Opting Out?

[fredtoast]

(07-28-2020, 08:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We can just say they get $350K. There's no way the NFL is going to say, your justification is not valid. 


WTS, I can easily see law suits to demand full salary. 

$200K is a HUGE amount of money to me.

But it is about 5 percent of one percent of the Bengals revenue last year ($380 million).

That is like 50 dollars to someone who makes $100K a year.

I don't think any teams are going to be fighting a player to save that amount.

[*pally*]

(07-28-2020, 08:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We can just say they get $350K. There's no way the NFL is going to say, your justification is not valid. 


WTS, I can easily see law suits to demand full salary. 

The player has to have a documented medical reason to get the $350,000.  So someone opting out because of a family issue gets $150,000.  Someone opting out because of a medical issue puts them personally at risk gets the $350,000.  Now there could be an argument over whether a specific condition puts someone at risk.  For example, cancer surviver Marcus Cannon has opted out.  Does a cured case of cancer count as a current risk?  Probably not in and of itself if the NFL got nit-picky.  But if the treatment left permanent damage or side effects then it could change the equation.

[*bfine32*]

(07-28-2020, 09:32 PM)pally Wrote: The player has to have a documented medical reason to get the $350,000.  So someone opting out because of a family issue gets $150,000.  Someone opting out because of a medical issue puts them personally at risk gets the $350,000.  Now there could be an argument over whether a specific condition puts someone at risk.  For example, cancer surviver Marcus Cannon has opted out.  Does a cured case of cancer count as a current risk?  Probably not in and of itself if the NFL got nit-picky.  But if the treatment left permanent damage or side effects then it could change the equation.

Most every NFL player to include our kicker can claim obesity. Pretty sure Cannon can. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-28-2020, 09:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Most every NFL player to include our kicker can claim obesity. Pretty sure Cannon can. 

Look at the list of conditions to qualify. It's not as easy as you think.  

The most common condition on there is high blood pressure, the rest are pretty specific.

[*bfine32*]

(07-28-2020, 09:46 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Look at the list of conditions to qualify. It's not as easy as you think.  

The most common condition on there is high blood pressure, the rest are pretty specific.

I've seen the CDC list of High Risk conditions and obesity(BMI 30+) is among them. I have seen reports where the NFL is not going to honor that one, but good luck with that. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-28-2020, 06:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thinking the same, doesn't make sense to opt out. Like you said, probably safer to play and take your Hyrdrochloriquin (spelling?)

Hydroxychloroquine isn’t indicated for Covid 19 because it isn’t proven to help. There is no evidence to support its use as a prophylactic. The FDA revoked its Emergency Use Authorization because of safety concerns.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-28-2020, 09:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Most every NFL player to include our kicker can claim obesity. Pretty sure Cannon can. 

If obesity is a comorbidity, how long before Piggy opts out...then in week 11 with his team 5-5 and facing a bunch of teams with no healthy players, he miraculously opts back in to cheers and he forever is known as the COVID WARRIOR.  

[Sled21]

(07-28-2020, 11:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hydroxychloroquine isn’t indicated for Covid 19 because it isn’t proven to help. There is no evidence to support its use as a prophylactic. The FDA revoked its Emergency Use Authorization because of safety concerns.

And the study that caused it to be revoked has now been debunked. Front Line doctors across the globe are saying that if given early, the results are very good. You just have to get it in the early stages.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/04/lancet-retracts-major-covid-19-paper-that-raised-safety-concerns-about-malaria-drugs/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hydroxychloroquine-given-early-helped-coronavirus-patients-study-finds-11593729664

It's not a magic bullet, but if I catch covid, I'm requesting it.

[Wes Mantooth]

In case anyone wants to know...

To be designated a higher-risk opt-out, a player must have a diagnosis reflected in their medical records of at least one of the following factors, which are based upon a modified list of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) risk factors list: cancer; chronic kidney disease; COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease); immunocompromised state from solid organ transplant; serious heart conditions, such as heart failure, coronary artery disease, or cardiomyopathies; sickle cell disease; type 2 diabetes mellitus; asthma; cerebrovascular disease; cystic fibrosis; hypertension or high blood pressure; immunocompromised state from blood or bone marrow transplant, immune deficiencies, HIV, use of corticosteroids, or use of other immune weakening medicines; neurologic conditions, such as dementia; liver disease; or pulmonary fibrosis.

