Andy Dalton is a Quitter

[Bengalholic]

I think Kenny Anderson put it best as to why this outcome was the best thing for everyone involved:

"I think that it's the best thing for everybody. It's the Joe Burrow Era now. I know Andy had said he'd be willing to come back and be a backup, but if he starts the season and throws an interception, the fans begin to clamor. I think it would have been an awkward situation. This is the right thing by Andy and I think he'll go somewhere and play well. It's Joe Burrow's time and I'm excited for that."

[jj22]

(05-01-2020, 02:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just to be clear I don't think either Burrow or Dalton are quitters.

I am just using Burrow to show the Dalton haters how silly their argument is.

I didn't think you were one of those who established and defended this definition.

[masterpanthera_t]

(05-01-2020, 02:54 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think Kenny Anderson put it best as to why this outcome was the best thing for everyone involved:

"I think that it's the best thing for everybody. It's the Joe Burrow Era now. I know Andy had said he'd be willing to come back and be a backup, but if he starts the season and throws an interception, the fans begin to clamor. I think it would have been an awkward situation. This is the right thing by Andy and I think he'll go somewhere and play well. It's Joe Burrow's time and I'm excited for that."

Agreed. I thought the same way too. I wanted them to get Andy traded or released, just so the Burrow era started with a clean slate from day one with no doubts about whose team it is and qb controversies and such (real or media driven). Especially given Dalton's salary, but still.

Others have said it, but I'll mention it too. Someone like Matt Moore would be a great backup to help Joe with ZT's offense.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2020, 02:46 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I used to think Palmer was a quitter... then you realize that you're just a fan who absolutely has no clue to what has been said or promised behind closed doors.

I did not like his method, but perhaps he was justified... as a fan I will never fully know.

Rep.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2020, 02:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Getting a degree and going to grad school has nothing to do with his football scholarship.  Lots of players do it.  Their scholarships are not cancelled by graduation.  Burrow still had a scholarship to OSU but he decided to quit the team and play somewhere else.

Can an athlete play for a university if they aren't enrolled as a student at the university?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-01-2020, 02:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Graduating does not end a scholarship.  If you do not believe me then just look at the date on the link I used to embarrass you before.  May 2018.  Burrow and the team were preparing for the 2019 season when BUrrow would be in graduate school.

Notice how didn't mention anything about "If I get accepted into grad school"?

So, wrong again.

Huh?

May 2018 means the team was preparing for the 2018 season. Not 2019.

[masterpanthera_t]

(05-01-2020, 02:32 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Hell, Boomer wanted out on 2 different occasions and was very public with both.

In '87 he wanted out because of the fans and wasn't shy about saying so:

"I've taken the approach now -- and I've told the coaches, the general manager and the players this -- that if I'm not wanted out here, I sure as hell don't want to be here."

In '93 he wanted out again, this time being even more blunt about it:

"There's no way in the world I want to play for this team again next year. There's no way I can walk into that locker room and play for these coaches next year."

Every situation is different and unique when a QB decides they want to leave a team. Carson was pissed about what he perceived as a lack of commitment, so he chose to go home and refuse to play. Boomer was irritated with his treatment by fans the first time, and his dissatisfaction with being the backup the second time, so he asked to be dealt.

Andy's situation is even more different than those two. The Bengals stated publicly, very early on, that they would 'do right by Andy' out of respect for what he's done here. They weren't able to trade him, so Andy asked for the release and the Bengals quickly granted it. Overall, the situation was handled about as amicably as you hope for, IMO. 

Nice post with context 'Holic.

