Carlos speaks out about Racism and Bengals

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 03:31 PM)PhilHos Wrote:  Forcing Mike Brown to say even louder that 'racism is bad' is not going to do anything to solve the problem of racism in America.

Sure it will.  You have already agreed to public awareness and acceptance is an issue with racism.  So the more public awareness and acceptance we have the more it will help the problem.

What do you suggest should be done?  You accuse minorities of not listening to your ideas, but I have not heard any of these ideas. 

 Look at how many people in this thread are claiming there is not even a problem that needs to be addressed.  They are saying that claims of racism are just the results stupidity or lies from minorities.  How should that issue be addressed?  Personally I think it might help for more white people, and especially those with a big platform like Mike Brown, to come out and agree that racism is a reality and needs to be addressed.  Until people are willing to agree it exists there are not going to be any resolutions.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 03:31 PM)PhilHos Wrote: When you first became an NFL fan, how many black players tried to become NFL QBs and were turned away?

Oh, I see.  There were just no black QBs or head coaches because no black guys wanted to be QBs or head coaches.  It couldn't have possibly been because of racists attitudes among white owners and head coaches.  It was all just the black guys fault for not asking.

I bet no black guy ever asked to play major league baseball before Jackie Robinson either.

[sandwedge]

(08-26-2020, 03:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap asked the officer and got no explanation like this.

This thread is turning into a perfect example of why we have so many racial issues in this country.  White people refuse to believe that anything racist ever happens unless it is on video.  This despite the fact that they have seen video of groups of angry white men marching and chanting "Blood and soil" and have seen a video of Ahmed Abrey getting murdered by white men and knowing that a white DA said there was no crime committed.

I guess this thread is headed to the "locked" category, and maybe it should.  But I am really disappointed at the number of people who are bending over backwards to call Dunlap a liar.  The guy has been nothing but a class act for over a decade, but as soon as he asks Mike Brown to take more steps to address racial injustice he is treated like a pariah.

So you're joking right? The area they were on had a closed sign posted along with the area the kids playing soccer were on, btw they were a diverse mixture of races playing soccer. They all had to leave, even the white kids playing soccer.. 

[Wes Mantooth]

Every time a thread toes the line of being closed, or goes right over the edge, you'll find Fred right in the middle of it.

He dominates non-football related topics like a prime Shaq in the paint. He's taken over more political debates and derailed more threads than Andre Smith has eaten cheeseburgers.

Welcome to Fred show, everyone!

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 04:07 PM)sandwedge Wrote: So you're joking right? The area they were on had a closed sign posted along with the area the kids playing soccer were on, btw they were a diverse mixture of races playing soccer. They all had to leave, even the white kids playing soccer.. 

No they did not.  Just the blacks and the mixed groups had to leave.  The group of all white guys were allowed to continue practicing.

So, not joking at all.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sure it will.  You have already agreed to public awareness and acceptance is an issue with racism.  So the more public awareness and acceptance we have the more it will help the problem.

Sure, but Mike Brown reiterating over and over again that 'racism is bad' is not going to lead to MORE public awareness or acceptance.

(08-26-2020, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What do you suggest should be done?  You accuse minorities of not listening to your ideas, but I have not heard any of these ideas. 

Try reading the ENTIRETY of my posts then.

(08-26-2020, 02:32 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You want to fix the problem? Let's address specific issues together. Let's continue to make it unacceptable to be racist in public. Let's reward inclusivity. Let's work TOGETHER not tell a whole group of individuals that their opinions don't count or shouldn't be heard or they're the problem or they don't understand the problem etc. etc. etc.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 03:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh, I see.  There were just no black QBs or head coaches because no black guys wanted to be QBs or head coaches.  It couldn't have possibly been because of racists attitudes among white owners and head coaches.  It was all just the black guys fault for not asking.

Didn't say that. I asked how many tried and were turned away. Even acknowledged that it happened (moreso in the 60s than in the 80s but still happened in both eras, I'm sure). But, why actually address the things I say when you can just make shit up.

You want to know why there is such division in America (and I'm not just talking about racism), is because people like you don't listen to what other people say. You just decide to make up what they said and then argue against that. Then you can NEVER be wrong! Give me a break.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 04:20 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Sure, but Mike Brown reiterating over and over again that 'racism is bad' is not going to lead to MORE public awareness or acceptance.

I disagree, but maybe that is why Dunlap wants him to do more than just that.  