It is not mandatory for a "higher risk" player to opt out. A higher-risk opt-out will receive an accrued season toward free agency and all benefits and minimum salary credit for a credited season and is also eligible for a stipend of $350,000, which will not constitute a salary advance.

[*pally*]

For NFL players the most obvious concerns would be asthma and type 2 diabetes. There are a handful of cancer survivors in the league. Statistically there is at least 1 player on every team with sickle cell trait. There may be a couple with HIV. Most of the others are likely not going to be an issue. Odds are if they have those conditions, they would never pass a physical to play in the first place

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-29-2020, 09:06 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And the study that caused it to be revoked has now been debunked. Front Line doctors across the globe are saying that if given early, the results are very good. You just have to get it in the early stages.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/04/lancet-retracts-major-covid-19-paper-that-raised-safety-concerns-about-malaria-drugs/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hydroxychloroquine-given-early-helped-coronavirus-patients-study-finds-11593729664

It's not a magic bullet, but if I catch covid, I'm requesting it.

The FDA EUA for hydroxychloroquine wasn’t revoked based upon a single study, but rather a consensus of all the studies.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and

https://www.fda.gov/media/138946/download

In addition, the Infectious Disease Society of America recommends against its use except as part of a hospital based clinical due to dearth of evidence it works combined with its known cardiac adverse effects.

https://www.idsociety.org/practice-guideline/covid-19-guideline-treatment-and-management/#toc-3

You can request hydroxychloroquine for Covid 19, but who in their right mind will prescribe it in the face of recommendations not to do so?

The FDA, CDC, NIH, IDSA, WHO, AMA, APA, ASHSP, ACP, AAP, etc all recommend against its use. So who does recommend its use?

And without a subscription to the WSJ I can’t find the study. Can you give me the title so I can find it?

[Sled21]

(07-29-2020, 11:49 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The FDA EUA for hydroxychloroquine wasn’t revoked based upon a single study, but rather a consensus of all the studies.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and

https://www.fda.gov/media/138946/download

In addition, the Infectious Disease Society of America recommends against its use except as part of a hospital based clinical due to dearth of evidence it works combined with its known cardiac adverse effects.

https://www.idsociety.org/practice-guideline/covid-19-guideline-treatment-and-management/#toc-3

You can request hydroxychloroquine for Covid 19, but who in their right mind will prescribe it in the face of recommendations not to do so?

The FDA, CDC, NIH, IDSA, WHO, AMA, APA, ASHSP, ACP, AAP, etc all recommend against its use. So who does recommend its use?

And without a subscription to the WSJ I can’t find the study. Can you give me the title so I can find it?

This is not the thread to discuss it without derailing it, but numerous front line physicians who are actually treating patients are swearing by it. Good enough for me. Right to Try. It's not that hard to fine online, many stories on it.... this is just a couple.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/06/16/local-doctors-have-opposing-take-on-using-hydroxychloroquine-to-treat-covid-19-patients/

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-29-2020, 11:52 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is not the thread to discuss it without derailing it, but numerous front line physicians who are actually treating patients are swearing by it. Good enough for me. Right to Try. It's not that hard to fine online.

There's a lot of conflicting information about whether it's effective on it's own, or if it's better used in combination with other things.

Here's what I have found to be the best combination through extensive research:

-1 part hydroxychloroquine
-1 part Scrubbing Bubbles
-A Heaping tablespoon of cayene pepper
-2 Jolly Ranchers
-16 oz of water mixed with 3 squirts of Mio Rasberry Lemonade.

