So the big elephant in the room....

[Hoofhearted]

(09-13-2017, 09:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm not really big on O'Brien, Garrett or Zimmer personally. As for the other guys, it's not hard to figure out. Regular season mediocrity becomes more acceptable when you achieved the ultimate goal or you've come close. John Harbaugh has a ring (fyi, .590 comes out to almost 1.5 more wins per season, so it's a bigger difference than you think). Riviera and Caldwell have taken teams to the biggest stage there is.

Give these coaches less length than Marv and they also ran into super bowls. Marv has had all the leash in the world and has only managed to run into a wall. Or a screen door. Or a stop sign.

And no, who built the team is not moot. Marv didn't build the first team, you'll admit that, correct? Now if Tobin got here at the end of the 90's and immediately started collecting talent without Marv, why are you stretching to give him credit for this last group of talent?  Would it not make more sense that the builder of the 1st core was most responsible for also building the 2nd? Or do we just want to give Marv credit for something that can't be proven because he can't stand on what can?

Me either; just trying to provide some discussion around the matter. I am not even a big ML fan, but thought it would be good to go over this. I like O'brien more than the others. I was just trying to provide some context around other coaches. it's quite clear Marv doesn't belong amongst the upper echelon of Head Coaches. He probably sits right below average (18-22, something like that). And yeah, get that = 1.5 more wins a year, but saying that Marv can coach in the NFL and win some games. Is he the best? F*** no!! lol Like I have stated before, his message has to be stale in the locker room. And worst yet, he's not very adaptive. This is probably what keeps him from being a much better coach. 

Yeah, he didn't "build" that first team. But I certainly seeing him having a hand in the getting of UDFA like Tez & Vinnie Rey. Tobin was hired 99, but has been in his current role since 02. In 02, we went 2-14. In 2003, of course, Marv was hired and the drafts and team started to turn it around. Is it a coincidence that since those two worked together that they started drafting better? Maybe they compliment each other really well? Tobin gives Marv his types of players and Marv molds them? I think it's almost certainly a coordinated effort.