Veteran Andy > Rookie Joe Burrow

[Shake n Blake]

(01-19-2020, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I get it hurt losing a hero, but no need to claim folks have no common sense and are only motivated by hatred. Andy Dalton has not had a better season that Tannehill sense 2015. Given Tannehill was injured in 2017, but I'd go out on a limb and say he would have beat Andy's rating of 86.6.; as he hasn't had a season lower than that since 2013. 

Hell, sometimes bad QB play makes a QB look bad. 

Not hurt dude. Actually pretty excited about the future tbh.

Regardless of how bfine sees it, most people viewed Tannehill as a failed QB in Miami. Heck, Miami viewed him that way. He goes to Tennessee and has a career year. When asked what he changed, he said "nothing...I'm the same QB I've been".

Point is that a bad team can make a solid QB look bad. History has shown us this many many times. I could show you a list a mile long, but you'd just ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative. We'll see soon enough if Dalton winds up landing in a place like New England or Chicago.

[*Synric*]

Joe Burrow mentioned he was going out to California to train for the Combine...I wonder if he's going to work with Jordan Palmer.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-19-2020, 05:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Not hurt dude. Actually pretty excited about the future tbh.

Regardless of how bfine sees it, most people viewed Tannehill as a failed QB in Miami. Heck, Miami viewed him that way. He goes to Tennessee and has a career year. When asked what he changed, he said "nothing...I'm the same QB I've been".

Point is that a bad team can make a solid QB look bad. History has shown us this many many times. I could show you a list a mile long, but you'd just ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative. We'll see soon enough if Dalton winds up landing in a place like New England or Chicago.

What I find incredibly strange is that despite being one of Dalton's most vocal critics, Bfine is one of the only people who want him back. And not only does he want him back, he wants him to start, with Burrow "eventually" taking over.

Guy goes around going out of his way to try to convince people Dalton is the worst starter in the league yet wants him to pay him 18mil next year. And he has the nerve to accuse others of being "hurt" for trying to make the simple case his 2019 season was an anomaly.

It's bananas. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 06:30 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What I find incredibly strange is that despite being one of Dalton's most vocal critics, Bfine is one of the only people who want him back. And not only does he want him back, he wants him to start, with Burrow "eventually" taking over.

Guy goes around going out of his way to try to convince people Dalton is the worst starter in the league yet wants him to pay him 18mil next year. And he has the nerve to accuse others of being "hurt" for trying to make the simple case his 2019 season was an anomaly.

It's bananas. 

I do not want Andy Dalton to start; I do want him to be a part of the investment for our future QB. If pointing out that he was the worst rated starter in the NFL last year is "going out of my way" to convince folks Andy was the worst starter in the league last year; then guilty as charged. 

I'm not the one that will be paying Andy Dalton $18 mil next year. 2019 was not an anomaly; he was 26th the year prior, it's called a trend. I agree it's bananas. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 05:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Not hurt dude. Actually pretty excited about the future tbh.

Regardless of how bfine sees it, most people viewed Tannehill as a failed QB in Miami. Heck, Miami viewed him that way. He goes to Tennessee and has a career year. When asked what he changed, he said "nothing...I'm the same QB I've been".

Point is that a bad team can make a solid QB look bad. History has shown us this many many times. I could show you a list a mile long, but you'd just ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative. We'll see soon enough if Dalton winds up landing in a place like New England or Chicago.

Perhaps if NE or CHI are desperate we will see. We already saw how he excelled after he got an offensive-minded coach to work under instead of Marvin. I was told that was the problem. 

[*jason*]

(01-19-2020, 07:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not want Andy Dalton to start; I do want him to be a part of the investment for our future QB. If pointing out that he was the worst rated starter in the NFL last year is "going out of my way" to convince folks Andy was the worst starter in the league last year; then guilty as charged. 

I'm not the one that will be paying Andy Dalton $18 mil next year. 2019 was not an anomaly; he was 26th the year prior, it's called a trend. I agree it's bananas. 

