Andy Dalton is a Quitter

[BengalsRocker]

(05-01-2020, 12:33 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Oh, please. Totally not true. If that were true, then no thread in JN could discuss exBengals and the teams they may or may not go to. Bengals play the Steelers. Dalton and Steelers have been linked as possible landing spot.

This is a weak attempt to get the thread closed because you don't like the facts behind it.

No a weak attempt is if people don't want to join you in your dislike for Dalton that him signing with a hated team will do the trick.

This is for your own pleasure and satisfaction and you know it.

Weak.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2020, 12:11 PM)PDub80 Wrote:  That is NOT quitting OSU for football reasons. 

This is just too easy

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2018/04/92674/joe-burrow-announces-decision-to-leave-ohio-state-as-graduate-transfer


Burrow also told reporters after the spring game, however, that he would consider a graduate transfer if he did not win the starting job.

"I came here to play," Burrow said. "I didn’t come here to sit on the bench for four years. And I know I’m a pretty darn good quarterback. And I want to play somewhere."

[Shake n Blake]

(04-30-2020, 04:55 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If this is true the team massively misplayed this entire situation. They should have released at the start of free agency and applied the cap savings to free agency.

But, if Andy is the great guy and team player people say he is why wouldn’t he do the home town discount deal?

Also, you’re claiming he would be the clear back up?  My question is why?  Why is he the clear back up? His experience in the system and with the roster giving him an advantage combined with his talent, why is he clearly the back up? And why isn’t he willing to bet on himself in Cincinnati?

I gotta go for now. Later.

We did misplay the situation. Cutting Andy and using the savings towards free agency is what I wanted to happen back in February. I knew a trade would be difficult with the over-saturated QB market. That said, apparently we need to cut Andy to have room to sign our rookies, so it looks like we spent all we could in free agency anyway. The Bengals tried to find a trade and failed. So a release was necessary to both Dalton AND the team.

Again, name the long term starter who got benched and then took a massive pay cut to stay with the team that benched him...and we don't even know that this was an option. It's just as possible (probably more-so) that the Bengals were just going to move on to a fresh new era with no Dalton peering over Burrow's shoulder.

If I really have to explain to you why Dalton would've been the clear backup behind Burrow, I don't think you're really thinking this through rationally. Or your vendetta is blinding you.

1. Teams rarely take a guy #1 overall and keep him on the bench. The last 9 QB's taken 1OA started on opening day. The last one who didn't was Jamarcus Russell. Joe Burrow is not Jamarcus Russell.

2. We played to half empty stadiums last year. The remaining fans would revolt if Dalton somehow won the starting gig.

3. Burrow is better than Dalton. Or at least common sense says he very likely will be.

Betting on himself in this situation would be a fool's bet. You're not really being fair or reasonable here. The team moved on and Dalton is still (somewhat) in his prime. He's not 36 and washed up like Kenny was when he accepted a role as Boomer's backup. Any QB in Dalton's situation would move on to a place where they can realistically compete to be starter.

(04-30-2020, 07:12 PM)Benton Wrote: I'm not big on locking threads. Or suspending guys.

But folks, keep it civil or both options are on the table.

(04-30-2020, 07:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Only 2 teams? Count again. NE said no thanks, we are sticking with Stidham about an hour ago. 

So who is left? Jax?
Didn't MInshew finish with a higher qb rating last year and is only 23? Jax would be better served sticking with a younger AD and developing him. He might get an offer from Jax, but it will be for peanuts and it will be for a back up role. I'd stick with Minshew and if he's stinking up the joint during the season next year, then I think about signing AD. No reason for doing so now. Wait and see. 

That sounds like AD is really in control of where he plays next. 

Link? I've seen reports that New England and Jacksonville are both interested.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/04/30/whats-next-andy-dalton-patriots-jaguars-reportedly-interested/3055285001/

The closest I've seen to the Pats saying "no thanks" is reports saying they'd only be interested in Dalton as a supplement to their QB room, not as a long term answer over Stidham.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/gm-report/no-aggressive-push-by-pats-to-sign-dalton

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2020, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Non Sequitur.

He was still under scholarship to play football at OSU.  Absolutely nothing changed just because he got his degree. Lots of guys graduate early and continue to play at the same school while enrolled in grad school.

