REALISTIC Zac Taylor Expectations

[sonofstat]

(10-13-2020, 12:59 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Those of you that are in the "fire Zac" camp, I'm wondering, exactly what your expectations have been in a season and 5 games?

In terms of the offensive line, the man inherited a team that had John Jerry and Andre Smith playing LT last year. Cordy Glenn (who he did not trade for) turned out to be a turd who just really didn't want to play football. Clint Boling decided for health reasons to retire. Jonah Williams got injured. First round pick Billy Price (who he did not draft) is a complete bust. They sign XSF who has played all of one game.

He inherited a team with one starting caliber WR in Tyler Boyd. First round pick John Ross is a complete bust. We all know the story with AJ.

He inherited a team with the worst LB corps in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.

They go out and spend the most they have ever spent in free agency. Trae Waynes has yet to play a snap. Mackensie Alexander is out. XSF is out. Now Reader is out for the season as Geno finally is able to play. And speaking of the defensive line, which should have been an absolute strength on this team, aside from Reader now being out and Geno being injured, Tupou opted out of the season, Glasgow failed his physical and was released, and Mike Daniels has been placed on IR.

Let's not forget, this season he has a rookie QB, and yes Joe Burrow is going to be great, but the fact of the matter is it takes some time to learn how to play QB in the NFL, to adjust to the speed of the game, and to develop that internal clock in your head where you know you have to get rid of the football. Yes, the O-line is not good, but some of the hits and sacks Joe has taken are directly attributed to himself. He's a rookie, and that was never more apparent than it was Sunday.

Look I know the mantra in the NFL is next man up. Every team suffers injuries, and the good teams figure out how to overcome them. The fact of the matter is this team has zero depth behind their starters. What Zac inherited last year was a pile of shit. Those of you who expected this team to make the playoffs this year were kidding yourselves, and that's if they stayed relatively healthy. Given that they haven't, temper your expectations.

I remember much of the media at the time he was hired saying considering everything Bengals was a pretty good spot for such an inexperienced HC.

-Low expectations
-inherited a very stable locker room and culture from Marv
- got to pick pretty much his entire staff (simmons excluded) 
- as an offensive coach he had Andy Dalton / Mixon / Green (injured admittedly).

Even when they had such a putrid year in 2019 he managed to get a #1 pick when there was a consensus franchise QB option on the board and the FO backed him up even more by investing in FA to a level never done before.

We are very quick to throw stones at the front office but they have backed Taylor completely and currently we have 3 wins in the Taylor era to show for it and when we lose it seems to be in continually the same ways  (e.g. poor pass protection, gashed in run Defense).

Is it really unrealistic to hope to see more than that?

[Gdale_Bengal]

Zac needs to fire him Turner. I think he needs to stop calling plays too. If Callahan can’t be effective at calling plays then he doesn’t need to be an offensive coordinator.

I agree that if Zac doesn’t improve his win total by the end of the year and get more wins than last season they need to seriously consider firing him. They do have some winnable games coming up, and he needs to win every one of them

[WhodeyRay]

The only realistic expectations we can expect of Zack if to distinguish between a fart and shart on the sideline and not piss on the front of his pants while peeing at half time.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-13-2020, 12:59 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Those of you that are in the "fire Zac" camp, I'm wondering, exactly what your expectations have been in a season and 5 games?

In terms of the offensive line, the man inherited a team that had John Jerry and Andre Smith playing LT last year. Cordy Glenn (who he did not trade for) turned out to be a turd who just really didn't want to play football. Clint Boling decided for health reasons to retire. Jonah Williams got injured. First round pick Billy Price (who he did not draft) is a complete bust. They sign XSF who has played all of one game.

He inherited a team with one starting caliber WR in Tyler Boyd. First round pick John Ross is a complete bust. We all know the story with AJ.

He inherited a team with the worst LB corps in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.

They go out and spend the most they have ever spent in free agency. Trae Waynes has yet to play a snap. Mackensie Alexander is out. XSF is out. Now Reader is out for the season as Geno finally is able to play. And speaking of the defensive line, which should have been an absolute strength on this team, aside from Reader now being out and Geno being injured, Tupou opted out of the season, Glasgow failed his physical and was released, and Mike Daniels has been placed on IR.

Let's not forget, this season he has a rookie QB, and yes Joe Burrow is going to be great, but the fact of the matter is it takes some time to learn how to play QB in the NFL, to adjust to the speed of the game, and to develop that internal clock in your head where you know you have to get rid of the football. Yes, the O-line is not good, but some of the hits and sacks Joe has taken are directly attributed to himself. He's a rookie, and that was never more apparent than it was Sunday.

