NFL's 4th and 15 proposal and the Bengals

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(05-24-2020, 02:24 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Question: Can a team still attempt an on-side kick? Personally, I'd rather do that than the 4-15 from even deeper.

 

At first, I thought that the proposal was an option added but a few days later, I've heard several radio hosts describe it strictly as a replacement, not an option added for the Head Coach.

And as BoomerFan politely pointed out . . . I meant Dennard, not Joseph.

[bengals1969]

(05-22-2020, 03:24 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-updates-language-on-4th-and-15-proposal-taking-out-trailing-requirement

Have the Bengals FA additions to the defensive backfield improved or weakened their chances of defending against it? Gone are Joseph and Kirkpatrick and it looks like Shawn Williams will either lose some snaps or play a S/LB hybrid.
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Bengals WRs may be ranked 11th by PFF but they suck as a whole at getting separation. Boyd is great in the short range but doesn't catch a lot of balls 15 yards past the LOS. Ross still has great speed but is very unreliable. Tee Higgins is a big question mark. Some rookie WRs jump right in, some take awhile to get everything up to speed.

AJ is awesome . . . BUT, he doesn't really do a lot when contesting for a 50/50 ball with a DB. Julio Jones is probably the best at that right now with DeAndre Hopkins a close 2nd. Anquan Boldin was the best I ever saw at fighting for the ball. That was a big part of Steve Smith's greatness. AJ doesn't appear to have that tough guy, killer spirit that they do.

Losing Eifert hurts because he's made for 4th and 15 type of situations. Whether CJ or Sample can fill that role remains to be seen but that is a drop off.

Like most good RBs, Mixon and Gio are both very dangerous in the open field. I could see a roll out to one side and a screen set-up on the other. Neither is likely to be involved in a 4th and 15 situation other than a screen or blocking

Burrow is another question mark. A strong arm with a college ball doesn't mean a smooth transition to an NFL ball. There are adjustments to be made. Hopefully they can game plan around his strengths and work from there. I had that hope last year and wasn't impressed. Zac needs to step up.

If the rule is approved, I don't see this Bengals team being that threatening on 4th and 15. Next year, though . . .

Thoughts?

Silly idea.  If the NFL wants to add drama after a score, adopt the rugby or lacrosse way to control the ball after a score.  Scrum it. 
Trial by combat. 
Even better than this, overhaul the rules and eliminate lots of penalties to make the game faster and free flowing.  Then there will be more scoring and more drama while premier athletes do what only they can do.

[motoarch]

I may be alone in this. I haven't read all the post but many seem to hate this idea.

I love it. All of you purist need to get off your high horse. Just because something's been down a certain way for a long time doesn't make it good. I think this improves the game.

Give it a chance for a season and then decided if you hate it.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-26-2020, 11:21 AM)motoarch Wrote: I may be alone in this.  I haven't read all the post but many seem to hate this idea.

I love it.  All of you purist need to get off your high horse.  Just because something's been down a certain way for a long time doesn't make it good.  I think this improves the game.

Give it a chance for a season and then decided if you hate it.

I'm not sure if you're the only one who thinks that way, but you're definitely the minority opinion on the topic.

[BengalChris]

(05-24-2020, 03:09 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: At first, I thought that the proposal was an option added but a few days later, I've heard several radio hosts describe it strictly as a replacement, not an option added for the Head Coach.

And as BoomerFan politely pointed out . . . I meant Dennard, not Joseph.

Yuk, I hate the new rule then. It takes any surprise of what you might do out of the equation.

 

[BengalChris]

(05-26-2020, 10:42 AM)bengals1969 Wrote: Silly idea.  If the NFL wants to add drama after a score, adopt the rugby or lacrosse way to control the ball after a score.  Scrum it. 
Trial by combat. 
Even better than this, overhaul the rules and eliminate lots of penalties to make the game faster and free flowing.  Then there will be more scoring and more drama while premier athletes do what only they can do.