Except for the fact he graduated and was no longer a student enrolled in classes at Ohio State.  If we intentionally ignore that then, yeah, nothing changed.  LOL

I know that you understand students have to apply and be accepted to attend graduate school. It's not like advancing from 11th grade to 12th grade.

[jj22]

You guys can't have it both ways. If Dalton is a quitter, there's no question Burrow would be considered one given the circumstances by you guys too.

It's not like he couldn't take graduate classes at Ohio State.

I think you guys are caught in a trap you foolishly walked into.

It would be funny if it wasn't so embarrassing for the 3 of you.

[PDub80]

(05-01-2020, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is just too easy

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2018/04/92674/joe-burrow-announces-decision-to-leave-ohio-state-as-graduate-transfer


Burrow also told reporters after the spring game, however, that he would consider a graduate transfer if he did not win the starting job.

"I came here to play," Burrow said. "I didn’t come here to sit on the bench for four years. And I know I’m a pretty darn good quarterback. And I want to play somewhere."

(05-01-2020, 01:18 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Except for the fact he graduated and was no longer a student enrolled in classes at Ohio State.  If we intentionally ignore that then, yeah, nothing changed.  LOL

I know that you understand students have to apply and be accepted to attend graduate school. It's not like advancing from 11th grade to 12th grade.

(05-01-2020, 01:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: You guys can't have it both ways. If Dalton is a quitter, there's no question Burrow would be considered one given the circumstances by you guys too.

It's not like he couldn't take graduate classes at Ohio State.

I think you guys are caught in a trap you foolishly walked into.

It would be funny if it wasn't so embarrassing for the 3 of you.

Breech nailed this... again.

Graduating and transferring is = NFL contract ending and free agency. He was free to switch schools after his obligation was done.

If AD left via free agency then the Quitter label wouldn't stick. That didn't happen. He instead asked to be traded during the season when the Bengals decided 3 losing seasons & an 0-8 start wasn't good enough. He then doubled down on quitting the team when he asked to be released now instead of remain on the roster to fight for a spot or be traded later.

[jj22]

Too many excuses unfortunately. Burrow isn't a quitter and it's a disgrace you guys would consider him one given the definition/circumstances being pushed.

[HarleyDog]

(05-01-2020, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Burrow also told reporters after the spring game, however, that he would consider a graduate transfer if he did not win the starting job.

"I came here to play," Burrow said. "I didn’t come here to sit on the bench for four years. And I know I’m a pretty darn good quarterback. And I want to play somewhere."

All I can say is Damn glad he transferred. 

[muskiesfan]

(05-01-2020, 01:30 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Breech nailed this... again.

Graduating and transferring is = NFL contract ending and free agency. He was free to switch schools after his obligation was done.

If AD left via free agency then the Quitter label wouldn't stick. That didn't happen. He instead asked to be traded during the season when the Bengals decided 3 losing seasons & an 0-8 start wasn't good enough. He then doubled down on quitting the team when he asked to be released now instead of remain on the roster to fight for a spot or be traded later.

I know you won't back down, but lets talk about the trade thing.

Last season, Andy asked to be traded. He was not. Did he still show up and participate in practice and team activities? Was he still dressed and on the sidelines during the games Finley started? After Finley's opportunity, did he start the remaining games and help the team to their only 2 victories last season?

That's not quitting. He didn't give up and he continued to do what was asked of him. He even helped the team to their only 2 wins last season. I don't care how much you hate the guy, how many mental gymnastics you want to go through to make this real, or how bad your understanding of the word quit is, he did not quit last season. There's no argument or debate to be had. It simply did not happen. Asking to be traded is not the same as leaving the team and sitting at home.

[BURROWorBUST]

[*bfine32*]

FWIW, I don't think Dalton "hate" motivated the OP I think it was more Carson "love".

Both Carson and Andy put themselves ahead of the team. We don't know what happened behind the scenes but the optics look better for Andy in the situations. I wish both would have had the team first attitude Boomer did and agree to stay on a year during the transition.

[cinci4life]

(05-01-2020, 09:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF are you talking about.

Dalton NEVER quit.  If the Bengals had not released him he would have stayed and played.

Palmer quit.  He said he would never play for the Bengals and he left the team.

(05-01-2020, 10:01 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Asking for his release = quitting

Everything else you wrote is speculation to fit your narrative. 

