Veteran Andy > Rookie Joe Burrow

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-04-2020, 10:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hopefully Burrow isn't an instant upgrade over Dalton in the same way that ZT was an instant upgrade over Marvin.

You must be rich. Where do you buy all your wet blankets from?

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-05-2020, 07:52 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Some of you now think Dalton is the 36th, or 30-whatever, best option as a starter moving forward because that's what his most recent stats say. I disagree.

I think he's of the same skill he has been for years, which is average, but still well above where you're placing him.

Since 2014, the "average" QB rating has been 90+. Dalton hasn't been there since 2016. And then, he was just right at it.
So he's been average to below to well below the last FOUR YEARS. 

[fredtoast]

(01-11-2020, 01:21 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Andy set a low bar for Burrow to surpass.

Dalton took a 4-12 bengal team to the playoffs his rookie year.

You think it is going to be easy for Burrow to surpass that?

[yellowxdiscipline]

(01-04-2020, 01:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, I've seen a lot of people list Joe Burrow has a huge upgrade for next year, when trying to make the case for vast improvement in 2020. Sorry guys, but that's not at all likely or probable.

Long-term, yeah we all think and hope that Burrow will be a upgrade. Hopefully a tremendous one. But year 1, right out of the gate, I'm not sure how or why this idea is floating around so much. Even more puzzling, it's often represented as a stone-cold fact. i.e. "We'll have Burrow next year so that's a reason for 2020 improvement."

Fwiw, I wanted to title this as greater or equal to, but that symbol escapes my tablet. But the equal to portion of the equation... that's the best case scenario in this comparison. The best case scenario for a rookie QB, and an oustanding season, is that of at or near an average starting QB in the NFL. Which is what Andy is.

None of this is to say that Burrow won't make some throws that Andy can't or didn't. I'm sure he can and will. And none of this is to say our offense can't or won't improve either. It very well may. And as a result Burrow very will cohld post significantly better numbers.

But as a position grade, or evaluation or comparison, with simply taking everything else out of the equation (OL, talent, coaching, etc.) I don't know how this argument is easily made, much less won.  If you want or choose to believe this team is going to see a significant amount of immediate improvemenf then I think you need to find reasons other than Burrow is already an upgrade.

I'm not even a big Andy fan, never have been. I've always considered him average.  And I'm excited about Burrow and the fact we're finally getting a potential elite level QB. I hope he is great someday.  I just don't expect that this year.

Well I mean you can't really compare a guy who's already established at a professional level vs a guy who is a unknown amateur. I haven't seen a whole lot of Burrow is an immediate upgrade arguments, i think a majority of us that want Burrow just want a fresh start with a guy who's arguably the best QB in the draft.

[fredtoast]

(01-12-2020, 02:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I just don't get where this comes from. It's not like people are going on about how drafting Burrow means the Bengals are going to the playoffs next year. 

No.  But based on your criticism of dalton your expectations are for perfection.  No matter how well dalton plays and how bad the rst of the team plays you always find one play in a game to pin the blame on Dalton for the loss. 

[fredtoast]

(01-12-2020, 03:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Since 2014, the "average" QB rating has been 90+. Dalton hasn't been there since 2016. And then, he was just right at it.
So he's been average to below to well below the last FOUR YEARS. 

But average is not 30th in the league.

[Junglejuice]

(01-12-2020, 03:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton took a 4-12 bengal team to the playoffs his rookie year.

You think it is going to be easy for Burrow to surpass that?

Not to mention the only string of multiple back to back winning seasons and playoffs appearances.
People forget that the Dalton era basically accounts for half of the franchises total play off appearances and winning seasons


I get it... people are ready for a change. I believe AD and the team both need it.
But to see everything the guy accomplished for the team glossed over like it always happens here is a joke.

[*bfine32*]

(01-12-2020, 03:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Since 2014, the "average" QB rating has been 90+. Dalton hasn't been there since 2016. And then, he was just right at it.
So he's been average to below to well below the last FOUR YEARS. 

From 2017-2019 only one QB in the NFL (of those that qualified) has had a passer rating below 90 every year. All the rest have either been replaced or got better. Calling 2019 Andy Dalton average is an insult to average. 

