Don't hate me

[WhodeyRay]

I think getting the #1 and trading it away for a load of picks is the only way this gets turned around in the next 5 years. If you look at this team with open eyes and not as a fan it may be the only way for a turn around. When you figure we will need 5-6 starts next year and you have to count on injuries happening so 1 really good backup at each position group we have a ways to go. Going into a season hoping your starters don't get hurt is like playing the loto. Its fun to think about but never happening. Not all picks will hit but hitting 3-4 guys on say 7 top 100 picks compared 3 top 100 picks gives better olds of changing things.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-12-2020, 07:42 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Absolutely not.

This is a good year for O-line and CB.  I don't think WR is a top need with Tee and Boyd.  I think you can add a guy in rounds 3-5 and be in good shape.

I’d much rather re-sign WJ3 than use another high pick on a CB.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-12-2020, 08:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d much rather re-sign WJ3 than use another high pick on a CB.

Absolutely; we know what we have and he's played quite-well on the whole, this year.

[KillerGoose]

As others have said, Cinci will be in the 5-10 range. I think Cincinnati has a chance against the Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Dolphins and Texans. The Redskins game actually scares me due to the defensive talent they have. They could obviously lose any of those, but I predicted 4 wins before the season and I think it still looks like they are headed that way.

[Tony]

(10-12-2020, 11:13 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I must be new, why is everyone all of the sudden calling the first overall draft pick #1OA?

Number / 1 / over / all

[Pat5775]

(10-12-2020, 11:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why not? Easier than typing it out.

Ah I see... thanks for clearing that up

[J24]

Yeah I would rather have the #1 pick then make the playoffs this season.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-12-2020, 11:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why not? Easier than typing it out.

How is typing #1 OA easier than #1?

(10-12-2020, 04:43 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Probably not.  They will fall in love with flashy new toy instead of building a team from the trenches.  Balt and pitt get it, and win.  The Bengals....

Half of their 1st round picks in the last six years have been O-linemen. They've spent as many first round picks on O-line in the last six years as the rest of the division has combined (Cleveland have 2 out of their 9(!) first round picks, Steelers 0 out of 6, Ravens 1 out of 7).

The problem is they've picked badly.

(10-12-2020, 08:33 PM)WhodeyRay Wrote: I think getting the #1 and trading it away for a load of picks is the only way this gets turned around in the next 5 years. If you look at this team with open eyes and not as a fan it may be the only way for a turn around. When you figure we will need 5-6 starts next year and you have to count on injuries happening so 1 really good backup at each position group we have a ways to go. Going into a season hoping your starters don't get hurt is like playing the loto. Its fun to think about but never happening. Not all picks will hit but hitting 3-4 guys on say 7 top 100 picks compared 3 top 100 picks gives better olds of changing things.

The last window was opened by getting an extra picks - an extra first and second for Carson which allowed us to get Zeitler and Gio and then we got Marvin Jones with the pick from the Pats for Chad.

That window would have been extended if we'd managed to get that trade over the line for McCarron and history may have been very different.

This time we're trying to rebuild with one hand behind our back because we have zero extra picks. No veterans traded away like Carson and Chad for extra draft capital, not even any compensation picks for 2 years in a row. The front office have handled this rebuild negligently. Eifert, Glenn, Dalton, Billings and maybe even one or more of Green, Atkins, Dunlap or Mixon should have all been traded last year. The failure to get anything for Dalton - in part because they tanked his value but also because they refused to eat the necessary money - has set the rebuild back considerably. An extra late second round pick would have enabled us to add someone like Damian Lewis or my choice of Josh Jones on the line.

Instead the Bengals are going to spend Burrow's rookie contract trying to bed in rookies on the OLine whilst paying big bucks for a RB who has no blocking.

[WhodeyRay]

(10-13-2020, 10:03 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: How is typing #1 OA easier than #1?