So PDub80 I fail to see what part of fred's post is speculation.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2020, 01:18 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Except for the fact he graduated and was no longer a student enrolled in classes at Ohio State.  If we intentionally ignore that then, yeah, nothing changed.  LOL

I know that you understand students have to apply and be accepted to attend graduate school. It's not like advancing from 11th grade to 12th grade.

Getting a degree and going to grad school has nothing to do with his football scholarship.  Lots of players do it.  Their scholarships are not cancelled by graduation.  Burrow still had a scholarship to OSU but he decided to quit the team and play somewhere else.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2020, 01:30 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Graduating and transferring is = NFL contract ending and free agency. 

Graduating does not end a scholarship.  If you do not believe me then just look at the date on the link I used to embarrass you before.  May 2018.  Burrow and the team were preparing for the 2018 season when BUrrow would be in graduate school.

Notice how didn't mention anything about "If I get accepted into grad school"?

So, wrong again.

[jj22]

The idea that some Bengal fans would already define Burrow as a quitter before he's even played a down is one of the reasons other fans and media pundits in the sports world said we don't deserve Burrow.

To those Burrow fans that came around after the draft lurking in the shadows reading this thread. These 3 fans don't represent all of us.

[Bengalholic]

(05-01-2020, 01:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: FWIW, I don't think Dalton "hate" motivated the OP I think it was more Carson "love".

Both Carson and Andy put themselves ahead of the team. We don't know what happened behind the scenes but the optics look better for Andy in the situations. I wish both would have had the team first attitude Boomer did and agree to stay on a year during the transition.

Hell, Boomer wanted out on 2 different occasions and was very public with both.

In '87 he wanted out because of the fans and wasn't shy about saying so:

"I've taken the approach now -- and I've told the coaches, the general manager and the players this -- that if I'm not wanted out here, I sure as hell don't want to be here."

In '93 he wanted out again, this time being even more blunt about it:

"There's no way in the world I want to play for this team again next year. There's no way I can walk into that locker room and play for these coaches next year."

Every situation is different and unique when a QB decides they want to leave a team. Carson was pissed about what he perceived as a lack of commitment, so he chose to go home and refuse to play. Boomer was irritated with his treatment by fans the first time, and his dissatisfaction with being the backup the second time, so he asked to be dealt.

Andy's situation is even more different than those two. The Bengals stated publicly, very early on, that they would 'do right by Andy' out of respect for what he's done here. They weren't able to trade him, so Andy asked for the release and the Bengals quickly granted it. Overall, the situation was handled about as amicably as you hope for, IMO. 

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2020, 02:31 PM)jj22 Wrote: The idea that some Bengal fans would already define Burrow as a quitter before he's even played a down is one of the reasons other fans and media pundits in the sports world said we don't deserve Burrow.

To those Burrow fans that came around after the draft lurking in the shadows reading this thread. These 3 fans don't represent all of us.

Just to be clear I don't think either Burrow or Dalton are quitters.

I am just using Burrow to show the Dalton haters how silly their argument is.

[*Synric*]

The Bengals did kinda quit on Andy first when they benched him.

[BengalsRocker]

(05-01-2020, 01:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: FWIW, I don't think Dalton "hate" motivated the OP I think it was more Carson "love".

Both Carson and Andy put themselves ahead of the team. We don't know what happened behind the scenes but the optics look better for Andy in the situations. I wish both would have had the team first attitude Boomer did and agree to stay on a year during the transition.

Eh... me thinks he wanted to smudge Dalton's character for whatever personal vendetta.

I bet the majority of Bengals' fans understand Palmer's actions in hindsight but don't sympathize with him as person.

Dalton is probably the exact opposite.  They understand him wanting to be released and respect who he is.

Being the leader and walking away from the team, and having your leadership taken away are two very different scenarios.

People can debate this to death, but how do they suppose Carson would've handled being benched without discussion?

From what Dalton said(and we'll never know)he was blindsided without prior discussion and benched.

That's when anything about a trade was ever mentioned from him.

[BengalsRocker]

(05-01-2020, 02:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just to be clear I don't think either Burrow or Dalton are quitters.

I am just using Burrow to show the Dalton haters how silly their argument is.

I used to think Palmer was a quitter... then you realize that you're just a fan who absolutely has no clue to what has been said or promised behind closed doors.

I did not like his method, but perhaps he was justified... as a fan I will never fully know.