I've felt from the first day when Carson asked to be traded, that I had no issues with him, whatsoever. I saw that the guy had given his left knee and right elbow, taken the team to the playoffs and gave his best to the team. He spent 7 years and eventually saw that his ultimate goal as an athlete was not achievable under Mike Brown on this team. Whether I agree with if it's true or not doesn't matter. All that matters is that Palmer saw it that way and I'm sure he didn't come to that conclusion without thinking it through. We as fans have no idea how many discussions Palmer had with management before he finally said I've had enough. If it's true (not saying it is, but only if), that MB didn't share the commitment to winning that was needed (and most of the fans on this board would say that it's true from the outside), I have absolutely no issues whatsoever with Palmer saying I'm not putting my health and body on the line for this level of lack of commitment.

As a fan, I'm not privy to either side of that story so there's really nothing for me to rake anyone over the coals with, but I'm probably going to go with MB didn't have that commitment, based on his track record from about 1991 to mid 2000's or so. Yes he paid Carson well, but that probably is simply because Palmer was the first franchise QB MB had after Boomer. He probably would always pay a QB well.

For all I know, maybe Palmer's actions have changed MB's way of doing business. Not completely, since they've let many homegrown quality players walk in FA even though they claim to put a premium on drafting and retaining players. But based on this offseason clearly something has changed and I'm not sure if it's MB's thinking, ZT's influence or Katie's influence or a combination of all of them, but hopefully, this approach will stick (doesn't have to be to this degree every year, but at least a little bit), and we don't go back to operating like we used to.

[Joelist]

I will note that the "Andy army" welcomed Burrow with open arms and acknowledged that through trade or release Andy would be leaving. It is the "anti-Andy" group that is sitting here trashing him even after he has departed even though his overall record here was more successful than any Bengals QB since Boomer Esiaison and he and his wife contributed big time to the community (remember they were giving lots of money even before he hit payday).

Andy is no longer in the house - it is Burrow's team now. I wish Andy well wherever he goes and hope he and his wife will always consider themselves in some part Bengals.

[Bengalholic]

(05-01-2020, 03:25 PM)Joelist Wrote: I will note that the "Andy army" welcomed Burrow with open arms and acknowledged that through trade or release Andy would be leaving. It is the "anti-Andy" group that is sitting here trashing him even after he has departed even though his overall record here was more successful than any Bengals QB since Boomer Esiaison and he and his wife contributed big time to the community (remember they were giving lots of money even before he hit payday).

Andy is no longer in the house - it is Burrow's team now. I wish Andy well wherever he goes and hope he and his wife will always consider themselves in some part Bengals.

Man, I'm a fan of Kenny, Boomer, Blake, Palmer and Andy. I think all of them did some very good things for this organization during their time and were entertaining to watch when they were on top of their games. 

Having said that, I wasn't a fan of how Carson handled his situation. I don't know everything that went down behind the scenes, but in general, I'm just not a fan of refusing to play. I also wasn't a big fan of Boomer's diatribes against the fans during the strike season. I understood his frustrations, but it only served to fuel the fire during a really contentious time. 

As I've said with the Dalton situation, I think it ended up being handled pretty well overall. The 2 sides are parting with no animosity or bad blood. The Bengals kept their word to Andy and were pretty classy during the process. 

[bengals67]

Very late to this thread but this has to be one of the most off base posts ever.

Nor is it humorous.

Andy Dalton is a great human being. So is his wife. As Holic says, releasing him was best for everyone.

PS- I think the Carson hatred is just as unjustified.  He got frustrated with Mike Brown's ways and I don't blame him.

I wish management had gone all in with Carson similar to what they have done this season. My bet is Carson would have stuck it out if that had happened.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-01-2020, 03:25 PM)Joelist Wrote: I will note that the "Andy army" welcomed Burrow with open arms and acknowledged that through trade or release Andy would be leaving. It is the "anti-Andy" group that is sitting here trashing him even after he has departed even though his overall record here was more successful than any Bengals QB since Boomer Esiaison and he and his wife contributed big time to the community (remember they were giving lots of money even before he hit payday).

Andy is no longer in the house - it is Burrow's team now. I wish Andy well wherever he goes and hope he and his wife will always consider themselves in some part Bengals.