Half of their 1st round picks in the last six years have been O-linemen. They've spent as many first round picks on O-line in the last six years as the rest of the division has combined (Cleveland have 2 out of their 9(!) first round picks, Steelers 0 out of 6, Ravens 1 out of 7).

The problem is they've picked badly.


The last window was opened by getting an extra picks - an extra first and second for Carson which allowed us to get Zeitler and Gio and then we got Marvin Jones with the pick from the Pats for Chad.

That window would have been extended if we'd managed to get that trade over the line for McCarron and history may have been very different.

This time we're trying to rebuild with one hand behind our back because we have zero extra picks. No veterans traded away like Carson and Chad for extra draft capital, not even any compensation picks for 2 years in a row. The front office have handled this rebuild negligently.  Eifert, Glenn, Dalton, Billings and maybe even one or more of Green, Atkins, Dunlap or Mixon should have all been traded last year. The failure to get anything for Dalton - in part because they tanked his value but also because they refused to eat the necessary money - has set the rebuild back considerably. An extra late second round pick would have enabled us to add someone like Damian Lewis or my choice of Josh Jones on the line.

Instead the Bengals are going to spend Burrow's rookie contract trying to bed in rookies on the OLine whilst paying big bucks for a RB who has no blocking.

You hit the nail on the head! Be rebuilt when we have to pay a qb 40 mill a year then have to let the others go again.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-13-2020, 10:03 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Half of their 1st round picks in the last six years have been O-linemen. They've spent as many first round picks on O-line in the last six years as the rest of the division has combined (Cleveland have 2 out of their 9(!) first round picks, Steelers 0 out of 6, Ravens 1 out of 7).

The problem is they've picked badly.

The Lions whiffed on WR after WR but they still took Calvin Johnson.   You don't stop because you made bad picks in the past.  And FA is one way to make up for bad drafting, which they did but it was largely on the defensive side. 

[Sled21]

(10-13-2020, 10:03 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: This time we're trying to rebuild with one hand behind our back because we have zero extra picks. No veterans traded away like Carson and Chad for extra draft capital, not even any compensation picks for 2 years in a row. The front office have handled this rebuild negligently.  Eifert, Glenn, Dalton, Billings and maybe even one or more of Green, Atkins, Dunlap or Mixon should have all been traded last year. The failure to get anything for Dalton - in part because they tanked his value but also because they refused to eat the necessary money - has set the rebuild back considerably. An extra late second round pick would have enabled us to add someone like Damian Lewis or my choice of Josh Jones on the line.

I'm not sure we need a boatload of extra picks right now. We are pretty set at most positions. We can concentrate on offensive linemen. Maybe grab another TE if a good one is available. When our defense gets healthy we are pretty set. Running backs are locked up. QB is a given. We could use a fast WR not named Ross. If Taylor can get MB to grab a couple of more top notch players in FA, another solid draft ought to do wonders for this team.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-13-2020, 11:09 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The Lions whiffed on WR after WR but they still took Calvin Johnson.   You don't stop because you made bad picks in the past.  And FA is one way to make up for bad drafting, which they did but it was largely on the defensive side. 

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't upgrade the O-line. My argument is that they haven't ignored the position but rather have picked poorly.

My solution is fire Tobin and then upgrade the O-line in both the draft and free agency. 

[Sled21]

We're not getting the #1, so this is all a moot point. But it would set up an interesting dilemma. Trade the picks away, or draft Sunshine and trade Burrow. That way we get one more year on a rookie QB salary. Personally, we keep Burrow. He has shown he can play well already, and Trevor is still an unknown. I think Burrow is better anyway.

[Stewy]

(10-12-2020, 11:31 AM)Takedown Wrote: Fair points. So Jets will probably be landing TL

If I were TL, I stay for my senior year instead.  The Jets are a wasteland like Washington, and even worse than coming to Cinci.

[Interceptor]

(10-12-2020, 11:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Jets are going to have the 1st pick. They’re by far the worst team in the league.