It's the coaching staff's job to be part of the "investment for our future QB". They'll do it without the crazy 17 or 18 million salary cap hit. There are so many journeyman QBs that could be brought in to "help" Joe Burrow for peanuts. It makes zero since to keep Andy Dalton around for that reason.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 07:55 PM)jason Wrote: It's the coaching staff's job to be part of the "investment for our future QB". They'll do it without the crazy 17 or 18 million salary cap hit. There are so many journeyman QBs that could be brought in to "help" Joe Burrow for peanuts. It makes zero since to keep Andy Dalton around for that reason.

Why? Not only can Andy help out as a mentor; he'd be one of the better back ups in the NFL. Why is everyone so concerned about Mikey's pocketbook? 

[*jason*]

(01-19-2020, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why? Not only can Andy help out as a mentor; he'd be one of the better back ups in the NFL. Why is everyone so concerned about Mikey's pocketbook? 

Because maybe that old buffoon could sign a guard or lb or anybody with that money. Brian Hoyer can "mentor" for much less. On top of that; you don't keep your ex wife around to show the new gal how to fold your drawls. It's unnecessary tension.

[Bengalholic]

(01-19-2020, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why? Not only can Andy help out as a mentor; he'd be one of the better back ups in the NFL. Why is everyone so concerned about Mikey's pocketbook? 

There's no way Andy would be OK with being forced to remain on the team as a backup. Just look at his reaction after being benched and then not given time to explore a trade. It's as upset as I've ever seen him.

Why create tension where there doesn't need to be any? It would make much more sense to trade Andy for the best deal you can get and then bring in a vet like Matt Moore, who's played for Zac before.

[Catmandude123]

(01-19-2020, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why? Not only can Andy help out as a mentor; he'd be one of the better back ups in the NFL. Why is everyone so concerned about Mikey's pocketbook? 

Who would help the team more a 18mil backup QB or another position of need? Keeping Dalton could cause locker room problems because of players who are loyal to him. Get another veteran on the cheap and move on.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 08:00 PM)jason Wrote: Because maybe that old buffoon could sign a guard or lb or anybody with that money. Brian Hoyer can "mentor" for much less. On top of that; you don't keep your ex wife around to show the new gal how to fold your drawls. It's unnecessary tension.

(01-19-2020, 08:03 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: There's no way Andy would be OK with being forced to remain on the team as a backup.  Just look at his reaction after being benched and then not given time to explore a trade. Why create tension where there doesn't need to be any?

It would make much more sense to trade Andy for the best deal you can get and then bring in a vet like Matt Moore, who's played for Zac before.

So we should trade Andy because he'll be mad if we don't? It's makes "no more sense" to bring in any other QB that has no worked with this offensive staff/personnel. 

We can keep Andy and hope he acts like a professional until his contract expires or we can make a move to make the team worse. 

[*jason*]

(01-19-2020, 08:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So we should trade Andy because he'll be mad if we don't? It's makes "no more sense" to bring in any other QB that has no worked with this offensive staff/personnel. 

We can keep Andy and hope he acts like a professional until his contract expires or we can make a move to make the team worse. 

The money saved is the biggest factor for me. You're right; it is Mickey's money, and he may pocket it, but at least there's an opportunity to bring in tangible help on the field with that money.

[*Synric*]

(01-19-2020, 08:03 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: There's no way Andy would be OK with being forced to remain on the team as a backup.  Just look at his reaction after being benched and then not given time to explore a trade. It's as upset as I've ever seen him.

Why create tension where there doesn't need to be any? It would make much more sense to trade Andy for the best deal you can get and then bring in a vet like Matt Moore, who's played for Zac before.

(01-19-2020, 08:09 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Who would help the team more a 18mil backup QB or another position of need? Keeping Dalton could cause locker room problems because of players who are loyal to him. Get another veteran on the cheap and move on.

Agreed.

Andy's contract was set up specifically for this eventuality. There is no reason to tie up almost 10% of the salary cap to a back up for mentor purposes when you can use that money to gain a solid starter or even two. Even just releasing him would be the smart move over keeping him.

