Stop comparing Joe Burrow to Dalton

[Catmandude123]

(01-02-2020, 07:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Passing  coordinator Joe Brady just arrived this year.

Jamarr Chase and Terrace Marshall were freshmen last year (NOT 4th year 23 year old freshmen like Burrow)

That is when Burrow came there when they were freshmen . You stated he only became good when they got new WRs this year. Everyone on the offense was there in 2018 and 2019. Brady has never been more than an offensive assistant. He worked for the Saints in 17 and 2018. Maybe some  Brees rubbed off on him. Quit acting like he is some QB whisperer. Burrow earned every award he received this year.

[bengaloo]

(01-02-2020, 06:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: thats the worry.....  consistancy.. Hes had a great year this year.    But where was it before? will it be there after? or did all the stars just align for this season  for him

Burrow's JR stats are almost identical to Carson Palmer's except he ran for more yards than Carson. You can look it up. But he lead LSU to a 10-3 season and a BCS win and top 10 finish in 2018 in his first season as a starter. He finished the season with a 133 QBR. He didnt put up huge numbers like this season, but he was a very solid QB. Like you want to see with any player his age, is progression with more experience. This season for him was insane in that department.

[jj22]

(01-02-2020, 07:35 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Carson Palmer Senior Stats 3942 yards  33TD's  10INTs
Joe Burrow Senior Stats      5208 Yards  55 TDs  6INTs and Burrow has 1 more game to play.


Burrow did that against harder defenses than you'll find in the Pac12. Wentz numbers cant compare to either of those 2 guys so its not worth listing. I dont see how any one of those is more elite than the other coming out of college.

I'm with you. He can make all the throws, no doubt Burrow/Lamar rivalry will be this next generations Brady/Manning as far as I'm concerned. 

I just don't think he's a prospect like Palmer/Wentz/Cam/Luck that went first overall (or top two, I can't remember if it was Wentz or Goff now come to think of it). Those players had the physical traits scouts love. 5 star recruits. Physical traits Burrow is perceived to lack. But that doesn't make him less of a prospect. He's just got other things (everything) outside of the perceived physical traits that will make him a successful NFL QB in this league. Like a Dalton. Doesn't mean he'll be a Dalton.

Burrow will be fine though. He's gritty. He had to come up the hard way and compete. Nothing was handed to him on a silver platter. He was nobody's golden boy. A coaches son. Had the best season in college football ever. I'd take it.

Folks ain't going to usher Dalton out of here gracefully. Give the guy a break already. He never quit on us. And may have given a generation the best decade they were going to get until we lucked into the 1st overall pick (and almost blew that). The comparison isn't any insult.

[TheBengalsMind]

I'm completely miffed at the Dalton comparison, to the point that I'm sure the scout that was stupid enough to say this had to be on payroll for the Miami Dolphins.

There isn't a comparison, Andy Dalton's comparison is Jake Fromm. They might as well be brothers.

The excuses range from I don't like the fact that he did it when he was 23, I would of "felt" better had he had this exact same season at 21 and then gone pro.

Michael Jordan was 21 when he entered the NBA, if he had entered the NBA when he was 20, am I to believe that you think that would have made him a better prospect?

The it was all Joe Brady excuse makes very little sense to me, seeing as how Joe Brady has been in charge of designing a passing attack for all of THIS YEAR.

If this man, that had as many years designing a passing attack as everybody on this forum, before THIS YEAR, is so great why isn't he our coach right now?

Obviously this man is the 2nd coming of Bill Walsh and Paul Brown, make this man your head coach.

Also the "this offense has the best everything, even I could be successful with this talent." The hell you could, because if you could you'd be preparing to be a millionaire right now.

You know how many star recruit Justin Jefferson was? He was a 2-3 star recruit by most publications. He looks about 6'2 192 pounds to me. You know what his reported 40 yard dash is? 4.58-4.63 range.

If you look at his tape you'll find a WR that struggles to ever get separation against man-to-man coverage.

If all it takes is an offensive genius why didn't Jalen Hurts, who had Lincoln Riley, who some considered the greatest college offensive mind in the last decade, have a better year than Joe Burrow?

Why didn't Tua, who has more talent around him, have better numbers before his injury?

If LSU'S team was so immensely talented, why weren't they the preseason favorite to win it all?

In fact, if I remember correctly they were practically laughed out of the building on SEC media day, at the beginning of the year, when Joe Burrow told them he was going to lead the greatest college passing attack that they had ever seen.

If they were so immensely talented, why weren't they "this talented" last year. After all it's the same offense, minus Joe Brady.

Cause obviously, it's completely unbelievable that players can make huge improvements between their first year of major play to their second year of major playing time.

Also college is completely littered with players that had 3-4 years of great play and have gone on to lackluster careers in the NFL, don't believe me look at the top 50 college passing yards leaders of all time.

