Joe speaks out

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 01:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Couldn't agree more brother. This shit has got to stop. My dad is a retired 28 year veteran of the Sheriff's Dept and he has been saying this forever. Every time he sees one of these killings, and then sees the officer(s) get off with no jail time, it makes his blood boil. He always says that those actions by the bad cops and lack of action by those who are suppose to hold them accountable destroys any progress that's being attempted by people in law enforcement who actually want to change things for the better. 

My dad always referred to himself as a 'peace officer' and that was always his goal. He's not alone. There are plenty of officers out there that despise what happens in these incidents and want it to stop. The problem is there are still way too many officers out there who's first instinct is to escalate a situation and assert their power, instead of trying to minimize the need for force and combative tactics. Another big problem is when fellow officers turn a blind eye, or even defend, the officers in these incidents...even when they know their actions were wrong. 

For every one step good officers make in the right direction, these scumbag cops set them back 100 steps with these incidents. 

Thanks for this Holic. That is the problem with some, there is this power monger thing going on and it needs to be shut down.

You should become a cop to be a 'peace officer' as you say and protect and serve the people. Not to have power over them.

That is the thing is this cop and a few that were there all had a past of these kind of acts, just not as terrible.

Need to see the signs, this comes from the top not being accountable.

Still, no rioting. Takes away from George Floyd and all the rest no matter their color.

I have never cared about what color someone is, think it is great. God loves wonderous variety lol

[HarleyDog]

(05-29-2020, 09:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I’ve always thought an alien invasion is exactly what this planet needs. Let’s unite against a common enemy lol

You have a point. Remember when 9-11 happened? It was almost like, for a short time, there was no black, white, asian, hispanic thing going on. It was as if we were all Americans. It was brief, but it was cool.

(05-29-2020, 11:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We need to be careful what we're teaching to all generations.

Very true. There seems to be some strong opinions which are forced without given the chance of choosing based on opposing opinions.

(05-29-2020, 11:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Looking at Burrow's twitter account and his recent retweets, this is obviously something that he feels very strongly about, so I'm sure we might hear more from him on this subject. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, including Joe. I think some people on Twitter are forgetting that...bashing Joe for sharing his opinion, while they're sharing their opinion on him sharing his opinion. 

I just downloaded twitter a few weeks ago. Joe Burrow is the only one I follow. Looks like I will be going there after this post and giving him my support.

(05-29-2020, 11:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What's Baker Mayfield tweeting about?  Maybe he's more their speed.

Progressive insurance. 

(05-30-2020, 12:00 AM)jason Wrote: Earlier you posted that you've been called racist for sayin' All Lives Matter". I don't think there's anything racist about that slogan, but it's tone deaf as ****. Furthermore... I don't think all lives matter. Has anyone shed a tear over that Jihadi John dude that was lopping off heads in ISIS propaganda videos? I haven't. The same goes for any ISIS member, people who hurt children, and a whole boatload of other scallywags...

Saying all lives matter as a response to a certain topic is exactly what Joe Burrow was talking about in that tweet. They aren't being heard on this topic. It should be understood that life is precious, but a certain segment of our society repeatedly watches as this kind of thing happens. Did that "officer" really get to go home for 5 days after murdering someone on camera? He did... That's why I can understand how they feel like they have to shout that their lives matter.

Using Jihdad John does not quite fit your point nor the discussion at hand, although I do understand your direction.

(05-30-2020, 12:43 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: On that, I can't help but notice the difference in reactions:


Joe speaks out about the poverty problems in SE rural Ohio --- praised by almost everyone for stepping up.

Joe speaks out about helping the black community --- a whole lot of people telling him to shut the hell up.

Maybe because Joe knows poverty in SE Ohio. People from large cities may not appreciate a small town boys opinion on racism. Who knows?

(05-30-2020, 01:11 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I also, along with pretty much everyone else I know, believe the officer used excessive force and believe he'll be found guilty of murder in a court of law.  But what you're suggesting here is a death sentence without a trial, and that is not what we want to ever happen in America. 

Much of the country is reacting in anger. Although the officer should be punished, he should have a fair trial even though George Floyd didn't get one. The officer is only the face of a larger problem. Killing him will not solve anything. Trying him can help address a problem. Unfortunately, when this is all over, and it will be, we will not be much better because historically, we seem to fail at learning from our hate.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 02:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You have a point. Remember when 9-11 happened? It was almost like, for a short time, there was no black, white, asian, hispanic thing going on. It was as if we were all Americans. It was brief, but it was cool.


Very true. There seems to be some strong opinions which are forced without given the chance of choosing based on opposing opinions.