Great post Joelist. Spot on in the way I feel.

[Bengalitis]

(05-01-2020, 03:37 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Man, I'm a fan of Kenny, Boomer, Blake, Palmer and Andy. I think all of them did some very good things for this organization during their time and were entertaining to watch when they were on top of their games. 

Having said that, I wasn't a fan of how Carson handled his situation. I don't know everything that went down behind the scenes, but in general, I'm just not a fan of refusing to play. I also wasn't a big fan of Boomer's diatribes against the fans during the strike season. I understood his frustrations, but it only served to fuel the fire during a really contentious time. 

As I've said with the Dalton situation, I think it ended up being handled pretty well overall. The 2 sides are parting with no animosity or bad blood. The Bengals kept their word to Andy and were pretty classy during the process. 

I dont know, considering how the org. benched Andy in public on his birthday, I can only imagine what happens behind the scenes.

[Bengalholic]

(05-01-2020, 04:47 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I dont know, considering how the org. benched Andy in public on his birthday, I can only imagine what happens behind the scenes.

Eh, benchings are public by nature and it happens to the best of them, and no QB is ever happy about it. Kenny and Boomer both got benched at one point. Hell, Joe Montana was once benched during a playoff game. 

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2020, 03:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Huh?

May 2018 means the team was preparing for the 2018 season. Not 2019.

Thank you.

Typo corrected.

Now you are free to address my actual point.  Why would Joe be talking about starting for OSU in the 2018 season if his scholarship was going to end in the spring of that year when he got his undergrad degree?

[masonbengals fan]

(05-01-2020, 03:25 PM)Joelist Wrote: I will note that the "Andy army" welcomed Burrow with open arms and acknowledged that through trade or release Andy would be leaving. It is the "anti-Andy" group that is sitting here trashing him even after he has departed even though his overall record here was more successful than any Bengals QB since Boomer Esiaison and he and his wife contributed big time to the community (remember they were giving lots of money even before he hit payday).

Andy is no longer in the house - it is Burrow's team now. I wish Andy well wherever he goes and hope he and his wife will always consider themselves in some part Bengals.

:andy:  Good post

[bengalsfan73]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Andy was a class act and he deserved to be treated with respect for not only what he did for the organization but more importantly what he did for the community. Some people are just obnoxious.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2020, 03:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Can an athlete play for a university if they aren't enrolled as a student at the university?

No, but that has nothing to do with this discussion.

Getting an undergrad degree did not end Burrow's scholarship.  It ended when he quit the team to go to LSU.

[fozzie11]

Ok do you consider Jalen hurts a quitter when he left for Oklahoma?


Also I think pdub and breech are the same person with 2 accounts...

[PDub80]

(05-01-2020, 05:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No, but that has nothing to do with this discussion.

Getting an undergrad degree did not end Burrow's scholarship.  It ended when he quit the team to go to LSU.

NCAA D1 scholarships are either year to year with school option for renewal or multi year (typically 4 years). To think that Joe would  graduate and then be underscholarship from OSU for the next 2 years is absurd. He graduated from OSU and went somewhere else to get graduate degree. That is normal behavior for a college student.

Burrow didn't up and quit (similar to Fields leaving Georgia early). He saw his degree through and made a normal transition to another school for graduate degree.

You're arguing semantics, not points... again.

[PDub80]

(05-01-2020, 05:38 PM)fozzie11 Wrote: Ok do you consider Jalen hurts a quitter when he left for Oklahoma?


Also I think pdub and breech are the same person with 2 accounts...

Did Hurts graduate and leave for an undergrad? If yes, then no. If he left before graduating, then yes... he quit.

Also, I don't know Breech nor am I Breech nor have I ever communicated with Breech outside of open thread conversation. Never even PM'd the guy. He's clearly just another genius out here preaching the gospel of truth: If Carson "quit", so did Dalton.