HIGGINS and TATE Cheers

[Au165]

(09-28-2020, 03:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: EA gave Ross a 95 in Acceleration and a 93 in Agility.  It seems very odd to give him stats like that when his supposed Next Gen stats don't back it up.

Those don't actually mean what you think they do. Acceleration is just how long it takes to get to top speed and is still more of a linear speed stat. Agility starts to get into turning (He is 35th for WR's), but their new change of direction rating is where this comes in to play as it's sharp cutting to represent guys who are elite with the ball in hand. He is 89 in CoD which puts him around 56th for WR's. 

The other thing to know is, a lot of Madden ratings have marketing involved. Specifically, guys like Ross have a high upside as a MUT card so they have to sell the "speed" there which is why his SPD and ACC have stayed so high. Apparently, his speed on routes ran have really not been all that great from what I was told, could be related to his route running.

[McC]

(09-28-2020, 11:10 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Higgins is going to be good, but man, if he held on to the 40-yard pass in OT instead of letting Robey-Coleman hit his arm and make him drop it, Bengals were in good position to win. He's a rookie and he will learn. Excited about his potential.

Now only if Burrow had more time to throw without getting hit.

If Joe throws that ball two feet farther, Higgins is hauling it in over his shoulder and taking it to the house.  He had to slow down to wait for the pass.  This is not a criticism of Burrow, who is completing a lot of passes under extreme duress.  But that pass just needed a bit more distance and we're not even having this conversation.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 10:13 AM)Whatever Wrote: His big 19 yard catch came on a busted coverage where he was left completely undefended. Nobody with any objectivity is giving him a bunch of credit for that play.  

If you're going to have your camp spout off in the media about your usage, you'd better be able to win against man coverage in the end zone.  He had three opportunities and was beaten by his opposite number on every one. He got bailed out on a ticky tack PI on the first one.  

In the red zone, DB's play the slant a lot more aggressively.  You don't want to be throwing a bunch of slants to a WR that doesn't run good routes and doesn't have the physical ability to run a whip route to keep the CB guessing.  

If you're going to beat your chest and scream for the ball, you'd better play a lot better than Tate did Sunday.

No matter how much you hate on him, he will continue to prove you wrong. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 12:48 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If that would have been Ross drop, he would bet getting tarred and feathered by his haters.

You don't see the correlation between that being Ross' (X)th dropped pass and it being Higgins 1st(or 2nd maybe)?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 02:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What if we solve this Tate vs Ross problem and just make Erickson inactive?

Erickson's primary use right now is PR, of which he's only done 6.
Erickson is 5th in NFL with PR average due to a 22 yard return that put his average up to 11.0, but his career average is 7.7, so he's likely to come back down over the course of the season.
Surely there can be someone else on the roster (Wilson, Phillips, Bernard, Boyd) who could return an average of 2 punts per game?

I can vote for that. 

[Whatever]

(09-28-2020, 04:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No matter how much you hate on him, he will continue to prove you wrong. 

I wish he would've proved me wrong on Sunday when he was losing 50/50 balls (or are they still 80/20 balls) to the Eagles corners.  That way, we wouldn't still be waiting for Burrow's first win.

If anyone was happy with Tate's play Sunday, they've dropped the bar so low that he can pretty much just walk over it.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 05:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: I wish he would've proved me wrong on Sunday when he was losing 50/50 balls (or are they still 80/20 balls) to the Eagles corners.  That way, we wouldn't still be waiting for Burrow's first win.

If anyone was happy with Tate's play Sunday, they've dropped the bar so low that he can pretty much just walk over it.

I don't think that's true at all. 

Both plays had a high degree of difficulty--especially the 2nd one--but he should have kept running on the first one and he would have given himself a better chance. 

I'm not gonna crush a guy with the limited snaps that Tate has. If he doesn't continue to improve, ala John Ross, then he goes on the shit list too. There's just zero reason for him to be there right now. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 03:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ken Zampese?

