So, what's wrong with Joe?

[fortyyearfan]

(01-14-2020, 02:23 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The way he has played all year, but especially the past few weeks have been franchise NFL QB talent.

I have only seem some with concerns with his coiming on late in 2018 and the one great year. That is a legit concern until you see his command on the field. He makes all the throws, manages the game well and is athletic.

We are lucky he will be available in 2020 draft. 

If we were drafting for biggest need with thw #1 pick, it would not be a QB. But, this is a no brainer and JB to me is a can't miss pick.

 
Hands down,and without a doubt,the Bengals HAVE to draft Joe B. Guys like him only come around every 10 years and he is the key piece to help us get right.I truly believe they will make the O-line right and this guy is going to light it up.Here we go. :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-14-2020, 05:04 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Herbert finally won his conference this year, but he didnt do anything in that game or any other to improve doubters. The truth is, Herbert shows some good stuff because hes tall with a cannon arm, but has also had plenty of wth moments. Hes very bad under pressure. He misses a lot of WRs and hes not that good at going through his progressions. When his OL kept him clean he would pick people apart. When his OL broke down, so did he. 4 years in a row this isnt just one year. The dude has been exactly the same with the same weaknesses in his game for too long. Hes the next Joey Harrington if you ask me.....

Think so too, not really impressed with Herbert. He might be alright but he is no Joe Burrow, not even close.

(01-14-2020, 05:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m just glad we have the 1st pick and don’t have to choose between a somewhat uninspiring Herbert or a huge health risk in Tua.

This was a great year to suck!

So true.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(01-14-2020, 11:28 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'm obviously in the minority and hope I'm not torn to shreds, but I'm still hesitant to go "all in" on Burrow.

Most of it has to do with the Bengals organization, the crap O-line, possibility that AJ & Mixon could be holding out through training camp, inexperienced coaching staff, etc. I've seen too many "can't miss" QBs fail over the years across the NFL and we simply don't know how he'll respond to everything. It's a coping mechanism from years of being a Bengals fan.

That said, if he performs as well as most of you think he will, he'll be the Lebron of Cincinnati.

I agree, but that's more an issue with the franchise than the player, and would be the case with literally any player we draft under this current management. 

Burrow is the man, if we go with anything else we'll be out of our minds. Completely out of them. He may turn out to be a bust, a one year wonder, a poor fit for this team... the lack of talent and O-Line may get him killed. But you don't not draft the guy due to those fears.

Wouldn't at all surprise me if we're here next year with another very high pick and a poor rookie year for Burrow, but the guy absolutely killed it this year with a ridiculous season. If we Bungle the guy, then so be it, we know the Franchise sucks and it'd be the same with any player.

[bengals67]

The Bengals absolutely must sign two solid o linemen in free agency and then use the remaining draft picks after burrow to get some linebackers and improve the D

Or visa versa.

Mike Brown is a complete idiot if he does not see this and does not invest the necessary funds ( which he has) to protect a player that can completely transform this team from Bungels to Bengals.

One other point - they need a proven offensive coordinator and/or QB coach to develop Burrow.  Bring back Gruden or someone on his level.

Mike Brown- time is running out on you and your franchise. This is a chance for a happy ending. Please don't screw around or half ass this.

[BRM13]

If you want to pick nits, I think the biggest one is his age.  He is much older than Lawrence.  He's even a year or two older than Lamar Jackson.  The reason this might matter is that I have read recently (The Athletic?) that QBs apparently take a big leap around age 23.  Burrow has already had his big leap.  Of course it was great one all the way to possibly the best QB season ever in college.  He doesn't really have to get a lot better; he just has to not get hurt.  If he was younger, there might still be one more 'growth spurt' in his game.  This is the real difference between Burrow and Lawrence.  Lawrence is more likely (but no sure thing) to get noticeably better than he is right now (e.g., improve touch, bring down high throws).

That said, they have to take Burrow #1.  Burrow's 'right now' is tremendous.  It has been amazing the past few games watching Burrow extend plays with his head up and throw accurately on the run.  He is also very good at slants and deep sideline throws (over the top, not out routes).  That accuracy is extremely valuable; I think he would kill in an NFL West Coast timing offense.  He isn't as fast as Kyler Murrary or Lamar Jackson, but he is plenty athletic enough to extend plays, pick up first downs, and generally distort defenses.   

Also, unlike our last two starting QBs, Palmer and Dalton, Burrow seems like a more classic team leader personality.  Considering how poorly this organization is run, locker room leaders are crucial (e.g., Whitworth or back when they last won a playoff game, Esiason).  Another thing I really like about Burrow is that he performed at an insanely high level in all his 'big' games. I don't know if this a real thing, but it seems like he has 'it' and his teammates respond to him.

[reuben.ahmed]

(01-14-2020, 12:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They actually explained his jump really well last night on the broadcast. Basically Orgeron came in this season and threw down a much larger playbook in front of Joe and “handed him the keys” so to speak.

That's nice but then you give the Bungles way too much credit to do the same with their inferior coaching staff and management. He'd look at the keys and say "this is the car I'm driving?"