But hey, we are a close second! It might go either way in the end.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-13-2020, 11:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not sure we need a boatload of extra picks right now. We are pretty set at most positions. We can concentrate on offensive linemen. Maybe grab another TE if a good one is available. When our defense gets healthy we are pretty set. Running backs are locked up. QB is a given. We could use a fast WR not named Ross. If Taylor can get MB to grab a couple of more top notch players in FA, another solid draft ought to do wonders for this team.

We do need a boatload of extra picks because there is no depth and not all draft picks (or FA signings) work out.

Relying on hitting with every draft pick is not a viable strategy. Relying on no injuries is not a viable strategy.

We also need picks for succession planning.

QB - no point in spending any draft capital here
RB - Bernard is 30 next season and we have no depth behind him. This is a position we should be addressing in the later rounds, especially as he should be a cut candidate given his usage compared to his cost. Fortunately this is a position where you can find UDFAs to help.
TE - we should be looking at a mid-round TE, particularly with Uzomah coming off serious injury and being a $5m cap saving.
WR - we should be looking at double-dipping here with a mid and late round picks. Green, Ross, Erickson are out of contract (Thomas too, but he's more likely to be re-signed). More speed is a must. I'd also look at a FA on a one year prove it deal here. 
OL - two guards and a RT are needed. Probably a 1st/2nd rounder, a 3rd/4th-rounder and a second tier free agent at a minimum. We probably need a swing tackle as well as we have no depth at tackle, particularly if Hart is cut.

DE - moving on from Dunlap seems likely so a day one or two pick is probably required here. His salary saving will help pay for Lawson's re-signing. More depth may be needed depending on how Kareem and Bledsoe develop over the rest of the season.
DT - difficult to know how this will all shake out due to all the injuries. Tupou is due back which will at least provide some depth. Moving on from Geno is a real possibility but if they want to replace his interior pass rush in the draft that's likely to require a 1st rounder. That may mean we hold onto him for one more year.
LB - we invested 3 picks last year and a 3rd rounder the year before so we'd hope to see enough development this year not to have to go LB. Bynes is only on a one year deal though and what if the young LBers take a step backwards? We'll assume Bynes re-signs and the young LB show enough.
S - I'd expect them to try and lock up Bates this off-season, if not they need to think about drafting his replacement. Shawn Williams is out of contract and would save around $4m if they drafted a mid-round safety to develop (much like when they drafted Williams himself).
CB - Jackson, Alexander and Sims are all out of contract this year and Phillips next year. Waynes is the only one under contract for 2022 and he's yet to be seen in stripes. It's hard to imagine them not taking at least one corner and maybe two. If they want a starting outside corner that would be a round 1 or 2 selection so let's assume they extend WJIII. They might be able to replace Alexander in the 3rd and Sims in the 4th or 5th.

Teams - all the specialists are out of contract but lets assume they all resign. They lost Fej last year and Brandon Wilson is out of contract this year so they may want to spend a late pick on a special teams maven.

So to sum up:

Early rounds: O-line, DE/DT
Mid-rounds: O-line, TE, WR, S, CB
Late rounds: RB, WR, ST


So they'd be 3 picks short. Maybe they can move back in the first to get an extra mid-round pick but they'd much rather have those extra picks so they could move around themselves more easily.


Green, Ross, Alexander departing and Dunlap being cut saves about $38m. Raises for Mixon ($6m), Reader ($3.5m), Waynes ($6m), Boyd ($2m) is going to leave about $20m for re-signing Lawson, Bates and WJIII and all the other free agents and getting in a solid O-lineman in FA. It becomes a game of Whack-a-Mole as every hole you fill another one pops up when you cut someone to pay for that. The beauty of draft picks are they are cost-controlled and cheap. Filling holes in free agency is a lot more expensive. The lack of additional draft picks reduces the amount they can spend in free agency.