A Sleeping Giant

[Catmandude123]

(12-30-2019, 10:17 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I'll have whatever you're drinking!

Seriously, I admire your optimism and that's the way my heart feels after every losing season but my brain tells me something different.  2-14 is horrific.  Bad.  Atrocious.  With this roster it's completely inexcusable.  The Bengals are far from being a playoff team and I respectfully disagree with you even though you made some really good points.  I wouldn't retain any coach or coordator except for those on special teams.  

However, we know how badly Mike Brown resists change.  I believe every coach is likely to be retained through 2020 -- and it will be up to the staff to come up with better play calling schemes on both sides of the ball.

Nine of the fourteen losses were by seven points or less. With our two first round picks and the rest of our 2020 draft picks joining the team and with The FO having millions to spend in free agency this team could turn around sooner than you think.

[Sled21]

Wasn't it the Falcons who went from 32nd to the Super Bowl in 1 season?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-30-2019, 12:24 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Nine of the fourteen losses were by seven points or less. With our two first round picks and the rest of our 2020 draft picks joining the team and with The FO having millions to spend in free agency this team could turn around sooner than you think.

It could. Really any team in the NFL can go worst to 1st.

We really need the coaching to improve. There is more talent here than the results show.

[jj22]

I saw some bright spots in the end there. The parts seem to have improved. They just need to come together. Sometimes the sum is better than the parts and that is a winning formula. Right now it looks like the parts are better than the sum. I'll wait for FA to see if the optimism is justified.

[treee]

I think we did see some good development in playcalling/scheming on both sides of the ball towards the end of the year. If we can get Burrow some good blocking and another good target to throw to then that would definitely be cause for some optimism and excitement.

[impactplaya]

This roster has as much talent as any other team In
The North.
But talent alone doesnt win games. Just ask the Browns.
I think coaching and injuries hampered this season.
The talent is here. But the coaching and schemes have to evolved

[bengals67]

If I owned an NFL team that had not won a playoff game in 30 years or whatever it is, and I had the chance to pick a potential franchise Superbowl winning QB like Burrows, the first thing I would do is hire a very experienced head coach or OC with a proven track record developing young QBs and who wanted to be at the team because they were excited about Burrows.
 

The next think I would do is make sure the young QB has at least an above average o line so he doesn't end up like Derek Carr. I would use draft and free agency.

I would also fire anyone involved in picking OG, Fisher or Price and make sure I got the best possible draft advice even if I had to hire a few more people to advise me.

And if the team I owned were the Bengals I would be sure to add at least one and possibly two high quality linebacker from the draft or free agency.

Having Burrows on a rookie QB contract gives them all the cash they need to substantially upgrade the o line and linebackers.

They have the money to hire a guy like McCarthy as head coach or Gruden as OC.

There really is no excuse not to do all of these things.

[Hammerstripes]

A few things:

1. The 3-4 defense doesn't really get all of our best players on the field. Geno Atkins is a poor fit for the 3-4 and Hubbard and Dunlap aren't ideal. That being said, I wouldn't oppose the move, since Lawson is our best pass rusher - by far. The other issue is that the base defense is really no longer a 3-4 or 4-3. It's nickel.

2. I could see this team IF everything fell right, getting back to 8-8 pretty quick. The biggest issue is health. IF Jonah and AJ Green are healthy next year (and Jonah is good), this team easily gets to 5-6 wins. If we hit on some draft picks and we add a decent free agent pick up, its not out of the question.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-30-2019, 12:40 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Wasn't it the Falcons who went from 32nd to the Super Bowl in 1 season?

No. Falcons have been to the SB two times.

The year before the first time they were 7-9.
The year before the second time they were 8-8.

(12-30-2019, 01:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: I saw some bright spots in the end there. The parts seem to have improved. They just need to come together. Sometimes the sum is better than the parts and that is a winning formula. Right now it looks like the parts are better than the sum. I'll wait for FA to see if the optimism is justified.

(12-30-2019, 01:42 PM)treee Wrote: I think we did see some good development in playcalling/scheming on both sides of the ball towards the end of the year. If we can get Burrow some good blocking and another good target to throw to then that would definitely be cause for some optimism and excitement.

Don't be fooled, you two. You thought you saw the Bengals playing better, but in reality you just saw the Bengals opponents being worse.

In the 1st half, the Bengals played 5 winning teams out of their 8 games.
In the 2nd half, the Bengals played 2 winning teams out of their 8 games.

The Bengals opponents in the 1st half finished with a record of 76-51-1. If you remove the Bengals that record becomes 66-51-1.
The Bengals opponents in the 2nd half finished with a record of 65-63. If you remove the Bengals that record becomes 58-61.

The only two games they played against winning teams in the 2nd half of they year, they lost by 49-13 and 34-13.