I just downloaded twitter a few weeks ago. Joe Burrow is the only one I follow. Looks like I will be going there after this post and giving him my support.


Progressive insurance. 


Using Jihdad John does not quite fit your point nor the discussion at hand, although I do understand your direction.


Maybe because Joe knows poverty in SE Ohio. People from large cities may not appreciate a small town boys opinion on racism. Who knows?


Much of the country is reacting in anger. Although the officer should be punished, he should have a fair trial even though George Floyd didn't get one. The officer is only the face of a larger problem. Killing him will not solve anything. Trying him can help address a problem. Unfortunately, when this is all over, and it will be, we will not be much better because historically, we seem to fail at learning from our hate.

You are a wise dog, well said brother.

[Whatever]

(05-30-2020, 02:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for this Holic. That is the problem with some, there is this power monger thing going on and it needs to be shut down.

You should become a cop to be a 'peace officer' as you say and protect and serve the people. Not to have power over them.

That is the thing is this cop and a few that were there all had a past of these kind of acts, just not as terrible.

Need to see the signs, this comes from the top not being accountable.

Still, no rioting. Takes away from George Floyd and all the rest no matter their color.

I have never cared about what color someone is, think it is great. God loves wonderous variety lol

It's hard to stop the cops that come from that "high school bully" archetype because both recruitment and retention for most police departments is so poor.  The very job itself requires people who are not afraid of confrontation and a lot of those types get off on wielding power over others.  Ideally, you'd like to be able to fire them, but then you run your department short on manpower.  

The thing people need to realize is that you aren't winning an argument with a cop.  If they want to ticket or arrest you badly enough, they're going to ticket or arrest you.  The more you argue, the more they're going to want to get you for something.  If you did something wrong and just admit what you did, they're way more likely to show leniency.  If you didn't, fight it in court, not with the officer.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 03:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's hard to stop the cops that come from that "high school bully" archetype because both recruitment and retention for most police departments is so poor.  The very job itself requires people who are not afraid of confrontation and a lot of those types get off on wielding power over others.  Ideally, you'd like to be able to fire them, but then you run your department short on manpower.  

The thing people need to realize is that you aren't winning an argument with a cop.  If they want to ticket or arrest you badly enough, they're going to ticket or arrest you.  The more you argue, the more they're going to want to get you for something.  If you did something wrong and just admit what you did, they're way more likely to show leniency.  If you didn't, fight it in court, not with the officer.  

So true and I need to bump your post that got buried.

Do not resist even if you are right. It just doesn't help anyone. But if you are compliant and the cop is wrong you are in the right
and can win. The thing is they don't want to shoot people or hurt people for the most part, but there is always a bad seed that 
needs to be rooted out. Too bad this scumbag wasn't rooted out sooner.

But that doesn't give these rioters the right to do what they are doing to the innocents. There are a lot of innocent people and 
cops that are being attacked wrongfully, disgusting. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-29-2020, 08:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: African Americans are statistically more likely to resist arrest.  Because of that, they are more likely to be slain while being taken into custody.

In '15, San Francisco did a study on those charged with resisting arrest for misdemeanor charges.  While African Americans made up only 6% of the population, they accounted for 45% of those cases.  White/Hispanics made up roughly half of the population and accounted for 39% of these cases.  Asians accounted for only 3% of those cases despite accounting for 1/3 of the population.

You basically have a self-perpetuating cycle.  Police tend to be more aggressive with African American suspects because they have a tendency to resist arrest.  Because of that, African American suspects wind up getting needlessly killed, which makes African Americans distrust the cops and more likely to resist.  It's easy to say that the cops shouldn't be more aggressive with African Americans, but 43% of the police officers murdered in the line of duty in '15 were murdered by African Americans. That number is also vastly out of whack compared to the 13% of the population African Americans represent. It's easy to say when it's not our asses out there.

Unfortunately, there are a large number of cultural and socio-economic factors that play into all of this.  There are no easy solutions.  

Bumping Whatever's post.

[*jason*]

(05-30-2020, 01:28 PM)Destro Wrote: More like what anyone else might have to go through. Rapist, child molesters, homosexuals all go to jail, but since he is charged with killing someone he should have special protection. If you are a Blood and kill a Crip, you don't get home detention because other Crips in jail might come for you. Maybe keep him on 23 hour lockdown, but charge of murder is a charge of murder. 

High profile guys don't really go into general population anymore... I think this dbag qualifies. I know here in Ohio the sex offenders, and the other piles of garbage are housed separately from the other inmates now too.

