Andrew Whitworth on Bengals deal

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-05-2020, 11:35 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No. Stop it, Truck. It wasn't hindsight if nearly everyone saw it coming.

Whitworth was coming off back-to-back Pro Bowls and he was 1 year removed from 1st Team All-Pro (and 2nd Team All-Pro the year before that).

The LT heir was Ogbuehi who was coming off 677 nauseating-to-watch snaps on offense in his 2nd year. 

Everyone (besides apparently the Bengals FO) knew it was a terrible idea to replace an All-Pro still performing at an extremely high level with Ogbuehi. That's not hindsight, that is foresight and common sense.

Cute that you're telling me to stop it .

Sorry, but you have to play Devil's Advocate in this situation (which, frankly, I don't know if you EVER have, in regards to this team).

I'm still contending that is PA was not a coach on this team, Andrew Whitworth would still be our LT.

But at the time, it was not a bad move: in hindsight, it absolutely was.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-05-2020, 12:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The issue with the Whitworth situation is two things:
1) They assumed Whitworth would decline (rapidly) given his age and trend of other OL even though he really hadn't declined to that point.
2) They invested a 1st round and 2nd round pick in OT in 2015, expecting/hoping at least one of Ogbuehi or Fisher would emerge as a quality LT replacement by the time Whitworth departed.

Neither of those things happened. They went off expectations, not actual facts for those players at the time. It really bit them, and was probably one, if not the biggest reason for the decline of the team.

Yep, it was the perfect (bad) storm for the Bengals.

I'd also add to your first point I believe they thought they sorta had Whit over a barrel, 1. nobody would want him. 2. He'd stay because of loyalty at a low price.

And to your 2nd point PA was probably telling them " I've seen Og and Fisher open ketchup bottles and I can coach these guys up". And ignored the fact that Ogbuehi had been hot garbage his first season.

[RASCAL]

(06-05-2020, 03:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You still butthurt, Clark? Some of you OSU homers really know how to hold a grudge! LOL

butthurt? naw. Just amazed at your lack of football knowledge. That is all!

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-05-2020, 10:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It absolutely was handled terribly. Whit was not a normal player, he was an all time great, all pro level player that should have been retained at all costs. LT is the 2nd most important position on the field, and his departure has been an absolute killer for this team. But I’m glad some of you felt haggling over some of Mike’s money was worth losing him over.

Also, we’re not the Pats. If it was as easy as just copying the way they do things everyone would be winning championships. And let’s see how they do now that they’re moving on from their own aging star player...

It was handled badly for sure ! Had Ogbuehi showed any promise at all it would have made more sense and I could go a little easier on them. But when Og had shown he would struggle blocking a fire hydrant ummm……..

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-05-2020, 01:15 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Cute that you're telling me to stop it .

Sorry, but you have to play Devil's Advocate in this situation (which, frankly, I don't know if you EVER have, in regards to this team).

I'm still contending that is PA was not a coach on this team, Andrew Whitworth would still be our LT.

But at the time, it was not a bad move: in hindsight, it absolutely was.

You watched that video and what you took from it was that PA was the problem with retaining Whit? Lol... might want to re-watch it.

At the time, it was 100% a bad move no matter how many times you want to pretend it was "hindsight". They got rid of a guy playing at a All-Pro/Pro Bowl level for Ogbuehi even after watching how terrible he was in 2016.

The Patriots drafted Jimmy Garroppolo in the 2nd round because Tom Brady was going to be 37 that year. Tom Brady kept playing at a very high level, so did the Patriots let Brady walk off to a different team so they could start Jimmy G? NO. They got rid of Jimmy and Brady played for 6 more seasons for them before the wheels fell off. They won 3 Super Bowls with Brady after drafting Jimmy G.

Don't get rid of players performing at their peak for unknown unprovens. It's not hindsight. It's common sense. They didn't even have a massive injury like the Colts did with Manning to explain away their incompetence in handling the situation.

[grampahol]

It's gotta suck to have to try to predict the longevity of any athlete. We've seen guys who appear on the absolute top of their game only to suddenly fall to pieces for no apparent reason and we see guys nobody would give a plug nickel for stick around and later earn millions. Just look at a young pitcher with a triple digit fastball and a million dollar change up and come spring he's not worth the price of the fabric for the number on his jersey.  Some age far better than others and some age out before they can shave..

