07-08-2021, 10:02 AM
(07-07-2021, 01:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Whatever you say, boss
(07-07-2021, 03:32 PM)samhain Wrote: That's a really bad take on the Pats success in their dynasty years. They were indeed dominant in a bad division, but they were also 134-44 vs non divisional opponents from 01-2019. They weren't just feasting vs inferior teams, either. They went 24-14 vs eventual division winners. They almost always had to play the AFC's first place teams from the previous year.
There's no way to look at their wins and who they were against and say that they were anything but dominant over most of that stretch. They beat the Steelers, probably the next most consistent franchise in the conference something like 12 out of 16 times over that stretch (I particularly enjoyed that). They were 9-4 vs the Ravens over the same period of time. Denver probably fared best vs them winning 10 of 19.
(07-07-2021, 04:44 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I wasn't actually being serious. However....
Their division was garbage and it absolutely helped them. That has to be the worst division in football over the last 20 years. Hell, none of them even had a long term franchise QB over that time frame. Tom Brady saw an actual franchise QB maybe twice a season. So, while I applaud the Pats for being a dynasty, I cannot help but think there are other things that were likely to happen if the Pats played in the AFCN, for example, over the last 20 years. Or the NFCE or NFCN. Just from a health standpoint, I don't see how Brady plays virtually untouched for 20 some years. Nearly half his schedule was against the 3 worst teams in the NFL... for 20 years.
It would make a fun experiment to take a look at the playoff brackets the Patriots have been in and see their path and how many franchise QBs he actually faced in the playoffs and what his record was against them and then look at how many teams he played who had an OK or journeyman QB at the helm and what he did against those guys. Like, was there a consistent path that he had where he only needed to beat 1 good QB to make the Superbowl? Or, did he maybe face several in the brackets and beat them? Or none? And what were the outcomes?
(07-07-2021, 07:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually Brady played pretty much as many tough games in the regular season as any other QB because EVERY year they had to play EVERY AFC division Champion plus one NFC Division champion.
In the 19 year New England dynasty ('01-'19) the Pats played 99 regular season games against playoff teams while the second best team in the AFC (Steelers) played just 8 more (107) and the best team in the NFC (Packers) played 6 more (105).
But what is really shocking is how dominate the Pats were against these playoff teams during the regular season. The Pats outscored playoff teams by 568 points during the regular season while winning .636% of those games. The second best team against playoff opponents (Stealers) had a negative point differential (-32) and a losing record (.453%). The Pats were 17 games OVER .500 against playoff teams while the second best team was 10 games UNDER .500.
In the post season the Pats had TWICE as many wins (30) as the second best team over the period (Stealers 15). No other team was within 100 points of the Pats postseason winning % (.732), and the Pats postseason point differential (+261) is almost 4 times greater than the second best team (Seattle +69).
(07-07-2021, 07:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I have to give the other Toast props here. Fred can pull numbers like nobody's business. These stats just murdered the argument it was up against.
(07-07-2021, 08:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: We really didn’t need Fred’s stats to know that what pdub is saying is wrong. Really wrong
And he should feel bad
(07-07-2021, 08:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ida know...we've had the expansion Browns to kick around (in theory) for two decades. Also, the Patriots have 30 wins in the playoffs since 2000 so they clearly know how to beat teams that aren't the Jets/Dolphins/Bills.
EDIT - I see this has been addressed by you and other posters. At any rate, hopefully the Browns go back to being the same old Browns and the Steelers and Ravens finally take that "step back" we've been predicting they'd take since 2010 so we can make the playoffs by default every year and win 30 playoff games and 6 SBs.
Dear everyone....
1st, please note where I said I wasn't being serious (bolded in my reply above).
After that, I pondered aloud about the rest and said it would be interesting to research. To that point...
Great data, Fred. I appreciate you furthering discussion and providing all of that. It got me looking up stuff as well. Even jokingly, I couldn't have been more off. When you remove the Pats, the AFCE teams absolutely were horrific... But it clearly didn't matter as far as the Patriots are concerned when you review all of the available data.
If anyone wants to look into it further, this site provided a ton of data and breakdowns in easy to follow sections. Fascinating and well put together info.... https://patriotsdynasty.info/blog/2019/01-02/myth-easy-afc-east-definitive-guide?amp
BTW, I have no hatred towards Tom Brady. I've been building a sports card & comics collectibles business the last 2 years as a second business and TB12 has made us quite the penny with some killer cards. In PSA graded Brady's alone we've moved nearly $22,000 since the start of the 2020 season. He's the Michael Jordan of football. If the Bengals can't win it all, I am all about TB12 doing well as we have some more pieces in inventory and coming back from PSA early season that we'll kill it with.
Fun Fact and 100% true based on sales data we collect and research... NO ONE collects or spends big money on anything Steelers. NO ONE. Not even Steelers fans. They are the cheapest, most casual fan base when it comes to anything sentimental or collectible. If you asked me what team's stuff was worth the least over the last 40 years.... STEELERS would be up there for consideration. The card market HATES them when it comes to value and liquidity. Not only that, but Steelers fans are legitimately CLUELESS on what to invest in. It's really weird when we meet them at card shows and they talk to us about what their buys, sells, flips, or holds are. They value the goofiest things in players and I'm always shaking my head when they walk away.
Even the QB gets no hobby push, which is super weird. Roethlisberger is genuinely disliked and not collected or invested in across the market, save for a handful of sales.