Among others...

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 03:18 PM)Whatever Wrote: So you're totally fine with a guy whining his way into the lineup, then failing to produce?

Hyperbole

Some people have it in spades. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-28-2020, 10:13 AM)Whatever Wrote: His big 19 yard catch came on a busted coverage where he was left completely undefended. Nobody with any objectivity is giving him a bunch of credit for that play.

If you're going to have your camp spout off in the media about your usage, you'd better be able to win against man coverage in the end zone.  He had three opportunities and was beaten by his opposite number on every one. He got bailed out on a ticky tack PI on the first one.  

In the red zone, DB's play the slant a lot more aggressively.  You don't want to be throwing a bunch of slants to a WR that doesn't run good routes and doesn't have the physical ability to run a whip route to keep the CB guessing.  

If you're going to beat your chest and scream for the ball, you'd better play a lot better than Tate did Sunday.

Sure, let’s just completely ignore how good his footwork was on the play to even stay in bounds. Completely objective to do so.

[Whatever]

(09-28-2020, 06:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Sure, let’s just completely ignore how good his footwork was on the play to even stay in bounds. Completely objective to do so.

That's a routine toe tap for any NFL caliber WR. He was a foot from the chalk. Seriously, this is case in point.  People flip out for any routine play the guy the makes.  

[Whatever]

(09-28-2020, 05:57 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't think that's true at all. 

Both plays had a high degree of difficulty--especially the 2nd one--but he should have kept running on the first one and he would have given himself a better chance. 

I'm not gonna crush a guy with the limited snaps that Tate has. If he doesn't continue to improve, ala John Ross, then he goes on the shit list too. There's just zero reason for him to be there right now. 

Trust me on this, I care more about the Bengals being successful that I do about scoring "I told ya so" points on this board.  Everyone here has had their share of hits and misses.

They were tough catches because he couldn't generate any separation on them.  The defenders had great position on him.  Part of that is his bad route running and part of that is his lack of burst.  

You can't have your camp make "play me or trade me" statements in the media and go out there and be mediocre, especially when the HC is trying his damnedest to get you a TD by calling your number over and over again in the red zone.  I have not idea why Tate has been given a pass on this BS.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-28-2020, 07:03 PM)Whatever Wrote: That's a routine toe tap for any NFL caliber WR. He was a foot from the chalk. Seriously, this is case in point.  People flip out for any routine play the guy the makes.  

“Flipping out” is quite a stretch. No one is claiming he’s a Pro Bowler, but you refuse to give him ANY credit. And John Ross sure as hell has problems doing the basics and making routine plays...

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 07:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: Trust me on this, I care more about the Bengals being successful that I do about scoring "I told ya so" points on this board.  Everyone here has had their share of hits and misses.

They were tough catches because he couldn't generate any separation on them.  The defenders had great position on him.  Part of that is his bad route running and part of that is his lack of burst.  

You can't have your camp make "play me or trade me" statements in the media and go out there and be mediocre, especially when the HC is trying his damnedest to get you a TD by calling your number over and over again in the red zone.  I have not idea why Tate has been given a pass on this BS.  

There's that silly, worthless word again. 

You don't create separation on fades from the 13 yard line. It's up to the QB to put the ball where only the WR could get it. Burrow did a good job keeping it away from the corner. The first one, Tate should have kept running. Instead, he allowed the corner to force him to the sideline and he tried to stop and jump for it. The second was actually a bad route concept. He was lined up inside and they tried to throw it over the top. He had no chance to catch a pass like that running with his back to the QB. It would have been better if Burrow put it on a line and allowed Tate to use his size to box the defender out. 

"can't have your camp make "play me or trade me". You don't know how much of a hand Tate had in that, number one. Number two, That's not what was said. Though, i'm sure if you were in Tate's position and you produced in season and showed potential in preseason and practice...and you watched guys like John Ross and Alex Erickson active in front of you, you'd just take it and keep your mouth shut. 

