Housh gets it

[Essex Johnson]

(03-02-2021, 12:07 AM)Whatever Wrote: The SB champs had 3 former All Pro WR's and a former All Pro TE.  The AFC champions had an All Pro WR and All Pro TE.  The AFC runner ups had 2 All Pro WR's.  The NFC runner ups had an All Pro WR.  Looking at the NFC Divisional round losers, one had a former All Pro WR and the other had 2 WR's finish in the Top 25 in receiving yards.  In the AFC, one of the divisional round losers had 2 multi time Pro Bowl WR's, a multi time Pro Bowl TE, and a multi time Pro Bowl RB.  The other had a Pro Bowl TE.  Out of 14 playoff teams this year, 12 had at least one Pro Bowl WR, TE, or RB and only one of those won a playoff game.  If you want to shoot for another classic Bengals one and done, ignore the skill positions.  If you want to actually try to shoot for a championship, we need at least one elite weapon, more likely two.

I think you proved my point we have diverse groups of WRs today not a select few.. the game has continued to evolve 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-20-2021, 12:08 PM)samhain Wrote: One thing that's changed about the NFL in the last 5 years or so is the ability to find productive receivers in rounds 2-4.  It's just not as hard to get guys that can play at the NFL level at that position anymore.  Look around college football.  Even mid-majors and lesser D-1 teams have legit talents that will likely be drafted relatively early and have a shot to play in the league.  It didn't used to work that way.  The 3-year rule for WRs adjusting to the league is largely a thing of the past, as kids get drafted and are plugged in right away all the time now.  

League rules regarding what DBs can do also make the transition much easier.  They just don't face the same next-level physicality after the initial bump at the line, and receivers rarely get penalized for interference.  DBs lose almost every time when things get physical in terms of flags.  There's also no head-hunting over the middle like there once was, so kids don't have to worry about getting decapitated on tough catches nearly as much.  Not to say they never take a shot, but it's not open season like it once was, and a kid with decent hands has a much better chance of making a living over the middle if he's not a burner or 6-3 or 5 freak that can fly.  

Also, there's capable talent in free agency this year that can help and won't break the bank.  More will be cut.  Desean Jackson is old, but as a number 3 compliment for 5 mil year, it's worth considering.  Emmanuel Sanders will likely be available, and that guy is as reliable as they come and also not likely to command a lot of money.  Tyrell Williams and John Brown would both be great outside threats to compliment Boyd and Higgins, and both are likely very affordable.  Edelman is another who could help.  Burrow's strength is making gnat-hair tight intermediate throws, and a guy like Edelman that made a career of coming up with tough catches would be helpful if healthy.  

You know what's not easy to find in FA or the draft?  Good OL that fit the modern offense  The league is packed to the gills with awful lines because the college game has so few programs that even pretend to want to run the ball anymore.  You used to be able to get some fat guy in the 3rd and make him a RT for the next ten years, no problem.  Not anymore.  NFL edge rushers destroy those guys and the OTs athletic enough to deal with the werewolves at DE these days often don't have the strength to be the road graders in the run game that we used to see on the right side.  

In short, I agree with TJ.  If you have a shot at a guy that's athletic, relentless, and huge, like Sewell, you take him at 5 over a WR all day long.  You'll have an advantage over half of the league just having a guy like that on your roster if he pans out.  Receivers are plentiful and affordable.  Tackles and to a large extent guards are not.

Pretty much this....even the mighty Chiefs got curb stomped with an oline similar to ours due to injury. They were still better than ours. You can't block, you don't win. That's a whole different SB if KC trots out its starting line.

This is a team almost devoid of talent with Hopkins out, and hopefully not Williams at the start of the season. You get a chance at Sewell, take it. Get a tier 1 G, and at least a 2 in FA. Use later rounds for a burner.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2021, 12:13 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I think you proved my point we have diverse groups of WRs today not a select few.. the game has continued to evolve 

The Bengals only have the following "good" offensive weapons under contract:
- Tyler Boyd
- Tee Higgins
- Joe Mixon

None of them are considered elite (yet). You may be able to make the argument for Mixon, but he needs a better OL.
The Bengals will probably need an elite WR or TE (along with OL) to get to that upper-tier offense.

[JerseyDD09]

I think the offense takes a blast off if they can get both Thuney at G and Andrews at C from New England. Sure, you are overpaying for both, BUUUT, your line is now top notch and sound, never worrying about missed assignments, spotty play, inconsistency, etc...
The line is about familiarity, and I'm sure whichever team gets one, can get the other to continue playing together. If the Bengals are serious about transforming the OL into one of the best for Burrow, lay down the big money for your C and G in FA, and draft Sewell if available or get the next best thing in Round 2!

[Essex Johnson]

(03-02-2021, 06:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals only have the following "good" offensive weapons under contract:
- Tyler Boyd
- Tee Higgins
- Joe Mixon

None of them are considered elite (yet). You may be able to make the argument for Mixon, but he needs a better OL.
The Bengals will probably need an elite WR or TE (along with OL) to get to that upper-tier offense.

Cleveland Tenn , Rams, Washington, Steelers, Colts, Baltimore do not have a established elite WR  and they made playoffs

[Whatever]

(03-02-2021, 11:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Cleveland Tenn , Rams, Washington, Steelers, Colts, Baltimore do not have a established elite WR  and they made playoffs

For the Browns, Jarvis Landry is a 5x Pro Bowler and has led the league in receptions.  Chubb is a multi time Pro Bowler at RB.  Hooper is a multi time Pro Bowler at TE.  Not to mention OBJ is a former All Pro and multi time Pro Bowler.