1 Case Keenum, 2 Timmy Chang, 3 Landry Jones, 4 Graham Harrell, 5 Ty Detmer, 6 Kellen Moore, 7 Baker Mayfield, 8 Luke Falk, 9 Colt Brennan, 10 Rakeem Cato, 11 Mason Rudolph, 12 Sean Mannion, 13 Brett Rypien, 14 Philip Rivers, 15 Corey Robinson, 16 Colt McCoy, 17 Aaron Murray, 18 Kevin Kolb, 19 Dan Lefevour, 20. Cooper Rush 21 Brandon Doughty, 22 Derek Carr, 23 Tim Rattay, 24 Ryan Lindley, 25 Luke McCown, 26 Chris Redman, 27 Chase Daniel, 28 Mason Fine, 29 Brent Stockstill, 30 Trevor Vittatoe, 31 Kliff Kingsbury, 32 Matt Barkley, 33 Jake Browning, 34 Jared Goff, 35 Drew Lock, 36 Zach Terrell, 37 Zac Dysert, 38 Nick Mullens, 39 Shane Carden, 40 Tajh Boyd, 41 Byron Leftwich, 42 Chase Holbrook, 43 Carson Palmer, 44 Drew Brees, 45 Brady Quinn, 46 Russell Wilson, 47 Dane Evans, 48 Geno Smith, 49 David Greene, 50 Gino Guidugli.

I see 3 HOF potential players as of now Russell Wilson, Drew Brees and Philip Rivers.

Besides the most talented QB in the draft is Jacob Eason, who's career highlight is getting injured at Georgia allowing Jake Fromm to start and the team immediately began playing better around Jake Fromm.

That whole situation reminded me of Doug Flutie and Rob Johnson. You had little 5'10 180 pound Doug Flutie and 6'4 215 pound Rob Johnson.

People were clamoring for the "rocket armed" Johnson, and you had little Doug Flutie who the team loved and everybody rallied behind. He could completely spark the team.

Rob Johnson could take or leave football, Doug Flutie lived for it. They decided to sit Flutie for the playoff game he had lead them to and start "rocket armed" Johnson and they lost.

[bengaloo]

(01-02-2020, 09:39 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm with you. He can make all the throws, no doubt Burrow/Lamar rivalry will be this next generations Brady/Manning as far as I'm concerned. 

I just don't think he's a prospect like Palmer/Wentz/Cam/Luck that went first overall (or top two, I can't remember if it was Wentz or Goff now come to think of it). Those players had the physical traits scouts love. 5 star recruits. Physical traits Burrow is perceived to lack. But that doesn't make him less of a prospect. He's just got other things (everything) outside of the perceived physical traits that will make him a successful NFL QB in this league. Like a Dalton. Doesn't mean he'll be a Dalton.

Burrow will be fine though. He's gritty. He had to come up the hard way and compete. Nothing was handed to him on a silver platter. He was nobody's golden boy. A coaches son. Had the best season in college football ever. I'd take it.

Folks ain't going to usher Dalton out of here gracefully. Give the guy a break already. He never quit on us. And may have given a generation the best decade they were going to get until we lucked into the 1st overall pick (and almost blew that). The comparison isn't any insult.

Yeah Luck was no brainer. I dont think anyone doubted how well he would do in the NFL without a doubt. He was the biggest to come out since Manning, and proved to be a "cant miss" pick. Carson, he was the absolute prototypical QB in terms of size, arm strength and brain power. I have no doubt about that. Burrow is a little smaller than Carson and probably cant stand flat footed and throw one as long. I was honestly for Chase Young big time until I watched 4 LSU games and just the way he plays grabbed my attention and he just reminds me of a Steve Young type just taller. Uncanny awareness and a real ability to extend plays and throw very accurate passes on the move. I love that about him. Love his demeanor too. He just seems like a leader who knows when to be more vocal and knows when to lead by example. Just strikes me as a really cool cat.

[GreenCornBengal]

"Stop comparing Joe Burrow to Dalton"

Goes on to compare Burrow to Dalton in detail.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 05:13 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Are the Bengals going to have a top 5 defense and good offensive line Burrow's first 5 years, like Dalton had?

And coaches like Zimmer and Gruden...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  
Coming into this season there was not a single publication that was singing the praises of Burrow.

Who cares? What are they saying about him NOW??

[*jason*]

(01-02-2020, 11:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Who cares? What are they saying about him NOW??

That he's like Dalton, but 2" taller?

Just pushing your buttons.

[Catmandude123]

The Dalton Gangers are lashing out like a dying rabid dog trying to protect their last bastion of Andyism.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2020, 11:26 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The Dalton Gangers are lashing out like a dying rabid dog trying to protect their last bastion of Andyism.

