Veteran Andy > Rookie Joe Burrow

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-12-2020, 03:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  But based on your criticism of dalton your expectations are for perfection.  No matter how well dalton plays and how bad the rst of the team plays you always find one play in a game to pin the blame on Dalton for the loss. 

Wrong again.

[BengalChris]

(01-04-2020, 02:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Andy won 2 freaking games this season.

If Burrow wins a handful next season that’s already a huge upgrade.

2019 was Andy's worst year by far. He also had the worst coaching this team has seen in over a decade. Andy had 5 wins in 9 games in 2018 before being lost for the season and the team was basically the same team, except for coaches.

I'm not seeing how this coaching staff is going to develop a young QB when they could only make Andy worse.

 

[*Nately120*]

(01-12-2020, 02:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You must be rich. Where do you buy all your wet blankets from?

I was prescribed many wet blankets by my psychiatrist after my insane optimism about the 2019 season.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 07:05 AM)BengalChris Wrote: 2019 was Andy's worst year by far. He also had the worst coaching this team has seen in over a decade. Andy had 5 wins in 9 games in 2018 before being lost for the season and the team was basically the same team, except for coaches.

I'm not seeing how this coaching staff is going to develop a young QB when they could only make Andy worse.

 

It was not basically the same team. AJ Green was a part of those 5 wins you’re mentioning.

We also didn’t have half a dozen different starters at LT the year before.

[J24]

If the Defense and Running game play like they did at the end of the season next year then Burrow will be suçcessfull.

[EastCoastBengal]

Lock this thread please.
Burrow finished the game with 463 yards on 31-of-49 passing, totalling six touchdowns (five passing) with no turnovers against the reigning champs and best defense in CFB. If you want to talk about the game prior to that we can. Andy hasn't scored as many TD's as Joe did in one year than he has in 3.
Most pass yards in 2-game CFP (956, Burrow)
Most pass TD in 2-game CFP (12, Burrow)
Most Pass TD in a season in FBS history
Most TD responsible for in a season in FBS history
Most TD responsible for in a BCS/CFP title game
Most pass yards in a BCS/CFP title game

[HuDey]

To the OP, what you are saying is logical but by no means is it a given in this situation. In other words, I wouldn't bet anything that I didn't want to lose on it.

[BengalChris]

(01-13-2020, 12:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It was not basically the same team. AJ Green was a part of those 5 wins you’re mentioning.

We also didn’t have half a dozen different starters at LT the year before.

AJ Green was definitely a factor, but still the defense was largely the same and on offense there were the same RBs, add Eifert back at TE, Ross had his lone career wonder game, the OL was very crappy both years. The differences weren't enough to make the team sink to 2 wins, especially when you consider it had Andy all year instead of Driskel for 6 games.

The 2019 Bengals shot their wad in that first game against Seattle, then they claimed moral victory. After that they moral victoried themselves through the season, at least that's what it seemed like.

I'm just saying that the coaching was definitely worse. Andy had several decent games without AJ in the past.

There's really no reason why Andy cannot play at his 2015 level again given the right circumstances. But I don't see the Bengals creating those same circumstances though.

Since we are stuck with Taylor for probably a minimum of 2 more years I'll have to root for him to become a man and get out of his coaching diapers this off-season.

By the way, I hope Burrow comes out and sets the world on fire and throws 50 TDs next season. But I wouldn't lay a dime on that happening. College defenses are no where near as fast or as good as those in the NFL. He'll have a lot more to account for and learn. Even if Burrow has it in him to do that, I don't believe Taylor does.

[EastCoastBengal]

Lock this thread, burn it in a very large fire with anything with Hue Jackson or Marvin Lewis face or name on it. (throw in disgraced son of Paul Brown memorabilia into the fire as well)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-12-2020, 10:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, a rookie Andy was better than 2019 Andy. I like Burrow's chances 

True and I like Burrow's chances as well. Think you will finally have a QB that you really like in stripes Bfine lol

[TheCincinnatiKid]

The OP's post makes sense to me. While on paper Burrow is a huge upgrade on Andy, it's very possible it won't show one year in. Rookie QB's often have bad seasons, and Burrow is joining a really bad team. I'd be appalled if our record is as bad next year, but tbh I'd be pretty surprised if we go much over 5-11, we're just a poor roster. If we do, likelihood is we've had one heck of a Draft/FA and fixed a lot of our issues, or Burrow really is the freakin man.