Look I know the mantra in the NFL is next man up. Every team suffers injuries, and the good teams figure out how to overcome them. The fact of the matter is this team has zero depth behind their starters. What Zac inherited last year was a pile of shit. Those of you who expected this team to make the playoffs this year were kidding yourselves, and that's if they stayed relatively healthy. Given that they haven't, temper your expectations.

This pretty much sums up what Baltimore did to the Bengals offense:  Put their best CB on Boyd and the Bengals have no response.  Tee is solid, but a rookie that doesn't generate tremendous separation.  

We give up on rushing the ball way too early.  

[Bengalholic]

(10-13-2020, 01:16 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Considering the 4 expansion teams from the last 25 years (Panthers, Jaguars, Browns, and Texans) averaged 7.5 wins in their 2nd year in existance, I think that's a pretty realitstic expectation.

If he wins less than 7 games this season then it's a failure.  If he wins less than 5 games then he should, no question, be fired.

Here's a list of the previous 2-14 teams and what they did the following season (best to worst). 7 wins doesn't happen often the next year, but 6 wins seems like a more realistic barometer because it's happened over half the time. Hell, even 6 wins seems tough right now, given where this team is, but if they could somehow finish 6-9-1, I would consider that a pretty decent progression in year 2. 

11-5 (0-1)
11-5 (0-1)
9-7
9-7
5-4 (0-1)
8-8
7-8-1
7-9
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
5-11
5-11
4-12
4-12
4-12
4-12
4-12
3-13
3-13
3-13
3-13
2-14
2-14
2-14
1-15

[*ochocincos*]

(10-13-2020, 02:32 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Here's a list of the previous 2-14 teams and what they did the following season (best to worst). 7 wins doesn't happen often the next year, but 6 wins seems like a more realistic barometer because it's happened over half the time. Hell, even 6 wins seems tough right now, given where this team is, but if they could somehow finish 6-9-1, I would consider that a pretty decent progression in year 2. 

11-5 (0-1)
11-5 (0-1)
9-7
9-7
5-4 (0-1)
8-8
7-8-1
7-9
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
6-10
5-11
5-11
4-12
4-12
4-12
4-12
4-12
3-13
3-13
3-13
3-13
2-14
2-14
2-14
1-15

You think they can get 5 wins out of next 11 games when they have Reader, Daniels, Waynes, and XSF all on IR?
I think 2, maybe 3. NYG, NYJ, and WAS are the only ones I see as possible.

[uticabengalfan]

We finish this year with 3,4 wins max and hope by some miracle hes shown the door

[BengalChris]

(10-13-2020, 02:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You think they can get 5 wins out of next 11 games when they have Reader, Daniels, Waynes, and XSF all on IR?
I think 2, maybe 3. NYG, NYJ, and WAS are the only ones I see as possible.

You know the fans for the NYG, NYJ and WAS are also looking at the schedule and the see Bengals as one of the best chances for their team to add to their win total for the year.

 

[Sled21]

(10-13-2020, 02:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You think they can get 5 wins out of next 11 games when they have Reader, Daniels, Waynes, and XSF all on IR?
I think 2, maybe 3. NYG, NYJ, and WAS are the only ones I see as possible.

Texans are 1-4. Dolphins are 2-3, Cowboys are 2-3, Redskins are 1-4, Giants are 0-5, Colts are 3-2. None of these teams are unbeatable for us, we just need the defense to play like it has been and for the Offense to get their crap together. Losing Reader hurts a lot, but we got Geno back and Xavier can spell him and take up space. We haven't had Waynes, so no difference there. XFS should be coming back in a few weeks. We could very easily get to 6 wins. 

[uticabengalfan]

(10-13-2020, 02:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Texans are 1-4. Dolphins are 2-3, Cowboys are 2-3, Redskins are 1-4, Giants are 0-5, Colts are 3-2. None of these teams are unbeatable for us, we just need the defense to play like it has been and for the Offense to get their crap together. Losing Reader hurts a lot, but we got Geno back and Xavier can spell him and take up space. We haven't had Waynes, so no difference there. XFS should be coming back in a few weeks. We could very easily get to 6 wins. 

Are you drunk??

[Sled21]

(10-13-2020, 03:02 PM)uticabengalfan Wrote: Are you drunk??

Nope, keeping the faith..... I'd even go so far as to say we might split with the Browns. Higgins is getting more and more confident, Burrow had a setback but prior to the Ravens had 3 straight 300 yd games passing. Anything is possible.