Listen, we are starting to run in circles here.  You say we should make it unacceptable to be racists, but then you say that we can't do that by speaking out or saying racism is unacceptable.  So I have no idea what you are suggesting

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 04:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Didn't say that. I asked how many tried and were turned away. Even acknowledged that it happened (moreso in the 60s than in the 80s but still happened in both eras, I'm sure). But, why actually address the things I say when you can just make shit up.

You want to know why there is such division in America (and I'm not just talking about racism), is because people like you don't listen to what other people say. You just decide to make up what they said and then argue against that. Then you can NEVER be wrong! Give me a break.

You made up a question that shifted the blame from the white owners and coaches to the black victims of racism for "not asking".

And you knew it was 100% impossible for me to answer.

I listened to your question and i realized it was total BS.  But since you claim it was legitimate what is YOUR answer?  Zero?  One?  Maybe two?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-26-2020, 04:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Didn't say that. I asked how many tried and were turned away. Even acknowledged that it happened (moreso in the 60s than in the 80s but still happened in both eras, I'm sure). But, why actually address the things I say when you can just make shit up.

You want to know why there is such division in America (and I'm not just talking about racism), is because people like you don't listen to what other people say. You just decide to make up what they said and then argue against that. Then you can NEVER be wrong! Give me a break.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-26-2020, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  Look at how many people in this thread are claiming there is not even a problem that needs to be addressed.  They are saying that claims of racism are just the results stupidity or lies from minorities.

I honestly can't tell if you're purposely lying or if you somehow convince yourself that these stances are being taken.

Either way, it's weird.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-26-2020, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So I have no idea what you are suggesting

You don't seem to have a great understanding what anyone is suggesting in this thread.

All I see from you are generalizations, sweeping statements, and the twisting of others words so that you can further an argument.  Maybe you should just sit this one out, champ.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 05:08 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I honestly can't tell if you're purposely lying or if you somehow convince yourself that these stances are being taken.

Either way, it's weird.

Yep.  Pretty weird reply from the very person who "guaranteed" Dunlap's story was BS and had nothing to do with racism.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I disagree, but maybe that is why Dunlap wants him to do more than just that.  

I agree that Dunlap probably wants Mike Brown to do more than release a statement and make a monetary donation.

(08-26-2020, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Listen, we are starting to run in circles here.  You say we should make it unacceptable to be racists, but then you say that we can't do that by speaking out or saying racism is unacceptable.  So I have no idea what you are suggesting

It's not that hard a concept to grasp. Speaking out against racism is fine and helps. Constantly speaking out against racism over and over again does nothing more than the original speaking out did.

For example, we have all these protests going on all over the country (speaking of the PROTESTS not the rioting). Has anything meaningful been done about police brutality? Not really, no. If people kept on protesting, would anything change in that regard? No, not until those in power make meaningful changes. Awareness only goes so far. In order to enact change, people need to DO something beyond just saying "racism is bad".

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You made up a question that shifted the blame from the white owners and coaches to the black victims of racism for "not asking".

Wrong again. My point which clearly FLEW over your head (probably because you don't even bother reading my posts half the time) is that you can't blame racism for the INACTION of others. If I don't ask for a raise, is my female boss sexist for not giving me a raise? No. Now, back in the day, I know many black athletes were discouraged from pursing the QB position and so those were definitely instances of racism. But, if black players didn't even try and were rejected, you can't just blame the almighty racism for that. 

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 05:08 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I honestly can't tell if you're purposely lying or if you somehow convince yourself that these stances are being taken.

Either way, it's weird.

It's funny. When it comes to football and the Bengals, fred and I see eye-to-eye, like 95% of the time, but when it comes to politics and religion, hooooooooooo boy. 

[*bfine32*]

Dudes....Get a room.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-26-2020, 05:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dudes....Get a room.

SOMEone's jealous. 

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 05:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Wrong again. My point which clearly FLEW over your head (probably because you don't even bother reading my posts half the time) is that you can't blame racism for the INACTION of others. If I don't ask for a raise, is my female boss sexist for not giving me a raise? No. Now, back in the day, I know many black athletes were discouraged from pursing the QB position and so those were definitely instances of racism. But, if black players didn't even try and were rejected, you can't just blame the almighty racism for that. 

How can you claim I am wrong and then agree with me that you are claiming the blame should be shifted to the black players for "not asking" to be QB or coaches  for "not asking" to be head coaches?

Now answer the question you accused me of avoiding.  How many black players actually asked to be QB and got turned down? Let me hear your answer.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Fred is a strange bird.