Am I hoping Burrow is better next year than Andy was this year? No crap. Will I be shocked if he isn't? Not really, Rookie QB's don't usually come in a light everybody up. Will it mean he's a bust etc if he doesn't provide an immediate upgrade over veteran Andy? No. We all hope he comes in and is a top 10 QB in year 1, but best thing the fanbase can do is give the kid a lot of time.

[Catmandude123]

(01-12-2020, 04:05 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: Not to mention the only string of multiple back to back winning seasons and playoffs appearances.
People forget that the Dalton era basically accounts for half of the franchises total play off appearances and winning seasons


I get it... people are ready for a change.  I believe AD and the team both need it.
But to see everything the guy accomplished for the team glossed over like it always happens here is a joke.

Why is it the Dalton era when things went well but everyone else's fault for the bad years? Couldn't it be the AJ years? 

[Catmandude123]

(01-11-2020, 11:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Tghis is a perfect example of the difference between being critical of andy and being a troll.

Dalton had 418 passing yards, both tds, and a 106.5 passer rating.

The o-line allowed 5 sacks and produced just 34 rushing yards.

Without Dalton that game would not have been close, yet Cat blames him for the loss.

Winning is the object of the game. When you do something at a critical time that causes a loss it doesn't really matter what you did the other minutes of the game . Throwing three ints within one minute including a pick six also nullifies what happened in the other 59 minutes. Winners rise to the occasion and Dalton has proved he can't push the team over the top. While I know you will cite Andy's come back wins the fact remains he fails time and again when the lights are brightest. If you consider me a troll because I don't agree with you and the rest of the Dalton Gang then I will wear the badge proudly. It's pretty obvious Andy is done in Cincinnati and Burrow is the next one up. Time will tell who is right or wrong but the fact remains that Dalton was given nine years to succeed. His play has dropped off and its time to move on.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-15-2020, 08:17 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: The OP's post makes sense to me. While on paper Burrow is a huge upgrade on Andy, it's very possible it won't show one year in. Rookie QB's often have bad seasons, and Burrow is joining a really bad team. I'd be appalled if our record is as bad next year, but tbh I'd be pretty surprised if we go much over 5-11, we're just a poor roster. If we do, likelihood is we've had one heck of a Draft/FA and fixed a lot of our issues, or Burrow really is the freakin man.

Am I hoping Burrow is better next year than Andy was this year? No crap. Will I be shocked if he isn't? Not really, Rookie QB's don't usually come in a light everybody up. Will it mean he's a bust etc if he doesn't provide an immediate upgrade over veteran Andy? No. We all hope he comes in and is a top 10 QB in year 1, but best thing the fanbase can do is give the kid a lot of time.

Disagree, we have a good roster. Just need to add Lineman, LB's and some weapons.

With our cap space and the Draft we can do this easily. We can win 9 games next season if we do this IMO.

Especially with Burrow.

Rookie QB's have been playing pretty well recently. Heck Dalton played good as a rookie and he ain't no Burrow.

[*Synric*]

Tom Brady is selling his New England home...now he's saying he plans to hit free agency and talk to teams. It's possible he isnt getting any love from the Patriots FO....

More fuel for the Dalton to Patriots trade?!?!

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-prepared-to-meet-with-teams-other-than-the-patriots-in-2020-free-agency/amp/
https://nypost.com/2019/08/12/tom-brady-explains-why-hes-selling-his-new-england-mansion/

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(01-19-2020, 03:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Disagree, we have a good roster. Just need to add Lineman, LB's and some weapons.

With our cap space and the Draft we can do this easily. We can win 9 games next season if we do this IMO.

Especially with Burrow.

Rookie QB's have been playing pretty well recently. Heck Dalton played good as a rookie and he ain't no Burrow.

More optimistic than I am about our roster! I of course, hope you're right and I'm wrong but I think we have more holes than that. If we make no moves on the O-Line then I'll be massively disappointed.

An aggressive use of Cap can turn that around, but that is hardly what the Bengals do. They have in a few recent drafts (last decade or so) nailed it though so that's possible.

I actually think Burrow has some good targets to throw to. Depends on the likes to Eifert/Green though. No valid replacement on either front (if we lose them) and its a much weaker receiving cast.

Dalton did do well, but as has been said elsewhere he inherited a better roster than Burrow likely will. We did go 4-11-1 the year before sure, but that record was a massive letdown as most expected a ton better from the roster we had at the time. Rookie QB's have done alright sure, but other than something like Mark Sanchez no Rookie QB is the finished product in their prime.