[HarleyDog]

(05-30-2020, 03:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's hard to stop the cops that come from that "high school bully" archetype because both recruitment and retention for most police departments is so poor.  The very job itself requires people who are not afraid of confrontation and a lot of those types get off on wielding power over others.  Ideally, you'd like to be able to fire them, but then you run your department short on manpower.  

The thing people need to realize is that you aren't winning an argument with a cop.  If they want to ticket or arrest you badly enough, they're going to ticket or arrest you.  The more you argue, the more they're going to want to get you for something.  If you did something wrong and just admit what you did, they're way more likely to show leniency.  If you didn't, fight it in court, not with the officer.  

Cops are human. They deal with a lot of disrespect and unnecessary BS. I've given a few police officers some unnecessary grief myself in my younger days and very surprised I wasn't taken to the woodshed. There are several issues which should be addressed. Although not much of this pertains to the case at hand, maybe some of it does. Who knows? Such a crazy, sad, unfortunate and unnecessary situation we find ourselves in right now as a nation. We are looking in a mirror and we don't like what we see. Unfortunately, Chaos does nothing but lead the discussion in a different direction then where it should be. Once the streets are cleared and the fires are extinguished and the shattered windows replaced, we can then address the wrong which was done to George Floyd. Right now, it's no longer about him because violence silences reason and many who are doing the rioting probably don't even know his name. Sad really.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-30-2020, 02:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You have a point. Remember when 9-11 happened? It was almost like, for a short time, there was no black, white, asian, hispanic thing going on. It was as if we were all Americans. It was brief, but it was cool.

Lol not sure the combined hate for Islam is exactly what I meant but I get what you’re saying. Definitely the greatest feeling of a united country during my lifetime.

[*jason*]

(05-30-2020, 02:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You have a point. Remember when 9-11 happened? It was almost like, for a short time, there was no black, white, asian, hispanic thing going on. It was as if we were all Americans. It was brief, but it was cool.


Very true. There seems to be some strong opinions which are forced without given the chance of choosing based on opposing opinions.


I just downloaded twitter a few weeks ago. Joe Burrow is the only one I follow. Looks like I will be going there after this post and giving him my support.


Progressive insurance. 


Using Jihdad John does not quite fit your point nor the discussion at hand, although I do understand your direction.


Maybe because Joe knows poverty in SE Ohio. People from large cities may not appreciate a small town boys opinion on racism. Who knows?


Much of the country is reacting in anger. Although the officer should be punished, he should have a fair trial even though George Floyd didn't get one. The officer is only the face of a larger problem. Killing him will not solve anything. Trying him can help address a problem. Unfortunately, when this is all over, and it will be, we will not be much better because historically, we seem to fail at learning from our hate.

Isn't it sad that it takes something like a big ass terrorist attack to pull our heads outta our rears, and realize we're all really on the same side?

It is nice though to see just about universal condemnation of what happened to Floyd. It shows we haven't completely lost our damned minds.

[Whatever]

(05-30-2020, 03:39 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Cops are human. They deal with a lot of disrespect and unnecessary BS. I've given a few police officers some unnecessary grief myself in my younger days and very surprised I wasn't taken to the woodshed. There are several issues which should be addressed. Although not much of this pertains to the case at hand, maybe some of it does. Who knows? Such a crazy, sad, unfortunate and unnecessary situation we find ourselves in right now as a nation. We are looking in a mirror and we don't like what we see. Unfortunately, Chaos does nothing but lead the discussion in a different direction then where it should be. Once the streets are cleared and the fires are extinguished and the shattered windows replaced, we can then address the wrong which was done to George Floyd. Right now, it's no longer about him because violence silences reason and many who are doing the rioting probably don't even know his name. Sad really.

Being a police officer is one of the most high stress jobs there is.  I mean, they regularly deal with the scum of society, are put in life or death situations, and are vilified by modern culture.

Unfortunately, we have a huge double standard in our society.  If a person of a specific race, religion, social group, or sexual orientation commits a crime, it's not politically correct to generalize their actions towards the group as a whole.  If a cop commits a crime, though, it's perfectly acceptable within our current society to paint all of law enforcement with the same brush.

The current rioting is counterproductive.  It quickly erodes sympathy most people would have for the black community when they are out there looting and destroying the property of parties that are innocent and not even associated with the killing of George Floyd.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-30-2020, 05:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: Being a police officer is one of the most high stress jobs there is.  I mean, they regularly deal with the scum of society, are put in life or death situations, and are vilified by modern culture.

Unfortunately, we have a huge double standard in our society.  If a person of a specific race, religion, social group, or sexual orientation commits a crime, it's not politically correct to generalize their actions towards the group as a whole.  If a cop commits a crime, though, it's perfectly acceptable within our current society to paint all of law enforcement with the same brush.