If you want a veteran backup why not go after Case Keenum or Colt McCoy. Either one gives you that veteran experience holding the "clipboard" and would be significantly cheaper options.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 08:13 PM)jason Wrote: The money saved is the biggest factor for me. You're right; it is Mickey's money, and he may pocket it, but at least there's an opportunity to bring in tangible help on the field with that money.

Cut Dre we save $11 Mil and we have better CBs on the team. Andy is the best backup QB on this team. 

[Bengalholic]

(01-19-2020, 08:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So we should trade Andy because he'll be mad if we don't? It's makes "no more sense" to bring in any other QB that has no worked with this offensive staff/personnel. 

We can keep Andy and hope he acts like a professional until his contract expires or we can make a move to make the team worse. 

By trading Andy, you get at least one extra draft pick, save almost 18m that can be invested in other areas and can eliminate any possible tension that forcing him to be a backup could cause.

By keeping Andy, you don't get an extra pick, you don't have the extra money that could go somewhere else and you're purposefully keeping a guy who's given 9 years to your organization from having a chance to start on another team. 

Seems like an easy choice to me.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 08:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: By trading Andy, you get at least one extra draft pick, save almost 18m that can be invested in other areas and can eliminate any possible tension that forcing him to be a backup could cause.

By keeping Andy, you don't get an extra pick, you don't have the extra money that could go somewhere else and you're purposefully keeping a guy who's given 9 years to your organization from having a chance to start on another team. 

Seems like an easy choice to me.

Why do folks think a team will give up a draft choice of any value for Andy? "18 mil is a lot of money, but (insert team) will give up at least a 2nd rounder for him". 

You make it seem as if the team owes Andy; was that your intent? 

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-19-2020, 07:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not want Andy Dalton to start; I do want him to be a part of the investment for our future QB. If pointing out that he was the worst rated starter in the NFL last year is "going out of my way" to convince folks Andy was the worst starter in the league last year; then guilty as charged. 

I'm not the one that will be paying Andy Dalton $18 mil next year. 2019 was not an anomaly; he was 26th the year prior, it's called a trend. I agree it's bananas. 

I have to agree with Wes here bfine. For a guy who's wanted Dalton gone since like 2013 it's strange you're one of the very few that wants him kept around. 

What is Dalton really going to do that another (much cheaper) vet couldn't do ? It's not like AD has been in ZT's system for years. And we need veteran free agent help in so many places. 

Now what will upset me is if they trade away Dalton or just cut him then sit on their hands in free agency.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2020, 08:30 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I have to agree with Wes here bfine. For a guy who's wanted Dalton gone since like 2013 it's strange you're one of the very few that wants him kept around. 

What is Dalton really going to do that another (much cheaper) vet couldn't do ? It's not like AD has been in ZT's system for years. And we need veteran free agent help in so many places. 

Now what will upset me is if they trade away Dalton or just cut him then sit on their hands in free agency.

He knows the personnel. 

I would ask anyone to show me where I've wanted Andy gone. I've simply evaluated him on his play. He can be an asset to us and this year can help us for over a decade, but folks want to part with Andy to save Mike Brown a few bucks. 

[Bengalholic]

(01-19-2020, 08:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do folks think a team will give up a draft choice of any value for Andy? "18 mil is a lot of money, but (insert team) will give up at least a 2nd rounder for him". 

You make it seem as if the team owes Andy; was that your intent? 

As to the draft pick, I don't care if it's a 5th rounder if they find a team willing to trade for him. If they can't trade him, then just cut him and save the 18m to use elsewhere. 

As far as owing Andy...it's not as much about owing him anything as it is about not purposely disrespecting the guy by forcing him to be a backup and preventing him from exploring other opportunities once you've moved on to a new starter. 

Again, it doesn't seem that difficult of a decision.

[Bengalholic]

(01-19-2020, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He knows the personnel. 

I would ask anyone to show me where I've wanted Andy gone. I've simply evaluated him on his play. He can be an asset to us and this year can help us for over a decade, but folks want to part with Andy to save Mike Brown a few bucks. 

You have went out of your way to say how bad he is, yet you want them to pay him 18m to ride the pine?