[SunsetBengal]

Just a friendly reminder that this IS Jungle Noise, where we're all fans of the same team. Please keep responses to the topic at hand, or to the argument which you are taking part in, rather than directed at members in a personal fashion.


Carry on..

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-05-2020, 11:49 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You're just plain wrong, and your whole argument is based on hindsight. Whit was at an age where linemen start falling off drastically. Unless you think the front office should have some magical crystal ball to see into the future and see that Whit would be an absolute anomaly and not fall off, then the decision to go with younger players was the smart one. Those players did not work out, but that is a different issue.

No it wasn’t. You are just plain wrong. It was clear said younger players were absolute trash. There was nothing smart about handing them starting positions.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-05-2020, 02:20 PM)RASCAL Wrote: butthurt? naw. Just amazed at your lack of football knowledge. That is all!

Funny how you were never “amazed by my lack of football knowledge” before I was slightly critical of OSU that one time...

[Destro]

I think it was fine for the Bengals to start planning for Whit to be gone and looking for a replacement. I don't think it was a mistake. Having a stuffed pillowcase as a replacement for him was a horrible mistake that they botched horribly.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-05-2020, 12:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You claimed Whit was basically threatening to retire (never happened).

I’m all for moving on, and not dragging up the past, but if we’re going to discuss it let’s not make things up to excuse the team on how terribly it was handled.

never said threatened.. but he did mention he was unsure how much longer he would play... so yes he mentioned retirement

[RASCAL]

(06-05-2020, 08:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Funny how you were never “amazed by my lack of football knowledge” before I was slightly critical of OSU that one time...

until your ignorant rant about Young, I wasn't sure, but after your rant you removed any doubt!!!

[yellowxdiscipline]

(06-04-2020, 01:13 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/andrew-whitworth-bengals-offer

Interesting read. I thought the Bengals were offering just as much as everyone else, but I guess they decided to low ball him. Not that it matters now.

The wound that will never heal

[SladeX]

The one that bothered me was letting Zeitler walk.
Pat answers like "we don't pay guards ", "we don't use high picks on safeties", etc crawl all over me.
I
Fu$#÷@g
HATE
Lazy ass
Pat Answers.

And no, not inclined to let it go completely. This kind of so called thinking is endemic in my company, as well.

I have urges to choke the living s*** out people displaying this kind of attitude.

Hopefully those days in Bengaldom are finally in the rear view mirror.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-07-2020, 05:36 PM)RASCAL Wrote: until your ignorant rant about Young, I wasn't sure, but after your rant you removed any doubt!!!

My “rant” about Young disappearing in some big games down the stretch came directly from Anthony Munoz. I guess he “doesn’t know football” either...LOL

https://youtu.be/9L88_ckQYH0

[3wt]

(06-05-2020, 03:09 AM)Benton Wrote: Good points, but, just to play devil's advocate, there's the flip side. We've seen brown keep players past their prime because of loyalty. I think Katie and co were looking at it through a business lense: he's most likely got a couple good seasons before he starts declining and replacement (they hoped) was already on the roster.of course, it turned out to be the bad decision in hindsight as his shelf life was better and the replacement was garbage.

And I appreciate your point as well.   At some point you have to establish a pattern of good judgment vs. a perfect track record.   They don't have the best, and the new information shared by Whit displays a chain of bad decisions and shows a poor handle on the situation.   I think most of us felt it was too soon to move on from Whit, regardless of what we had in house - and that was demonstrably poor.   The fact that Mike Brown had to rescue us from a catastrophic display of poor judgment by Troy and Katie screams really poor perception of the player and his abilities - especially after he performed as he did for Mike's one year deal.   They were rescued and screwed it up again.

Then there's the fact that literally every other team they were dealing with significantly valued him more than us.   It just indicates the singularity of their poor judgment.  Plus they had already determined they would not offer Zeitler a contract.   That makes the odds of a good turnout even worse.

The more I hear about the situation the more upset I am about what happened.   It was a colossally poor decision. 

[RASCAL]

(06-05-2020, 08:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Funny how you were never “amazed by my lack of football knowledge” before I was slightly critical of OSU that one time...

Ok OK I apologize. So, what do you think of the Chase Young pick?  J/K