Rolling over money under new CBA

[fredtoast]

I heard where there may not be any money "rolled over" to 2021 because there will be new rules under a new CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement).

A lot of people here complain about the Bengals rolling over money every year, but the fact is that some teams did not roll it over every year like the Bengals. And some years the Bengals actually spent OVER the league salary cap because they had cap space to roll over. So I have never panicked about rolling over cap space. But now Mike is looking at a one-time "wipe the books clean" chance to pocket all that unused cap space.

And it just happens to happen the one year we are absolutely 100% in re-build mode. When Marvin first came in Mike loosened the purse strings and signed a few quality free agents. Not a lot of huge stars, but solid starters (John Thornton, Bobbie Williams, Reggie Kelly, Tory James, Nate Webster, Duane Clemmons, Kevin Hardy) instead of scrap heap signings.

Hope Mike decides to spend it all instead of taking the chance to never have to spend it.

[bengals1969]

(01-24-2020, 03:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I heard where there may not be any money "rolled over" to 2021 because there will be new rules under a new CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement).

A lot of people here complain about the Bengals rolling over money every year, but the fact is that some teams did not roll it over every year like the Bengals.  And some years the Bengals actually spent OVER the league salary cap because they had cap space to roll over.  So I have never panicked about rolling over cap space.  But now Mike is looking at a one-time "wipe the books clean" chance to pocket all that unused cap space.

And it just happens to happen the one year we are absolutely 100% in re-build mode.  When Marvin first came in Mike loosened the purse strings and signed a few quality free agents.  Not a lot of huge stars, but solid starters (John Thornton, Bobbie Williams, Reggie Kelly, Tory James, Nate Webster, Duane Clemmons, Kevin Hardy) instead of scrap heap signings.

Hope Mike decides to spend it all instead of taking the chance to never have to spend it.

From the media reports and pictures I saw, attendance at games was really terrible at PBS the last two seasons.  Of course the media could have lied and taken the worst possible times for their videos and pictures.  So if attendance was as bad as it looked, MB does have incentive, like any businessman when a business is losing customers, to spice things up.  Hire some excellent Olinemen for instance. Could this year be when some fear courses thru MB's veins about fans not showing up?

So those of you who went to games, I can't as I'm in the SF bay area, was attendance bad?

[Au165]

(01-24-2020, 03:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I heard where there may not be any money "rolled over" to 2021 because there will be new rules under a new CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement).

A lot of people here complain about the Bengals rolling over money every year, but the fact is that some teams did not roll it over every year like the Bengals.  And some years the Bengals actually spent OVER the league salary cap because they had cap space to roll over.  So I have never panicked about rolling over cap space.  But now Mike is looking at a one-time "wipe the books clean" chance to pocket all that unused cap space.

And it just happens to happen the one year we are absolutely 100% in re-build mode.  When Marvin first came in Mike loosened the purse strings and signed a few quality free agents.  Not a lot of huge stars, but solid starters (John Thornton, Bobbie Williams, Reggie Kelly, Tory James, Nate Webster, Duane Clemmons, Kevin Hardy) instead of scrap heap signings.

Hope Mike decides to spend it all instead of taking the chance to never have to spend it.

I wonder if some of the recent interviews where they insinuate they may look for in FA than usual has anything to do with this. You even have Hobson leading the questions in that direction like a kid who knows a secret but can't say it out loud so he leads questioning to get someone else to say it. 

I personally don't see owners giving up the rollover unless players will give up the tag but we will see. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Well this gives me at least SOME hope we will pursue players to fill our needs. Thanks Fred.

Listening to Hobspin, Lap and Hoard sure isn't doing it for me right now.

[muskiesfan]

I read somewhere (I believe it was CBS) that teams cannot rollover money to 2021 because of the expiring CBA. That could change if a new CBA is reached, but heard that may not be until summer. I don't know if they plan on getting rid of the rollover for good, but if there is no rollover to 2021 the team definitely needs to spend on some upgrades.

[*ochocincos*]

I really hope they aren't allowed to carry over into 2021, at least for one year.
I want to see, as you mentioned, what Mike Brown does with the cap when he doesn't have that option.
You'd hope he goes ahead and spends it, but we'll see.

[XenoMorph]

(01-24-2020, 04:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I really hope they aren't allowed to carry over into 2021, at least for one year.
I want to see, as you mentioned, what Mike Brown does with the cap when he doesn't have that option.
You'd hope he goes ahead and spends it, but we'll see.

I do like the roll over system though... It makes those incentive heavy contracts more viable I think..

Say you sign AJ to a 1 year 18 mil dollar deal (not a tag)  but only 2 mil is gaurenteed and the rest is 1 mil per game played @ least 50% of the offensive snaps..)   now if he doesn't play every game that money cant ever be used. But had to be available.


but yes..  We should be spenders this year especially if we are letting go of Daltons contract for a rookie QBs  that gives us at least 1 Top teir or 2 almost top tier players

[2MinutesHate]

I have seen no evidence that Mike Brown will be conducting business any differently than he did prior to 2013 (the first year of minimum spending).
I would not expect MB to overpay any free agents this year, which is what it will take to get anyone of quality to come to Cincinnati due to our track record.  Actually, I believe we should see more of the same, which will be bargain bin FA's looking to hang on in the NFL.  

Because we have the number 1 pick (which should be Joe Burrow), I would not expect him to do much more.  ZT should have little influence over MB, especially with the record he put out in 2019.  The fans will be rightfully upset, the excitement of the draft will come and we will forget as usual.  Let's hope Burrow doesn't quit/give up like Carson did when MB refuses to help the team when he's in position to do so, as he has done in the past.