The current rioting is counterproductive.  It quickly erodes sympathy most people would have for the black community when they are out there looting and destroying the property of parties that are innocent and not even associated with the killing of George Floyd.  

Yes sir.

[CJD]

(05-29-2020, 08:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: African Americans are statistically more likely to resist arrest.  Because of that, they are more likely to be slain while being taken into custody.

In '15, San Francisco did a study on those charged with resisting arrest for misdemeanor charges.  While African Americans made up only 6% of the population, they accounted for 45% of those cases.  White/Hispanics made up roughly half of the population and accounted for 39% of these cases.  Asians accounted for only 3% of those cases despite accounting for 1/3 of the population.

You basically have a self-perpetuating cycle.  Police tend to be more aggressive with African American suspects because they have a tendency to resist arrest.  Because of that, African American suspects wind up getting needlessly killed, which makes African Americans distrust the cops and more likely to resist.  It's easy to say that the cops shouldn't be more aggressive with African Americans, but 43% of the police officers murdered in the line of duty in '15 were murdered by African Americans. That number is also vastly out of whack compared to the 13% of the population African Americans represent. It's easy to say when it's not our asses out there.

Unfortunately, there are a large number of cultural and socio-economic factors that play into all of this.  There are no easy solutions.  

It doesn't matter at all that black people resist more than white people. That statement ignores the history of police violence towards black people and it is the policeman's job to break that cycle, not the black people.

We live in a world where a cop can claim that he was scared and feared for his life as a reason to killing an unarmed person and then that same unarmed person is told (or rather, people who are outraged at his death are told) that if they just followed the rules and didn't resist arrest/panic, they'd still be alive.

We're literally victim blaming victims of police brutality and then wondering why people are pissed off at the police right now.

Police are paid and trained to de-escalate situations. It is not the job of the victims of police brutality to de-escalate the situation. The victims are unarmed, untrained and scared. It should be expected that they act irrationally when a gun (or taser, or whatever) is being waved in their face. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-30-2020, 03:43 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Lol not sure the combined hate for Islam is exactly what I meant but I get what you’re saying. Definitely the greatest feeling of a united country during my lifetime.

Yeah, 9/11 wasn't really a great unifer of Americans if you were Muslim or you weren't psyched to send the troops into an endless war with unrelated countries and entities...ah, but that's getting into a whole 'nother ball of wax.

(05-30-2020, 03:53 PM)jason Wrote: Isn't it sad that it takes something like a big ass terrorist attack to pull our heads outta our rears, and realize we're all really on the same side?

Maybe it was different for me, but I recall the post-9/11 division being between Americans who wanted to go put a boot in the asses of "who did this" people who thought creating a power vacuum in the middle east (again) would be a bad idea (again), and people disagreeing over whether the government should be monitoring us or not.

It could be just coincidental timing or me being flat-out wrong, but 9/11 seemed like the first thing that really emphasized the left vs right in my mind.  The liberals were going to just surrender and leave us open to attack and the neo-cons were going to send poor people off to fight and die in an endless war for oil (with god's blessing, of course).

But I was in college and later grad school outside of NYC during all this so it's possible things seemed a lot more unified and awesome elsewhere.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-29-2020, 06:25 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Your logic is warped. Based on your statistics deaths by cops are broken down as:


White 48.50%
Black 30.80%
Hispanic 20.70%

Meanwhile, the U.S population is broken down as:

White 60.40%
Black 12.10%
Hispanic 16.70%

It is the disproportionate number of blacks killed by police that is outrageous. The ratio of blacks killed by cops is 30 deaths per million while the ratio of whites killed by cops is 12 deaths per million.

Thank you Joe, and many others, for recognizing this is unacceptable in our society and the media should continue to put the spotlight on this issue.

You can't break this down by race. 

It's true there is some racism involved, just like there is some bad cops. 

What it all boils down to is poverty.

Those in poverty have less to lose than those of middle class and up. 

Poverty %'s
8.1 % white non-hispanic
20.8% Black
17.6% Hispanic 

White gets a higher % in the crimes because they out number the other races involved, but bottom line is poverty. 

So while it's commendable to speak out against racism, people like Joe aren't really addressing the issue correctly. 

[*jason*]

(05-30-2020, 05:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, 9/11 wasn't really a great unifer of Americans if you were Muslim or you weren't psyched to send the troops into an endless war with unrelated countries and entities...ah, but that's getting into a whole 'nother ball of wax.