Either way I hope he kills it, but if Burrow is poor in Year 1 im not too fussed. No rookie QB has ever gone to the promised land and I don't think next years Bengals are doing it. His progression in Years 2/3 and beyond are far more important than his stats will be next year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-19-2020, 03:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Tom Brady is selling his New England home...now he's saying he plans to hit free agency and talk to teams. It's possible he isnt getting any love from the Patriots FO....

More fuel for the Dalton to Patriots trade?!?!

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tom-brady-prepared-to-meet-with-teams-other-than-the-patriots-in-2020-free-agency/amp/
https://nypost.com/2019/08/12/tom-brady-explains-why-hes-selling-his-new-england-mansion/

They will be desperate man if Brady leaves. Ask for a 2nd or 3rd and we hand Dalton over to them.

(01-19-2020, 04:00 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: More optimistic than I am about our roster! I of course, hope you're right and I'm wrong but I think we have more holes than that. If we make no moves on the O-Line then I'll be massively disappointed.

An aggressive use of Cap can turn that around, but that is hardly what the Bengals do. They have in a few recent drafts (last decade or so) nailed it though so that's possible.

I actually think Burrow has some good targets to throw to. Depends on the likes to Eifert/Green though. No valid replacement on either front (if we lose them) and its a much weaker receiving cast.

Dalton did do well, but as has been said elsewhere he inherited a better roster than Burrow likely will. We did go 4-11-1 the year before sure, but that record was a massive letdown as most expected a ton better from the roster we had at the time. Rookie QB's have done alright sure, but other than something like Mark Sanchez no Rookie QB is the finished product in their prime.

Either way I hope he kills it, but if Burrow is poor in Year 1 im not too fussed. No rookie QB has ever gone to the promised land and I don't think next years Bengals are doing it. His progression in Years 2/3 and beyond are far more important than his stats will be next year.

I mean, we have a good D-line and talented Secondary on Defense. We have a good young LB'er in Germaine Pratt who should 
grow into a very good Linebacker and LB's have been the biggest problem with our Defense. On Offense the O-line just needs to 
get shored up and we have the dough to take care both the O-line and the LB's in FA and re-sign guys like Dennard, Mixon, Billings
and even Green if he is healthy and takes a contract that considers his injury history. Eifert too.

Amari Cooper is out there and a bunch of TE's that would be upgrades as well. We have like 86 mil in cap space if we trade Andy
which is likely in my eyes especially after just hearing of Brady selling his house and planning to hit FA. I expect us to spend some
dough this year for once since we are going to get a new QB, we did when Palmer came in, we should again.

Honestly, I would rather move on from Green and Eifert cause of the injuries and get some players like Cooper and Ebron to 
replace them with their injury history. I know Eifert stayed healthy last year but he was clearly a shadow of his 2015 self cause 
of all the injuries.

In FA - Thuney G, Jamie Collins LB, Cooper WR, Ebron TE = heck of a start then draft Burrow and a RT next.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-19-2020, 03:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Disagree, we have a good roster. Just need to add Lineman, LB's and some weapons.

With our cap space and the Draft we can do this easily. We can win 9 games next season if we do this IMO.

Especially with Burrow.

Rookie QB's have been playing pretty well recently. Heck Dalton played good as a rookie and he ain't no Burrow.

LOL  Is that all?!?

Yeah but Dalton had Green, even though a rookie, was a field stretched and a super-talented threat...  not an aged and oft injured Green.

Dalton had a lot of better things than Burrow currently is walking into.

Now a successful draft and a decent attempt at Free Agency could even it up some.

Even still, he had better coaching too.

[Shake n Blake]

People bringing up Dalton's last 4 years as if that proves something need to check out the season Ryan Tannehill just had. Sometimes a bad situation makes a QB look bad. Heck, look at CP's last 2 years as a Bengal and compare that to when he landed in Arizona.

Seems like common sense, but I guess common sense goes out the window when you have an intense hatred for something.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 05:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: People bringing up Dalton's last 4 years as if that proves something need to check out the season Ryan Tannehill just had. Sometimes a bad situation makes a QB look bad. Heck, look at CP's last 2 years as a Bengal and compare that to when he landed in Arizona.

Seems like common sense, but I guess common sense goes out the window when you have an intense hatred for something.

I get it hurt losing a hero, but no need to claim folks have no common sense and are only motivated by hatred. Andy Dalton has not had a better season that Tannehill sense 2015. Given Tannehill was injured in 2017, but I'd go out on a limb and say he would have beat Andy's rating of 86.6.; as he hasn't had a season lower than that since 2013. 

Hell, sometimes bad QB play makes a QB look bad.