Give it a shot, and see if it works.  It can't hurt.  But whatever you do, do NOT drink it after midnight!!!!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-29-2020, 09:49 AM)pally Wrote: For NFL players the most obvious concerns would be asthma and type 2 diabetes. There are a handful of cancer survivors in the league. Statistically there is at least 1 player on every team with sickle cell trait. There may be a couple with HIV. Most of the others are likely not going to be an issue. Odds are if they have those conditions, they would never pass a physical to play in the first place

The NFL doesn’t have a standard for what is disqualifying. Therefore it is totally up to the discretion of the examining physician. (Deuce Lutui failed Bengals physical and went right back to the Cardinals and passed their physical.)

If a NFL player has any of the conditions you listed, odds are they would pass a sports physical as long as the condition is treated adequately.

[Sled21]

(07-29-2020, 11:59 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: There's a lot of conflicting information about whether it's effective on it's own, or if it's better used in combination with other things.

Here's what I have found to be the best combination through extensive research:

-1 part hydroxychloroquine
-1 part Scrubbing Bubbles
-A Heaping tablespoon of cayene pepper
-2 Jolly Ranchers
-16 oz of water mixed with 3 squirts of Mio Rasberry Lemonade.

Give it a shot, and see if it works.  It can't hurt.  But whatever you do, do NOT drink it after midnight!!!!

I have no doubt that's what you think.....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-28-2020, 11:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hydroxychloroquine isn’t indicated for Covid 19 because it isn’t proven to help. There is no evidence to support its use as a prophylactic. The FDA revoked its Emergency Use Authorization because of safety concerns.

Eh, many doctors say different there Fauci...

Thanks for the spelling help though Breech.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-29-2020, 11:52 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is not the thread to discuss it without derailing it, but numerous front line physicians who are actually treating patients are swearing by it. Good enough for me. Right to Try. It's not that hard to fine online, many stories on it.... this is just a couple.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/06/16/local-doctors-have-opposing-take-on-using-hydroxychloroquine-to-treat-covid-19-patients/

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

So you couldn’t find a single medical organization that recommends it’s use.

The study you listed isn’t a randomized, placebo controlled, double blind study. It’s an observation study that didn’t account for patients receiving corticosteroids such as dexamethasone. This is why you shouldn’t listen to the recommendations of economist and real estate agents without any medical credentials. But, rather medical doctors like Dr. Fauci.

Dr. Joseph Varon from your article uses the MATH+ protocol to treat Covid 19 patients which includes methylprenisolone, ascorbic acid, thiamine, and heparin. But, he also reports using hydroxychloroquine 65% of the time. He advocates throwing the kitchen sink at patients and admits he doesn’t know which of those medications actually helps. From the RECOVERY studies we know dexamethasone helps while hydroxychloroquine doesn’t. Four weeks ago he claimed a 95% success rate with MATH+. But, in an interview today says he has signed more death certificates this week than at any point of his career.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/treatment-protocol/

https://covid19criticalcare.com/team/

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/07/29/us/29reuters-health-coronavirus-usa-texas.html

Listen for yourself . . .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/shows/houston-matters/2020/06/30/377136/special-edition-dr-joseph-varon-dr-umair-shah-and-professor-dietrich-von-biedenfeld-june-30-2020/amp/

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-29-2020, 12:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, many doctors say different there Fauci...

Fauci doesn’t work for the FDA or any of the other organizations I listed except for the NIH. And Fauci practices evidence based medicine, not anecdotes.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-29-2020, 11:59 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: There's a lot of conflicting information about whether it's effective on it's own, or if it's better used in combination with other things.

Here's what I have found to be the best combination through extensive research:

-1 part hydroxychloroquine
-1 part Scrubbing Bubbles
-A Heaping tablespoon of cayene pepper
-2 Jolly Ranchers
-16 oz of water mixed with 3 squirts of Mio Rasberry Lemonade.

Give it a shot, and see if it works.  It can't hurt.  But whatever you do, do NOT drink it after midnight!!!!

The bold is true. There are many reasons for the conflicting information. But, the more evidence we collect the more informed our decisions can be based upon a consensus of all the information we have up to that point. Such is the case with hydroxychloroquine’s use for Covid 19.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-29-2020, 12:25 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Fauci doesn’t work for the FDA or any of the other organizations I listed except for the NIH. And Fauci practices evidence based medicine, not anecdotes.

Fauci has a noodle arm.