[Essex Johnson]

(09-28-2020, 08:07 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Higgins yes. Tate, meh. He looks the part but did he have more than one catch? He doesn't ever bring down redzone catches. I'd honestly rather see Boyd, Higgns, Green, and Thomas out there
Thomas has played great when given the opportunity. He's caught just about everything.

Tate effort is great, Burrow needs to improve sideline and corner endzone  throws .

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-28-2020, 05:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: If anyone was happy with Tate's play Sunday, they've dropped the bar so low that he can pretty much just walk over it.

I think i have it figured out. Tell me if i'm wrong. 

You like Ross in there because he fits a unique role in the offense, even though he's rarely productive and when he does produce, it's more negative plays than positive. 

You don't like Tate in there because he doesn't really fit a unique role, as well as being redundant since other guys can do what he does, even though he has produced when given a chance, complete with a long list of highlight reel catches.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-28-2020, 05:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: I wish he would've proved me wrong on Sunday when he was losing 50/50 balls (or are they still 80/20 balls) to the Eagles corners.  That way, we wouldn't still be waiting for Burrow's first win.

If anyone was happy with Tate's play Sunday, they've dropped the bar so low that he can pretty much just walk over it.

If anyone is happy with John Ross's career, they've dropped the bar so low you'd need a backhoe to get over it.

[Whatever]

(09-28-2020, 09:21 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: “Flipping out” is quite a stretch. No one is claiming he’s a Pro Bowler, but you refuse to give him ANY credit. And John Ross sure as hell has problems doing the basics and making routine plays...

People on this board have compared Tate to guys like Jerry Rice, Anquan Bolden, and Larry Fitzgerald.  The guy has more hype threads on here than Tee Higgins, who just surpassed Tate's career TD mark in one game.  This very thread was created in part to applaud him for a performance in which he made two routine catches on four targets and lost every 50/50 ball he was involved in, which is supposed to be his strength.  His supporters can't hype him ad nauseam, then say "nobody said he was that good" when his failings are pointed out.  If they didn't think he was that good, they could stop heaping undeserved praise on him for a minute and wouldn't feel the need to come rushing to his defense when he doesn't live up to the lofty standards they set for him.  

Is Ross good?  No.  However, he can find the end zone and our red zone offense has been awful.  Do we need a red zone threat or another possession receiver right now?  

[Whatever]

(09-28-2020, 11:30 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: If anyone is happy with John Ross's career, they've dropped the bar so low you'd need a backhoe to get over it.

Is anyone on here happy with Ross's career thus far?  Just because Ross sucks doesn't mean Tate is any good.  At least next year, Ross won't be around for the Auden Tate fan club to make a whipping boy out of and craft bad straw man arguments about.  Then you guys can move onto the next Golden Binns award winner.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-28-2020, 11:39 PM)Whatever Wrote: People on this board have compared Tate to guys like Jerry Rice, Anquan Bolden, and Larry Fitzgerald.  The guy has more hype threads on here than Tee Higgins, who just surpassed Tate's career TD mark in one game.  This very thread was created in part to applaud him for a performance in which he made two routine catches on four targets and lost every 50/50 ball he was involved in, which is supposed to be his strength.  His supporters can't hype him ad nauseam, then say "nobody said he was that good" when his failings are pointed out.  If they didn't think he was that good, they could stop heaping undeserved praise on him for a minute and wouldn't feel the need to come rushing to his defense when he doesn't live up to the lofty standards they set for him.  

Is Ross good?  No.  However, he can find the end zone and our red zone offense has been awful.  Do we need a red zone threat or another possession receiver right now?  

Your “flipping out” remark was in response to a post I made, and I’ve never once compared him to anyone, let alone any of those guys. I’ve also never suggested he’s anything more than a solid weapon to go along with the much more versatile receivers like Boyd and AJ.