Looking better against the Browns, Jets, and Dolphins doesn't make much difference when you still get pasted by good teams.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-30-2019, 11:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I completely agree about a Safety (God, how I wanted Derwin James....) and believe Phillips is starting material, no way is our front 7 "excellent".  They might pass as average.  Last night, watching the 49ers play.  That is an excellent front 7.  Watching it made me depressed...they are light years beyond Cincy, and they are going to win it all this year...just watch.  They have the coach and the talent.

They commented about how they built that team from the defensive line....I hope the Bengals draft a stud DE to replace/push Carlos and then you have a rotation of Hubbard, Lawson, Dunlap, and said draft pick.  They also need a Frostee Rucker swing-type guy that can rush from inside.  I thought Hubbard would do more of that this year, but I didn't see it as much. 

Unrelated, but am I the only guy that thought at the end of the year that Hubbard and Dunlap looked about 20 lbs thinner than at preseason?  They looked downright skinny, especially in their arms?  Better nutrition?

You beat me to it Racer and I fully agree. In no way is our front 7 excellent. 

I'll go ahead and say it. Geno's better days are likely behind him. This has nothing to do with hate, Geno is one of my all time favs. But it's probably time to find his replacement and at a minimum rotate Geno a bunch. I have hope for Pratt but in no way am I convinced he's a stud LBer, yet ! 

We need help in the D front 7 and a good bit of it - period ! Worst defense in the NFL vs. run

[Catmandude123]

(12-30-2019, 02:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No. Falcons have been to the SB two times.

The year before the first time they were 7-9.
The year before the second time they were 8-8.



Don't be fooled, you two. You thought you saw the Bengals playing better, but in reality you just saw the Bengals opponents being worse.

In the 1st half, the Bengals played 5 winning teams out of their 8 games.
In the 2nd half, the Bengals played 2 winning teams out of their 8 games.

The Bengals opponents in the 1st half finished with a record of 76-51-1. If you remove the Bengals that record becomes 66-51-1.
The Bengals opponents in the 2nd half finished with a record of 65-63. If you remove the Bengals that record becomes 58-61.

The only two games they played against winning teams in the 2nd half of they year, they lost by 49-13 and 34-13.

Looking better against the Browns, Jets, and Dolphins doesn't make much difference when you still get pasted by good teams.

So you are saying all we have to do is beat the Majority of these "bad" teams and we are in the playoffs. BTW the first half of the season only has eight games so how can it change the total by ten? Your hate shows thru why not be a little optimistic? It doesn't cost a thing.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-30-2019, 02:42 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So you are saying all we have to do is beat the Majority of these "bad" teams and we are in the playoffs. BTW the first half of the season only has eight games so how can it change the total by ten? Your hate shows thru why not be a little optimistic? It doesn't cost a thing.

Because they played the Ravens and the Steelers, who both beat them twice.

Without the Bengals, the Ravens were 12-2, and the Steelers were 6-8. MATH!

- - - - - -

There's being optimistic, and then there's ignoring reality. This thread is full of the latter.

I don't mind some optimism, but ignoring the reality and calling this team a "sleeping giant" is how we passively end up with 4 more years of Zac Taylor calling 4th and short QB runs out of the shotgun, Andrew Billings dropping back into coverage, while Bobby Hart and Preston Brown get 3 year deals in FA, and draft Drew Sample in the 2nd round.

[*Synric*]

There are decent trade options for the Bengals. Andy of course if they can find a buyer. Cordy Glenn, John Ross, WJ3 or Dre, a Tagged AJ Green, Giovani Bernard if Mixon gets extended...

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-30-2019, 02:38 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You beat me to it Racer and I fully agree. In no way is our front 7 excellent. 

I'll go ahead and say it. Geno's better days are likely behind him. This has nothing to do with hate, Geno is one of my all time favs. But it's probably time to find his replacement and at a minimum rotate Geno a bunch. I have hope for Pratt but in no way am I convinced he's a stud LBer, yet ! 

We need help in the D front 7 and a good bit of it - period ! Worst defense in the NFL vs. run

Exactly, and I am not "hating" on guys like Geno, but pointing out that the unit as a whole has a long way to go.  Do I think a few key additions could make them very competitive?  Yes.  However, those additions would likely have to be free agents rather than hoping you draft and develop the right players exclusively.  We can all see what happens when you whiff on a few drafts.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-30-2019, 02:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No. Falcons have been to the SB two times.

The year before the first time they were 7-9.
The year before the second time they were 8-8.



Don't be fooled, you two. You thought you saw the Bengals playing better, but in reality you just saw the Bengals opponents being worse.

In the 1st half, the Bengals played 5 winning teams out of their 8 games.
In the 2nd half, the Bengals played 2 winning teams out of their 8 games.

The Bengals opponents in the 1st half finished with a record of 76-51-1. If you remove the Bengals that record becomes 66-51-1.
The Bengals opponents in the 2nd half finished with a record of 65-63. If you remove the Bengals that record becomes 58-61.

The only two games they played against winning teams in the 2nd half of they year, they lost by 49-13 and 34-13.