The game is being sissified. Someone might get an owie and go cry to mama or a lawyer.

Making the game safer is one thing, but the way things are headed they'll all be clothed in 5 inches of bubble wrap in 10 years time and even then the injury prone guys will still be injured just as much.

 

[ElkValleyBengal]

(05-26-2020, 11:21 AM)motoarch Wrote: I may be alone in this.  I haven't read all the post but many seem to hate this idea.

I love it.  All of you purist need to get off your high horse.  Just because something's been down a certain way for a long time doesn't make it good.  I think this improves the game.

Give it a chance for a season and then decided if you hate it.

From the view atop my high horse, I already see I don't like it.  

As I have already seen stated in this thread, an onside kick should be difficult to pull off.  It's almost as if some think a team actually deserves to get the ball back without giving it back to the other team.  I'd suggest not getting beat the first 58 minutes of the game and putting yourself in such a position, but that's antiquated thinking I suppose.

[motoarch]

(05-26-2020, 01:08 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: From the view atop my high horse, I already see I don't like it.  

As I have already seen stated in this thread, an onside kick should be difficult to pull off.  It's almost as if some think a team actually deserves to get the ball back without giving it back to the other team.  I'd suggest not getting beat the first 58 minutes of the game and putting yourself in such a position, but that's antiquated thinking I suppose.

So you think a 4 and 15 on your own side of the field is a gimmie?  If you fail the other team has the ball in better field position then if they get the onside kick.

And to your other point about getting the ball back.  You already have it either way.  Are you not in possession of the ball when you're kicking?  And if you get the ball on back then you never gave it up to begin with as the other team never got it back.

It's not that your thinking is antiquated as much as you're not really giving this any thought.

[ElkValleyBengal]

(05-26-2020, 02:42 PM)motoarch Wrote: So you think a 4 and 15 on your own side of the field is a gimmie?  If you fail the other team has the ball in better field position then if they get the onside kick.

And to your other point about getting the ball back.  You already have it either way.  Are you not in possession of the ball when you're kicking?  And if you get the ball on back then you never gave it up to begin with as the other team never got it back.

It's not that your thinking is antiquated as much as you're not really giving this any thought.

It's certainly not a gimmie, but it's an easier way of going about it.  I have no sympathy for a team (except the Bengals of course) that is in such a position to begin with, unless of course it's the result of bad officiating.  Which brings me to another point.  Having not looked closely at the rule, I'm assuming a PI would automatically result in a first down.  What if the PI is a bad call, then you've essentially given a free pass to that team.  And we all know the refs are more likely to screw up on a pass play than a kick.   

[motoarch]

(05-26-2020, 03:11 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: It's certainly not a gimmie, but it's an easier way of going about it.  I have no sympathy for a team (except the Bengals of course) that is in such a position to begin with, unless of course it's the result of bad officiating.  Which brings me to another point.  Having not looked closely at the rule, I'm assuming a PI would automatically result in a first down.  What if the PI is a bad call, then you've essentially given a free pass to that team.  And we all know the refs are more likely to screw up on a pass play than a kick.   

I can see your reservations about this but I'm really looking forward to seeing how it plays out.  

Maybe you're correct and it'll suck but I feel like it'll add more excitement to some close games. And I really don't think it's easier because it i think it has more risk if you fail by basically putting the ball in filed goal range for the other team on an incompletion. You might be right and I might be wrong but let s see how it plays first.

And itll give New Orleans a chance to find a new way to get screwed over by the refs in the post season when that pass interferance call gos against them ? 

[Cicero]

Might be a bit old fashioned in my middle age but maybe you focus on whats really wrong with the game. Say uh I don't know, the shitty refs?

[fredtoast]

(05-24-2020, 02:55 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I laugh at people that think that Lebran would have dominated in that era. He isn’t tough enough mentally to take that physical beating plus he’d get called for traveling and he’d be guarded. Watch how guys were guarded then vs. now.