[Bengalitis]

(01-12-2020, 03:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton took a 4-12 bengal team to the playoffs his rookie year.

You think it is going to be easy for Burrow to surpass that?

Fortunately for Burrow, its comparing the Andy of today.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-12-2020, 03:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton took a 4-12 bengal team to the playoffs his rookie year.

You think it is going to be easy for Burrow to surpass that?

"Dalton took" is a pretty big stretch. Fred

We won a grand total of ONE game in 2011 against teams with a winning record, Titans. Both the Steelers and Ravens swept us ! 

Two of our wins were against the 4 win Browns. We beat the two win Colts ! The two win Rams, two of the other wins were against 5 and 6 win teams.

We played 7 games vs. playoff teams and lost every game.

The "team" benefited from a weaker schedule is more appropriate, don't ya think ?

[fredtoast]

(01-12-2020, 05:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: "Dalton took" is a pretty big stretch. Fred

We won a grand total of ONE game in 2011 against teams with a winning record, Titans. Both the Steelers and Ravens swept us ! 

Two of our wins were against the 4 win Browns. We beat the two win Colts ! The two win Rams, two of the other wins were against 5 and 6 win teams.

We played 7 games vs. playoff teams and lost every game.

The "team" benefited from a weaker schedule is more appropriate, don't ya think ?

So you are saying Burrow will do better as a rookie?

[Bengalholic]

(01-12-2020, 04:05 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: Not to mention the only string of multiple back to back winning seasons and playoffs appearances.
People forget that the Dalton era basically accounts for half of the franchises total play off appearances and winning seasons


I get it... people are ready for a change.  I believe AD and the team both need it.
But to see everything the guy accomplished for the team glossed over like it always happens here is a joke.

Personally, I give Andy a lot of credit for that 5 year run and feel like he deserves it. At the same time, if I'm going to do that and not be a hypocrite, I also have to acknowledge his share of blame for the past 4 years as well, and I think that's fair too.

I don't like when people give the QB all of the credit and none of the blame or vice versa. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-12-2020, 06:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying Burrow will do better as a rookie?

I'm saying Burrow will do no worse than last. That's where Andy ended this year. 

[Luvnit2]

(01-12-2020, 07:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm saying Burrow will do no worse than last. That's where Andy ended this year. 

If Burrow is only as good as AD was in 2019, he will be crucified.

That is my fear, this forum has very high expectations for any 1st round pick, but an overall #1 most will want much better than Dalton immediately.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-12-2020, 06:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you are saying Burrow will do better as a rookie?

Nope.

I'm just saying it's not like AD took the team on his back and carried them to victory like your "Dalton took" infers.

[*bfine32*]

(01-12-2020, 08:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If Burrow is only as good as AD was in 2019, he will be crucified.

That is my fear, this forum has very high expectations for any 1st round pick, but an overall #1 most will want much better than Dalton immediately.

Hell, a rookie Andy was better than 2019 Andy. I like Burrow's chances 

[Luvnit2]

(01-12-2020, 10:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, a rookie Andy was better than 2019 Andy. I like Burrow's chances 

I love his chances as well, especially if a healthy Green is back. That is 1000 yards and 8 TD;s better immediately.

I hope he takes us back to the playoffs, but in reality Burrow will not be compared to AD, he will be compared to Mahommes, Jackson and others since he is a #1 overall pick. He is supposed to be great.

[*jason*]

(01-12-2020, 10:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I love his chances as well, especially if a healthy Green is back. That is 1000 yards and 8 TD;s better immediately.

I hope he takes us back to the playoffs, but in reality Burrow will not be compared to AD, he will be compared to Mahommes, Jackson and others since he is a #1 overall pick. He is supposed to be great.

Neither Mahomes nor Lamar were number 1 picks. Burrow will have to do battle with the great legacies of Baker Mayfield and Jared Goff...

[fredtoast]

(01-12-2020, 10:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, a rookie Andy was better than 2019 Andy. I like Burrow's chances 

Meh, whatever.

You shit in my pocket I'll just cut my pants off.

[*jason*]

(01-07-2020, 05:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jackson won the Heisman and was drafted to replace Flacco.

Never heard of him...