The Titans have Derrick Henry, an All Pro RB.  AJ Brown made the Pro Bowl at WR this year.  

WFT made the playoffs with a 7-9 record.  If your plan is to make the playoffs at 7-9 in the AFCN, I've got a nice bridge I'd like to sell you.  

For the Steelers, JuJu is a former Pro Bowler.  

For the Colts, TY Hilton is a 4x Pro Bowler and has led the league in receiving yards before.

For the Ravens, Mark Andrews is a Pro Bowl TE.

The Rams and WFT are literally the only playoff teams without a Pro Bowl non-QB skill position player.  And WFT made the playoffs with a losing record.  

Both SB teams had at least 2 All Pro skill players.

Three out of the final four teams in the playoffs had at least two All Pro skill players.  All four had at least one All Pro WR.

Six of the final eight playoff teams had at least one All Pro skill player.  Seven of eight had at least one Pro Bowl skill player.

Eight of fourteen playoff teams, more than half, had at least one All Pro skill player.  Twelve of fourteen playoff teams had at least one Pro Bowl skill player.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-03-2021, 12:50 AM)Whatever Wrote: For the Browns, Jarvis Landry is a 5x Pro Bowler and has led the league in receptions.  Chubb is a multi time Pro Bowler at RB.  Hooper is a multi time Pro Bowler at TE.  Not to mention OBJ is a former All Pro and multi time Pro Bowler.

The Titans have Derrick Henry, an All Pro RB.  AJ Brown made the Pro Bowl at WR this year.  

WFT made the playoffs with a 7-9 record.  If your plan is to make the playoffs at 7-9 in the AFCN, I've got a nice bridge I'd like to sell you.  

For the Steelers, JuJu is a former Pro Bowler.  

For the Colts, TY Hilton is a 4x Pro Bowler and has led the league in receiving yards before.

For the Ravens, Mark Andrews is a Pro Bowl TE.

The Rams and WFT are literally the only playoff teams without a Pro Bowl non-QB skill position player.  And WFT made the playoffs with a losing record.  

Both SB teams had at least 2 All Pro skill players.

Three out of the final four teams in the playoffs had at least two All Pro skill players.  All four had at least one All Pro WR.

Six of the final eight playoff teams had at least one All Pro skill player.  Seven of eight had at least one Pro Bowl skill player.

Eight of fourteen playoff teams, more than half, had at least one All Pro skill player.  Twelve of fourteen playoff teams had at least one Pro Bowl skill player.

You have a very loose definition for elite  if you think Landry played elite last year than Boyd and Higgins did, and Hooper stats last year were meh...I pointed out that almost half the teams in the playoffs had no real elite WRs or TEs, some had good or a player that had a heck of a year but none are non are considered elite by most standards but I'm good using your standard  since Higgins and Boyd now would be in the conversation of elite.. I'm feeling even better now about our WRs.. thanks and moving on..

[Whatever]

(03-03-2021, 09:08 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You have a very loose definition for elite  if you think Landry played elite last year than Boyd and Higgins did, and Hooper stats last year were meh...I pointed out that almost half the teams in the playoffs had no real elite WRs or TEs, some had good or a player that had a heck of a year but none are non are considered elite by most standards but I'm good using your standard  since Higgins and Boyd now would be in the conversation of elite.. I'm feeling even better now about our WRs.. thanks and moving on..

So what is your standard for "an established elite WR?". Because multi time Pro Bowlers apparently don't count and guys who made the Pro Bowl this year don't count, either.  "Not elite because it doesn't suit my argument," isn't an objective criteria.

Not to mention that over half of the teams you cited were one and done and none of them advanced past the 2nd round. In fact, 2 of the 3 teams on your list that advanced were matched up against another team from your list. The only one that actually beat a team with an elite WR by your definition in the playoffs was the Rams. So is another dynasty of one and done's the goal or are we trying to win a championship?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2021, 11:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Cleveland Tenn , Rams, Washington, Steelers, Colts, Baltimore do not have a established elite WR  and they made playoffs

I didn't say "make the playoffs," I said have an upper-tier offense.
But I also think you misinterpreted what I said. I said they probably need an elite WR or TE to get to that upper-tier offense. I said that because they don't have an elite offensive weapon right now. They have 3 good ones, but none are elite. They also don't have a defense to compensate for their bad offense.

But let's look at every team you listed...
CLE, BAL, and TEN all have elite running games. They don't depend on the passing game.
Rams made the playoffs because they had the #1 defense in both Yards Allowed and Points Allowed.
PIT had the #3 defense in both YA and PA.
IND had both a Top 10 offense and defense. For much of the season, they had a Top 5 defense. They also had the #3 RB in the league. So they didn't need an elite pass catcher because of their defense and running game.

Washington doesn't count. They made the playoffs because of their crappy division.

If you are trying to say you can get to the playoffs without an elite pass catcher, yes you can. But you need a dominant running game and/or defense if you don't have an elite passing attack. Given the Bengals don't have a good running game or defense, an elite pass catcher probably makes the most sense.

[Jason_NC]

(02-24-2021, 04:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The draft is a sure thing in that you pick the guy and he is on your team.

Not, he visits and uses your team for leverage to make more money from a team he actually wants to play for.

Not even that is a sure thing.
John Elway, Rickey Hunley, Eli Manning.  Rare exceptions to be sure, but it has happened.