I mean, most of the more sensible ones actually do want Burrow. You just have a few that will never admit Dalton was part of the problem here. And then there’s Fred who argues just to argue. And what better stance could he take to be able to do so than knocking Joe Burrow?

[EatonFan]

(01-02-2020, 03:37 PM)Okeana Wrote: agreed.  I don't view Andy Dalton as a bad player and in the right system, he could be a huge upgrade.  The bears, for example, would be a perfect landing spot for Dalton.  Potential wise it's not comparable for the future of a team and I think Joe Burrow is a better prospect than Kyler Murray was last year.  So we need a future QB and we have a chance to get a guy with the best single-season in the history of CFB so what's the downside?  We really are fortunate to have the #1 pick this year.

That does seem like a good fit.

[Rubekahn29]

Truth is, we cannot predict the future. However, it will be a much easier pill to swallow if they pick Burrow and he's not this amazing all-star, than if they pass and he becomes to the NFL what he is in college now. It's not a can't-miss pick, but a must-take pick.

[Nicomo Cosca]

The Bears have made it clear they’re rolling with Trubisky next season.

[Joelist]

(01-02-2020, 08:03 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Burrow was not ranked as 1st rounder in the summer  in some rankings I found did not have him a 2nd roundet.  Fromm was ranked in 1st round coming into season with Tua and Herbert. And I would not want LSU history of QB drafted over last 15 years.. Russell.was a bust

Every ranking I looked at had Burrow in the first round mix, the later in the season the higher they had him. As to LSU it is important to remember that they changed the offense this season to one much more conducive to QB play. And all schools have QBs who fail in the NFL, and yes Jamarcus Russel is one but a lot of people saw that flop coming even before he was drafted - sadly for the Raiders they did not. 

[Socal Bengals fan]

What’s with the Dalton lovers doing everything they can to bring down Burrow. Wow can’t we prop up our next quarterback n enjoy his success for a bit. He’s time has past now let’s move onto Burrow if he starts sucking then we can move on from him until then let’s ride with Burrow and see where he takes us.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-03-2020, 02:14 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: What’s with the Dalton lovers doing everything they can to bring down Burrow. Wow can’t we prop up our next quarterback n enjoy his success for a bit. He’s time has past now let’s move onto Burrow if he starts sucking then we can move on from him until then let’s ride with Burrow and see where he takes us.

Lot of broken hearts in the Andy fan club these days. We were all supposed be eating crow right now after Dalton finally got his offensive minded coach and broke out proving it was Marvin holding him back the entire time, but alas...

They just want everyone to be as miserable as they are right now. That’s the problem when you’re so obsessed with one player you become a bigger fan of that one guy than you are of the team.

I’m a huge AJ Green fan, but I’m not going to sugarcoat his shortcomings here. He was injured a ton in recent years, didn’t have any real big playoff games for us, etc. At the point it’s time to move on from him (if it’s now or in a few years) I’m not going to instantly start shitting on the next guy just to prop AJ up. Same goes for Mixon and all my other favorites.

I’m a Bengals fan first. If you want to accuse me of rooting for the laundry, so be it. I really couldn’t care less if Dalton finds another starting job or has any success elsewhere. Sorry.

[Daddy-O]

(01-02-2020, 05:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: After 4 years in college he was the 10th ranked QB in the 14 team SEC.  Then he gets a new offensive coordinator and a couple of better receivers and suddenly he is the greatest college QB in years.

I just question how he could have improved his skills so much in one year after not doing it for 4 years.  I think a lot of his success is based on better receivers and schemes. 

So then based on your assessment Fred we shouldn't draft Burrow #1 when we're sitting on a 32-year old QB in the final year of his contract?

Of course there is not a multiple year sample size on the kid, but he is still the best QB prospect coming out in this years draft.  What better option do we have, let Dalton play out another year and somehow hope this team sucks to the tune of 2-14 again so we can draft Lawrence?  That's going to happen.

I don't respond to many of your posts as it always appears you just want to play devlis advocate to derail the original OPs thoughts.  Whether you agree or not.

[804 fan]

(01-02-2020, 03:34 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Whenever I see Burrow scrambling around avoiding the rush and making plays outside of the pocket.. I instantly think boy that looks like Andy Dalton out there.

Lol ,literally! I knew when I watched old Elway games of the 80s I was reminded of someone doing that now then it hit me ANDY DALTON LOL

[Daddy-O]

(01-02-2020, 06:59 PM)jj22 Wrote: Interesting you brought that up. I watched Herbert yesterday at 6'6 and they were swatting his balls (that didn't sound good) down left and right.

I watched him also.  Impressed with his running ability but not his throwing.  Granted didn't get to see much of him throughout the year being in the PAC-10.