Maybe it was different for me, but I recall the post-9/11 division being between Americans who wanted to go put a boot in the asses of "who did this" people who thought creating a power vacuum in the middle east (again) would be a bad idea (again), and people disagreeing over whether the government should be monitoring us or not.

It could be just coincidental timing or me being flat-out wrong, but 9/11 seemed like the first thing that really emphasized the left vs right in my mind.  The liberals were going to just surrender and leave us open to attack and the neo-cons were going to send poor people off to fight and die in an endless war for oil (with god's blessing, of course).

But I was in college and later grad school outside of NYC during all this so it's possible things seemed a lot more unified and awesome elsewhere.

I remember that a year or so later maybe... But plenty of "liberals" signed right up for putting boots in asses without asking too many questions.

[jfkbengals]

(05-30-2020, 02:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You have a point. Remember when 9-11 happened? It was almost like, for a short time, there was no black, white, asian, hispanic thing going on. It was as if we were all Americans. It was brief, but it was cool.

Not true at all.  There was a TON of racism as a result of it.  I'm a guy of mostly European descent, but have Middle Eastern heritage from my grandmother, and I do have some of the physical features as a result.  I personally had at least a dozen incidents of racist ass wipes that I didn't know at all accuse me of being a terrorist or sympathizer because of my features, sometimes even physically stopping me in public to ask if I had ever been to the mid-east.  As I was in the restaurant business at the time, I got to witness a number of incidents of people of Middle Eastern, Indian, or Pakistani/Afghani descent minding their business get accosted and falsely accused of things.  I have to admit that I would get disappointed when they left on their own when they were kicked out, because I preferred the cops doing it.  By the way, this wasn't in a rough and tumble establishment.  Rather this was a family restaurant.

[*Nately120*]

(05-30-2020, 06:19 PM)jason Wrote: I remember that a year or so later maybe... But plenty of "liberals" signed right up for putting boots in asses without asking too many questions.

Perhaps.  I just felt like the unity wore off after it was time for another Bush to go back after Saddam Hussein and if you didn't like that idea you weren't getting behind the troops and so on and so forth.  Then it was the 2004 election with "draft dodger" Bush versus "fake purple hearts" Kerry and things got really cliched in the right vs left way they still are.

[jfkbengals]

(05-29-2020, 08:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: African Americans are statistically more likely to resist arrest.  Because of that, they are more likely to be slain while being taken into custody.

In '15, San Francisco did a study on those charged with resisting arrest for misdemeanor charges.  While African Americans made up only 6% of the population, they accounted for 45% of those cases.  White/Hispanics made up roughly half of the population and accounted for 39% of these cases.  Asians accounted for only 3% of those cases despite accounting for 1/3 of the population.

You basically have a self-perpetuating cycle.  Police tend to be more aggressive with African American suspects because they have a tendency to resist arrest.  Because of that, African American suspects wind up getting needlessly killed, which makes African Americans distrust the cops and more likely to resist.  It's easy to say that the cops shouldn't be more aggressive with African Americans, but 43% of the police officers murdered in the line of duty in '15 were murdered by African Americans. That number is also vastly out of whack compared to the 13% of the population African Americans represent. It's easy to say when it's not our asses out there.

Unfortunately, there are a large number of cultural and socio-economic factors that play into all of this.  There are no easy solutions.  

Wasn't this the claim of the arresting officers, that he was resisting arrest?  Even though every witness and the body cam footage said he was not?  What you posted is exactly a part of the problem.  The disproportionate cases of resistance are because that is often what the guy is arrested for when the charges are false.  Why are so many black arrests filmed now?  One reason is brutality, the other is because the officer arrests a black guy who didn't do a damn thing with a claim that he resisted arrest, and the witnesses then show the video to prove the truth.

[HarleyDog]

(05-30-2020, 06:58 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Not true at all.  There was a TON of racism as a result of it.  I'm a guy of mostly European descent, but have Middle Eastern heritage from my grandmother, and I do have some of the physical features as a result.  I personally had at least a dozen incidents of racist ass wipes that I didn't know at all accuse me of being a terrorist or sympathizer because of my features, sometimes even physically stopping me in public to ask if I had ever been to the mid-east.  As I was in the restaurant business at the time, I got to witness a number of incidents of people of Middle Eastern, Indian, or Pakistani/Afghani descent minding their business get accosted and falsely accused of things.  I have to admit that I would get disappointed when they left on their own when they were kicked out, because I preferred the cops doing it.  By the way, this wasn't in a rough and tumble establishment.  Rather this was a family restaurant.

Sorry to read this. It's unfortunate that you experienced this and I understand why you disagree with my view. For me it was a different experience. I'm glad I had the chance to experience the non-hate which seemed to occur.