MB has never spent much money or taken much risk in bringing players to the Bengals.  It's not his style and he's too old to change now.  I'd pocket the money too if I was MB, because that's what he's good at, making money.  He sure as hell sucks at being a GM when it comes to fielding a winning football team.

[sandwedge]

(01-24-2020, 03:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I heard where there may not be any money "rolled over" to 2021 because there will be new rules under a new CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement).

A lot of people here complain about the Bengals rolling over money every year, but the fact is that some teams did not roll it over every year like the Bengals.  And some years the Bengals actually spent OVER the league salary cap because they had cap space to roll over.  So I have never panicked about rolling over cap space.  But now Mike is looking at a one-time "wipe the books clean" chance to pocket all that unused cap space.

And it just happens to happen the one year we are absolutely 100% in re-build mode.  When Marvin first came in Mike loosened the purse strings and signed a few quality free agents.  Not a lot of huge stars, but solid starters (John Thornton, Bobbie Williams, Reggie Kelly, Tory James, Nate Webster, Duane Clemmons, Kevin Hardy) instead of scrap heap signings.

Hope Mike decides to spend it all instead of taking the chance to never have to spend it.

Me too Fred! I don't want to see them spend though by giving all to one guy. I'd like to see some solid signings like you said. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-24-2020, 05:02 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I do like the roll over system though... It makes those incentive heavy contracts more viable I think..

Say you sign AJ to a 1 year 18 mil dollar deal (not a tag)  but only 2 mil is gaurenteed and the rest is 1 mil per game played @ least 50% of the offensive snaps..)   now if he doesn't play every game that money cant ever be used. But had to be available.


but yes..  We should be spenders this year especially if we are letting go of Daltons contract for a rookie QBs  that gives us at least 1 Top teir or 2 almost top tier players

There is value in the ability to roll over. My view is that it's best utilized by going lighter for a couple years to stock up for a year or two to better go "all in" once team is ready to compete. I think the Bengals have hurt themselves by basically rolling over ~$10-15 mill year after year. It's felt like they have never been willing to go all in.

[Murdock2420]

Sadly when giving a chance to pocket money, you have to know what will happen.

Mike will find a way to get near the floor via extensions and dumpster dives and franchise tagging A.J. and then just stick the rest in his pockets under the explanation of "waiting to see what the new CBA is going to do, don't want to hinder our ability to sign our own going forward" or some crap along those lines.

[Joelist]

If they can't rollover this year and of course the floor is still in effect, they might (not sure) be forced to actually spend big bucks.

[XenoMorph]

(01-24-2020, 05:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: There is value in the ability to roll over. My view is that it's best utilized by going lighter for a couple years to stock up for a year or two to better go "all in" once team is ready to compete. I think the Bengals have hurt themselves by basically rolling over ~$10-15 mill year after year. It's felt like they have never been willing to go all in.

I think basically that was when palmers contract came off the books the year he sat out... We had to have it incase he report then we had a ton of extra money...  that just kept getting pushed.. We were over the league cap for a bit (but still had money to spend due to this...) 

Maybe earmarked for players that didn't quiet work out.. Or for this type of season. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

So it’s gonna be just like 2008 all over again when they cut Willie Anderson, Rudi Johnson, and Deltha O’Neal during final cuts to free up about $10 million and I was thinkin’, “Damn, these boys are fixin’ to make a move.” And then . . . nothin’. They pocketed that money.

[BrownAssClown]

Hoping Mike Brown Spends that money Mr. Toast? You have more faith in Mr. Brown than I do.

[t3r3e3]

(01-24-2020, 11:56 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: Hoping Mike Brown Spends that money Mr. Toast? You have more faith in Mr. Brown than I do.

Swiss Alps jaunts cost money. I also heard Mike has a ranch of sorts in Montana. The money will go to those.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-25-2020, 12:51 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Swiss Alps jaunts cost money.  I also heard Mike has a ranch of sorts in Montana.  The money will go to those.

I was just "admiring" your sig....could you imagine Mike's winning percentage without Marvin at least doing what he was able to do here? Think a bunch more like Shula and Coslet, and maybe Zac. Yikes!

[Gdale_Bengal]

Have to spend all the money you say?

AJ gets 4 years 60 million 40 guaranteed.

Theres the majority of it.

If not? Writes himself a check cuz hes tge most important.

[grampahol]

C'mon you guys! It's almost like you WANT them to miss their annual ski trips and such to the most opulent hotels in the world or something.. I mean, don't they deserve a break once in awhile after working so hard to keep us all....uhhhh...entertained? Mikey might have a stroke and die from working so hard and THEN WHAT?

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2020, 05:23 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I have seen no evidence that Mike Brown will be conducting business any differently than he did prior to 2013 (the first year of minimum spending).
I would not expect MB to overpay any free agents this year, which is what it will take to get anyone of quality to come to Cincinnati due to our track record.  Actually, I believe we should see more of the same, which will be bargain bin FA's looking to hang on in the NFL.  

Because we have the number 1 pick (which should be Joe Burrow), I would not expect him to do much more.  ZT should have little influence over MB, especially with the record he put out in 2019.  The fans will be rightfully upset, the excitement of the draft will come and we will forget as usual.  Let's hope Burrow doesn't quit/give up like Carson did when MB refuses to help the team when he's in position to do so, as he has done in the past.

MB has never spent much money or taken much risk in bringing players to the Bengals.  It's not his style and he's too old to change now.  I'd pocket the money too if I was MB, because that's what he's good at, making money.  He sure as hell sucks at being a GM when it comes to fielding a winning football team.

I don't know that he's good at making money.  He's in a system where he can't help but make money, but how does he do in relation to other teams?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/

Edit: I think you can only look at that link once. Then they want you to pay. Bengals were 30th in total revenue at $375 million.