Looking better against the Browns, Jets, and Dolphins doesn't make much difference when you still get pasted by good teams.

Bingo !

I've argued this in many threads going back to the mother ship.

Many people get way to geeked up when we beat 4-12 teams. "Oh look the D is improving" even though we just played the 30th ranked offense or whatever.

"See the running game is fixed" But we just played the two worst run D's in the league. "Look at our QB go, he's got it back" again we just played two of the worst D's in the NFL against pass.

But if you go back and look at our record against the upper half of the NFL we're getting our butts handed to us way more often than not.

[samhain]

(12-30-2019, 03:38 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Bingo !

I've argued this in many threads going back to the mother ship.

Many people get way to geeked up when we beat 4-12 teams. "Oh look the D is improving" even though we just played the 30th ranked offense or whatever.

"See the running game is fixed" But we just played the two worst run D's in the league. "Look at our QB go, he's got it back" again we just played two of the worst D's in the NFL against pass.

But if you go back and look at our record against the upper half of the NFL we're getting our butts handed to us way more often than not.

Yeah, I'm as excited as anyone about potentially getting Burrow, and it's nice to see guys like Phillips and Pratt coming around.  Neither of those things should cause people to get confused about the state of this team.  They are shitty.  They need at minimum about 4-6 new starters to compete with the league's best, and that's being generous.  

Yesterday's victory was a gift and a curse.  It feels great to see Baker get humiliated and send Kitchens out the door.  It's nice to see Mixon stepping up as a leader/producer.  That's not enough though. 

Bengal fans are fooling themselves if they think that this is even close to a complete roster even with a couple of high draft picks.  Last year should serve as a reminder that those guys can't always be depended on, much like free agents.  

There is work to be done and a lot of it.  The question is whether the front office is going to be serious or if they'll just sit at home jacking their little weenuses during FA like they normally prefer to.  The new league year will be telling with regard to whether anything has changed with the new staff.  

They've been rewarded for sucking with the ability to draft a guy that will at the very least get fans excited about 2020.  He might even be as good as we think he is.  Will they Bungle it by leaning on Burrow to be the difference between 2019 and 2020, or will they give him a chance and build a legit roster?  Time will tell.

[*jason*]

(12-30-2019, 03:49 PM)samhain Wrote: Yeah, I'm as excited as anyone about potentially getting Burrow, and it's nice to see guys like Phillips and Pratt coming around.  Neither of those things should cause people to get confused about the state of this team.  They are shitty.  They need at minimum about 4-6 new starters to compete with the league's best, and that's being generous.  

Yesterday's victory was a gift and a curse.  It feels great to see Baker get humiliated and send Kitchens out the door.  It's nice to see Mixon stepping up as a leader/producer.  That's not enough though. 

Bengal fans are fooling themselves if they think that this is even close to a complete roster even with a couple of high draft picks.  Last year should serve as a reminder that those guys can't always be depended on, much like free agents.  

There is work to be done and a lot of it.  The question is whether the front office is going to be serious or if they'll just sit at home jacking their little weenuses during FA like they normally prefer to.  The new league year will be telling with regard to whether anything has changed with the new staff.  

They've been rewarded for sucking with the ability to draft a guy that will at the very least get fans excited about 2020.  He might even be as good as we think he is.  Will they Bungle it by leaning on Burrow to be the difference between 2019 and 2020, or will they give him a chance and build a legit roster?  Time will tell.

Shhhhhhhh!!!!

Don't poke the sleeping bear...

[Millhouse]

This team has a long ways to go to not only make the playoffs, but being competitive in the playoffs. A long ways to go.

So is this front office capable of getting the right pieces in place to get there sooner than later, if at all? I doubt it unless they themselves make internal changes.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-30-2019, 04:21 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This team has a long ways to go to not only make the playoffs, but being competitive in the playoffs. A long ways to go.

So is this front office capable of getting the right pieces in place to get there sooner than later, if at all? I doubt it unless they themselves make internal changes.

I don't think it does.

But they do need to get serious about Free Agents, and bring in some above average ones and take the pressure off of having to hit on to many draft picks in order to improve.

What I have learned about the NFL, it's easier and quicker to build a stout defense with FA's than it is an offense.  On D, if players play the same position in a scheme, it's a fairly fast learning curve. Offense, if it's the OL, then they need time to learn how the guys next to them and behind and behind them play, so takes longer, so it's better to draft those guys and let them grow together.  Of course they still need a vocal leader so might have to find one there to.

[GreenCornBengal]

Everyone jumping down the OPs throat... you do realize the 49ers were a measly 4-12 last year right?

They got their stud QB back and made some moves in free agency. Now they are 13-3 and the #1 seed.

It isn't unheard of for teams to turn it around quickly, especially when they get a top tier QB.

Look, we could techincally get a #1 overall QB, a top10 WR and a potentially top10 LT all back in one season change... That's a ton of potential uplift for next year.

We aren't as far off as a lot of us like to think.