[Bengalholic]

(10-13-2020, 02:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You think they can get 5 wins out of next 11 games when they have Reader, Daniels, Waynes, and XSF all on IR?
I think 2, maybe 3. NYG, NYJ, and WAS are the only ones I see as possible.

I didn't say they could/would win 5 more games...I said 'if somehow'.

[J24]

If this team doesn't at least get 5 more wins then Taylor deserves to be fired. This team isn't as bad as the Ravens game indicated. So no excuses get it done.

Here is the thing that makes Taylor extra vulnerable. He is basically the offensive coordinator of the team and yet the offense hasn't improved in any category. Run game is still atrocious, lack of big plays kills us, not converting Turnovers into points kills us, and most importantly were bottom three in Redzone offense once again.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-13-2020, 02:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Texans are 1-4. Dolphins are 2-3, Cowboys are 2-3, Redskins are 1-4, Giants are 0-5, Colts are 3-2. None of these teams are unbeatable for us, we just need the defense to play like it has been and for the Offense to get their crap together. Losing Reader hurts a lot, but we got Geno back and Xavier can spell him and take up space. We haven't had Waynes, so no difference there. XFS should be coming back in a few weeks. We could very easily get to 6 wins. 

Beating the Colts would be an unexpected surprise IMO. While their offense isn't great, their defense is top-notch.
I think the Texans are better than the Bengals. 
They beat the Jags by more than the Bengals did and only lost to PIT by 7.

You say the Bengals just need to get their offense right, but I don't count on that happening. I've stopped having hope they will improve and just assume they'll continue to be bad until I actually see improvement.

[Sled21]

(10-13-2020, 03:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Beating the Colts would be an unexpected surprise IMO. While their offense isn't great, their defense is top-notch.
I think the Texans are better than the Bengals. 
They beat the Jags by more than the Bengals did and only lost to PIT by 7.

You say the Bengals just need to get their offense right, but I don't count on that happening. I've stopped having hope they will improve and just assume they'll continue to be bad until I actually see improvement.

Every week in the NFL is full of upsets. Are these teams better than the Bengals at this point of the season, probably. That doesn't mean if the Bengals come out and protect Burrow they could upset any and/or all of them.

[fredtoast]

Six wins just beating other horrible teams is NOT improvement.

Taylor got 2 first round picks (plus a 2nd round pick who is looking really good) and a bunch of expensive free agents for this season.  If he does not show that we can be competitive or beat some decent teams he has accomplished NOTHING.

Like I said, I am not in favor of firing him right now, but unless we show significant improvement he should be gone after this year.  We don't have to make the playoffs, but we have to look good against decent teams.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-13-2020, 03:13 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Every week in the NFL is full of upsets. Are these teams better than the Bengals at this point of the season, probably. That doesn't mean if the Bengals come out and protect Burrow they could upset any and/or all of them.

I wouldn't hold my breath. That would require actual good guard play, of which the Bengals don't have.

[Sled21]

Well heck, if I were some of you, I wouldn't even watch anymore since they have no chance.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-13-2020, 02:06 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I have no problem with the many criticisms that have been levied thus far, as many of them are legitimate and have cause behind them.

But this is the ultimate, "machinations in your head/conspiracy/thinking you know more than you actually do," criticism that has existed since forever; the play-calling isn't predictable nor is it, "something your varsity high school team can anticipate," because you, the opponent and everyone NOT on/affiliated with the team, knows that plays that are called: the terminology, the sets, the drops, the routes, route depths, etc., etc., etc., you don't know them, so there is no possible way to call things predictable or not.

I have never understood this criticism since I first saw it be mentioned years ago and still don't; are you psychic or have stolen a playbook file from the team in some way?

True.

It would be fun to get in the game day thread with all these people that know the play and listen to them call it out before it happens. 

[740Bengal]

(10-13-2020, 01:09 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: He was already the HC and Turner was already the Oline coach when they signed Jerry, Smith and Miller. They also signed off on the Hart extension. Same for resigning Preston Brown and only drafting one LB.

The only slight pass I can give him is on the Green and Williams injuries, but really the Bengals aren’t the only team in the league that deals with injuries and has to find a way to overcome. If your HC can’t figure out how to win even with injuries, not a very good coach and definitely shouldn’t be in the NFL.

Won’t give him a pass on Green or Ross this year. The team could have moved on from both of them this past offseason.

Exactly! There is nothing Taylor is doing schematically to help a poor o line.  No early down screens, no chipping, etc etc.