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-14-2020, 05:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not asking people to discount it. I’m suggesting to give the majority of the credit where it belongs...THE PLAYER.

You can be an offensive genius but if you don’t have the guy capable of executing it it’s not enough.

This is correct and just because a the QB can play lights out in one system does not mean he can do the same in another. 




IF Burrow is a product of the system he won't have any success at the next level. If he is truly great the system won't matter. 

The question is what is he, a product of the system or simply a great QB? 

Until he plays within the Bengals system, if it doesn't change, we won't know if he a stud or simply a product of the system he was in at LSU. 

[*PhilHos*]

(01-14-2020, 06:12 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: This is correct and just because a the QB can play lights out in one system does not mean he can do the same in another. 




IF Burrow is a product of the system he won't have any success at the next level. If he is truly great the system won't matter. 

The question is what is he, a product of the system or simply a great QB? 

Until he plays within the Bengals system, if it doesn't change, we won't know if he a stud or simply a product of the system he was in at LSU. 

Which you can literally say about any and EVERY player in the draft. Even the most surefire, can't miss prospects sometimes turn out to be misses. So, unless your strategy is to not draft ANYONE or trade all draft picks for players who have already proven themselves in the NFL, what's your point?

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-14-2020, 06:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Which you can literally say about any and EVERY player in the draft. Even the most surefire, can't miss prospects sometimes turn out to be misses. So, unless your strategy is to not draft ANYONE or trade all draft picks for players who have already proven themselves in the NFL, what's your point?

This goes to my point earlier about drafting players that will fit the system. If a college teams uses a similar system those players have a higher chance of having success when they transition to the NFL. if the systems are not similar than they will have a hard time making that change. 

Andy Dalton got lucky when he became a Bengals; the systems used in his first 5 years were similar to what he had in college and it is why he was success early. Hue and Jay both used similar systems that played to his strengths. 

If the current offense is not setup similar to LSU, Burrow may not produce like many are expecting. Given that ZT already has a year under his belt I'm not sure if MB will give him a 3rd year as the HC if the teams starts off bad like they did this year. It wouldn't surprise me to see ZT headed out the door if the team goes 0-4 or 0-5. 

There are way to many variables that could impact the team. I'm not thinking one player will turn this team around. He is just one of 53 players needed. This does not include the offense or defense systems, coaches, etc... I'm not sold on the team current and future plans under the current coaching staff. I will wait and see how it plays out but given 2019, I'm not sold on it. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-14-2020, 09:18 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: He missed out on the all time accuracy record by 0.5%

So that means he's trash and can't hit the broad side of a barn.

That is a shame, as he had at least 4 balls that were perfectly placed, that the receivers simply did not make the catch.  A couple of good examples are the deep ball to the end zone, down the Left sideline.  I don't think many QBs can drop a ball in the basket as well as Joe did, it's just too bad that the receiver was looking the wrong direction.  Another was one of those quick release throws, where the slot man was wide open with room to run on a slant route from the right side.  I think the ball just bounced off the guy's chest.  Seems like there were a couple more good examples, but those two stuck out to me the most.

[lone bengal]

(01-14-2020, 05:32 PM)bengals67 Wrote: The Bengals absolutely must sign two solid o linemen in free agency and then use the remaining draft picks after burrow to get some linebackers and improve the D

Or visa versa.

Mike Brown is a complete idiot if he does not see this and does not invest the necessary funds ( which he has) to protect a player that can completely transform this team from Bungels to Bengals.

One other point - they need a proven offensive coordinator and/or QB coach to develop Burrow.  Bring back Gruden or someone on his level.

Mike Brown- time is running out on you and your franchise. This is a chance for a happy ending. Please don't screw around or half ass this.

Agree 100 % I don’t want Burrow to end up like Andrew Luck. I know everybody gets excited about skill players but good teams are built up front. My fear is the Bengals tag Green , give Mixon big money and sign a bunch of our own below average players and cry poor in free agency. There’s only one good free agent tackle in Jack Concklin from the Titians who the Bengals probably won’t overpay for. I know they don’t like to pay guards but there are some good young guards hitting the market in , Joe Tuney NE, Brandon Scherff Was , and Graham Glasgow Det.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-14-2020, 04:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't like when he was going through his Eminem phase

Thankfully, he seems to have grown past all of that.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-14-2020, 06:12 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: This is correct and just because a the QB can play lights out in one system does not mean he can do the same in another. 




IF Burrow is a product of the system he won't have any success at the next level. If he is truly great the system won't matter. 

The question is what is he, a product of the system or simply a great QB? 

Until he plays within the Bengals system, if it doesn't change, we won't know if he a stud or simply a product of the system he was in at LSU. 

Sometimes saying that a guys is a "product of the system" is accurate, like in the case of Johnny Football.  However, in other cases its just total bunk, made up by people that have no legitimate issues to knock a guy on.