LeBron came into the league at about the same time they eliminated hand checking on the perimeter.  But of all the guys playing today LeBron is the one guy I am sure would have thrived under the old rules.  He is a brute.

[bengals1969]

(05-26-2020, 08:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: LeBron came into the league at about the same time they eliminated hand checking on the perimeter.  But of all the guys playing today LeBron is the one guy I am sure would have thrived under the old rules.  He is a brute.

Agreed.  Has a long time, too long, Laker fan, Ive seen plenty of him in the regular season and he bullies guys inside the paint and around the rim.  LeBron has all the gifts to excel in any prior era.  As for his mental toughness, LOL, can't do what he's done without exceptional focus and discipline.  Notwithstanding his stupid remarks in China, being smart and mentally tough are different skill sets.

[sandwedge]

(05-24-2020, 03:09 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: At first, I thought that the proposal was an option added but a few days later, I've heard several radio hosts describe it strictly as a replacement, not an option added for the Head Coach.

And as BoomerFan politely pointed out . . . I meant Dennard, not Joseph.

If you read the latest on the Bengals site, according to Simmons, the onside kick is still an option.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-22-2020, 06:21 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I really liked what the XFL did before they folded this year, on KOs. The kicker kick from his 40 and his teammates lined up at the 30 yd line of the receiving team. The receiving team lined up at the 25 yd (5 yds across from the other team). The returner was at goal line. Nobody could move till he caught the ball.

Creative. Would reduce injuries and still allow for a return. Would keep kickers semi-relevant.

Way better idea than converting a 4th and 15.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-27-2020, 01:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Creative. Would reduce injuries and still allow for a return. Would keep kickers semi-relevant.

Way better idea than converting a 4th and 15.

The XFL kickoff was fun to watch.  I wonder how an onside kick would happen in that setup?  With 30 yards between the kicker and his own teammates, it would seem too easy for the kicker to simply knock it 10 yards, then pick it up and run for whatever he could get before doing a safe slide.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-27-2020, 02:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The XFL kickoff was fun to watch.  I wonder how an onside kick would happen in that setup?  With 30 yards between the kicker and his own teammates, it would seem too easy for the kicker to simply knock it 10 yards, then pick it up and run for whatever he could get before doing a safe slide.

Or the kicker just kicks into the scrum and best man gets the ball.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2020, 01:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Creative. Would reduce injuries and still allow for a return. Would keep kickers semi-relevant.

Way better idea than converting a 4th and 15.

Yeah, of all the ideas being proposed namely this 4th and 15 bull I thought the XFL kickoff would be the one this Offseason.

This is the way you reduce injuries as you say and keep the game fun to watch.

Don't know what the NFL is thinking with this 4th and 15 crap...

[fredtoast]

(05-26-2020, 12:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The game is being sissified. Someone might get an owie and go cry to mama or a lawyer.

Making the game safer is one thing, but the way things are headed they'll all be clothed in 5 inches of bubble wrap in 10 years time and even then the injury prone guys will still be injured just as much.

 

I wish every fan who ever said stupid shit like this would be forced to play ONE SNAP in an NFL game.

The NFL is ultra violent and every Sunday players break their bodies. But apparently that is not enough for the fans at home sitting on their soft couches in front of the TV.  If they don't see brain damage they are going to make fun of NFL players "getting owies".  

[SunsetBengal]

(05-29-2020, 11:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I wish every fan who ever said stupid shit like this would be forced to play ONE SNAP in an NFL game.

The NFL is ultra violent and every Sunday players break their bodies. But apparently that is not enough for the fans at home sitting on their soft couches in front of the TV.  If they don't see brain damage they are going to make fun of NFL players "getting owies".  

Meh, skateboarding can be an equally violent sport.  Especially if one is uncoordinated and has less than impeccable balance..