In Joe Burrow's situation, it's literally impossible for him to have been a "system" guy.  Before he went to LSU, they had no wide-open offensive style.  They literally changed their entire offensive mind set at the time Joe came to town.   

[Luvnit2]

(01-14-2020, 06:12 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: This is correct and just because a the QB can play lights out in one system does not mean he can do the same in another. 




IF Burrow is a product of the system he won't have any success at the next level. If he is truly great the system won't matter. 

The question is what is he, a product of the system or simply a great QB? 

Until he plays within the Bengals system, if it doesn't change, we won't know if he a stud or simply a product of the system he was in at LSU. 

Isn't it the coaches job to create a great system for a great player like Burrow?

The Ravens revamped their entire offensive system for Jackson going from Flacco. I commend their changing it all for one player, it worked.

[*Synric*]

Joe Burrow with the 52 yard ? #LSUvsCLEM pic.twitter.com/woIarpVEiU

— Tim England (@tengland_150) January 14, 2020

This is just a straight up go ball. Joe Burrow freezes the Free safety with his eyes looking left comes back to the right and drops the ball in the bucket to Ja'Marr Chase. That's a route you see in every single NFL offense just like the slants slot fades crossers etc..Burrow is accurate throwing every route at every level of the field.

[ezekiel23]

I like Burrow for sure,He’s really even faster than I thought he was.That part sort of surprised me.Of course we all know that the Bengals will be getting offers to trade away their first round pick.

[ezekiel23]

Burrow’s release time on one of his passes last night was 2.1 secs.That’s fast.

[bengaloo]

(01-14-2020, 06:36 PM)MEBengalsFan Wrote: This goes to my point earlier about drafting players that will fit the system. If a college teams uses a similar system those players have a higher chance of having success when they transition to the NFL. if the systems are not similar than they will have a hard time making that change. 

Andy Dalton got lucky when he became a Bengals; the systems used in his first 5 years were similar to what he had in college and it is why he was success early. Hue and Jay both used similar systems that played to his strengths. 

If the current offense is not setup similar to LSU, Burrow may not produce like many are expecting. Given that ZT already has a year under his belt I'm not sure if MB will give him a 3rd year as the HC if the teams starts off bad like they did this year. It wouldn't surprise me to see ZT headed out the door if the team goes 0-4 or 0-5. 

There are way to many variables that could impact the team. I'm not thinking one player will turn this team around. He is just one of 53 players needed. This does not include the offense or defense systems, coaches, etc... I'm not sold on the team current and future plans under the current coaching staff. I will wait and see how it plays out but given 2019, I'm not sold on it. 

Any concerns you have about Joe being a system QB could be multiplied by 100 when talking about Herbert. Tua not so much but hes too injured to even be in the #1 pick conversation. And hes no Joe Burrow either imo lol.

[kevin]

(01-14-2020, 04:37 PM)Joelist Wrote: Herbert = Oregon means auto DQ

Burrow is the obvious #1 overall. Especially with the injury to Tua.

Herbert will be drafted by Dairy Queen  ?

OK, dumb joke aside,  here is another reason Mike Brown should want Joe Burrow.  TICKET SALES.  Besides no wins, the Bengals have many empty seats, Too Many.   Joe Heisman will SELL TICKETS and probably be the #1 selling NFL jersey going into season.  Another reason they should give him # 9 that he has worn at LSU.    That he is from Ohio and has local fans already won't hurt TICKET SALES either.   

This is Pro Football so MONEY is a factor.  Not that it isn't a factor in college.   The word PRO means MONEY.  Mike Brown has one very empty stadium on the banks of the mighty Ohio.  Lets face it, Burrow is going to sell more tickets this off season than Herbert would.  

So just take Burrow and use next weeks Senior Bowl to look at a Blocker top of 2 and a 4-3 LB top of 3.   I say the Blocker first because just as The Mean Machine in The Longest Yard,  PROTECT THE SUPERSTAR.  Plus that Blocker will help Mixon also.  Drafting first in 2 and 3 should bring us a 1st round talent Blocker and a 2nd round talent Linebacker to add to Heisman Burrow.   There are very good Blockers and Linebackers at this Senior Bowl to FOCUS on, with Pick #1 pretty much locked in now.  Such as Wanogho and Dye.  With the unwrapped package of Alabama Blocker Jonah Williams still under the Christmas Tree from last years draft, if they add a Blocker top pick in 2 this year, we might just start having some Blocking for Burrow and Mixon. 2 Bookend Top Pick Tackles from Alabama and Auburn blocking for LSU Heisman QB and Mixon sound right to me. Again that top pick in 2 is pretty much an extra round 1 and good place to get a Blocker. Joe B and Joe M could be exciting if we get some Blocking.

Now one thing Mike Browns bald little head loves is Money, and Joe Burrow is the fastest way to fill all the empty seats. 

[J24]

(01-14-2020, 11:36 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s had a far better college career, and has great mobility and athleticism. He’s nothing like Carson Palmer.

Both kinda came out of know where their respective Senior years and Carson was pretty Athletic in 2003. Dude ran 4.65 40  AT 232 pounds.