The fact that our o line was so bad and theres already questions

[lone bengal]

(02-20-2017, 02:22 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's pathetic man.....you hit the nail on the head with the accountability...he's a lifer, and he knows it.  "Oh well, I made a mistake, sorry.  I'll try harder next time....."....shit we don't even get that.  Dumbass is so full of himself, he called criticism of Bodine a "witch hunt", instead of taking some of the blame on his own and getting after Bodine a bit.  Shameful.

Iv'e started to doubt this coaching staff more than ever.  The last 3 drafts before last years have been bad. I wont judge last years draft yet due to the Jackson and Billings injuries.  But it got me thinking is it that Duke Tobin has been drafting players who can't play lately ? or is it that we aren't coaching them up ? I find it hard to believe that we can't get any production from guys like Bodine in his 4th year, Fisher going into his 3rd year, Ogbueh 3rd year , Hunt 4 years, Dawson. Dennard 4th year  ect. Then guys like Hill start to regress.  Then we get the coaches telling us how good these players are even tho their not producing on the field, and if we criticize guys like Bodine its a which Hunt.  Marvin said Dennard was one of the most polished corners he had seen as a rookie and in his 4th year he couldn't beat out Josh Shaw as the 3rd corner.? Even simple coaching things.  Why is it that Bodine in year 4 still has low shot guns snaps, it drives me crazy. I thought the team finally gave up on Bodine and admitted defeat when they benched him in the Ravens game and scored with T.J. Johnson at center, but then they put Bodine in after the scoring drive. After the game when asked about Bodine being benched Marvin game some lame answer saying something about letting him settle down versus criticizing his poor play. 

[*wildcats forever*]

(02-20-2017, 01:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Man, it sure would be stupid to not replace Zeitler with a Guard with atleast SOME experience playing in the NFL.

This would not be a top tier O-line if we brought in Leary, it would just cover up a hole. Sounds more likely to me
than the team just letting the entire O-line disentegrate. Say what you want about how this team has handled things
in the past but this would be WAY worse.

Even in my scenario we would still have Bodine at Center and Fisher at RT. Not a top tier O-line by any standards.

No doubt, but the possibility exists that Fisher performs better at RT after a focused camp and preseason. At least that alone should flush out whether he should be there or not. As it looks now, I think it's probably Fisher's job to lose. Getting a competent/experienced backup is likely the best we'll see there. Which could still be Winston, if his body can be counted on to deliver.

I don't know how much better Bodine can improve, or if that's a possibility. Boling and Zeitler have provided enough stability for him to grow at C, and we've all seen the results. What are those 'little things' he needs to work on to improve? Can he learn and actually do them? And if he can't, when will the staff look to upgrade? 

Like Whitworth and Boling, Zeitler has proven to be a keeper. Beyond his talent, I'm thinking about the value of continuity and chemistry for the line as a unit. In my previous post, I was projecting what I thought the staff might do - not what I was hoping they would do. TJ Johnson showed some competency late in the season that was a relief to see, kinda/sorta. It solidified his value to the team at a minimum. But does he have the talent to move up to starter? Dunno. Westerman and Hopkins (to a lessor extent) are unknowns to some significant degree, at least in 2017 terms. And a "Leary" might just be a patch.

However it all shakes out though, 2017 will likely start out as only marginally better at best. The correction to '16's woes will not happen quickly, but keeping Whit and Zeitler seems to be the best chance of keeping 2017 from being a long and unsuccessful season for sure. Time of possession has to improve, points per game have to increase, etc - all to minimize exposing the weaknesses on defense, should we fail to improve pass rush and maintain secondary play.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2017, 03:09 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: No doubt, but the possibility exists that Fisher performs better at RT after a focused camp and preseason. At least that alone should flush out whether he should be there or not. As it looks now, I think it's probably Fisher's job to lose. Getting a competent/experienced backup is likely the best we'll see there. Which could still be Winston, if his body can be counted on to deliver.

I don't know how much better Bodine can improve, or if that's a possibility. Boling and Zeitler have provided enough stability for him to grow at C, and we've all seen the results. What are those 'little things' he needs to work on to improve? Can he learn and actually do them? And if he can't, when will the staff look to upgrade? 

Like Whitworth and Boling, Zeitler has proven to be a keeper. Beyond his talent, I'm thinking about the value of continuity and chemistry for the line as a unit. In my previous post, I was projecting what I thought the staff might do - not what I was hoping they would do. TJ Johnson showed some competency late in the season that was a relief to see, kinda/sorta. It solidified his value to the team at a minimum. But does he have the talent to move up to starter? Dunno. Westerman and Hopkins (to a lessor extent) are unknowns to some significant degree, at least in 2017 terms. And a "Leary" might just be a patch.

However it all shakes out though, 2017 will likely start out as only marginally better at best. The correction to '16's woes will not happen quickly, but keeping Whit and Zeitler seems to be the best chance of keeping 2017 from being a long and unsuccessful season for sure. Time of possession has to improve, points per game have to increase, etc - all to minimize exposing the weaknesses on defense, should we fail to improve pass rush and maintain secondary play.

Great post brother. Spot on about chemistry being the main reason why you keep both Whit and Zeit.

Just been reading a lot about Zeitler testing the market which is dumb by us if we want to keep chemistry on
the O-line. After a season where your weakness was the O-line you don't just let one of your good players go
if you want to improve. You get rid of the poor players and add to the good, not the other way around.

Assuming Zeitler gets paid well somewhere else which i think is a good assumption right now i would...

-Bring back Whitworth for atleast a year, maybe the franchise tag.
-Bring in Ronald Leary or Chance Warmack at RG.
-Bring in Ricky Wagner at RT and have him as a starter regardless once Whit leaves, at LT or RT.
-Draft one of the top Centers whether it is Elfein, Toth, Pocic, Orlovski etc.

It looks even with this Line we would have some chemistry issues early on but this is just going to happen
cause of the way PA and Marv have handled this issue. Gonna have chemistry issues regardless but this OL
could be top tier by mid-season and our entire Offense would improve and so would our Defense because
they wouldn't get tired, running game should be much better.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

If it was up to me I wouldn't bring any of those offensive linemen back to Cincinnati. Heck, I would give them all a restraining order to stay at least a hundred miles from Paul Brown Stadium. I'd like to see them fight a restraining order because they would lose. These blubber butts couldn't escape any kind of restraints. I'm sick and tired of seeing Big Whiff punked by 80 year old James Harrison. Andrew Whitworth was a great player and under the right coaching he could have one more good season, maybe in New England.

It's time to blow up the offensive line currently on the roster and find the five biggest talents in the world either through free agency, through the draft, or preferably both. Let Andrew Whitworth walk. Keeping him in Cincinnati is merely prolonging the inevitable. Let Kevin Zeitler walk too. These moves should free up some big league dough to attract some big league talent. Certainly there are five men playing football somewhere at the college or pro level who possess such massive talent not even Paul Alexander could screw them up. That was what it was like in the days when the Bengals' line had stellar men like Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Rich Braham, and Eric Steinbach on it: Those guys were so good they could overcome the Piano Man's massive coaching deficiencies.

This isn't New England and Paul Alexander isn't Dante Scarnecchia. Up there the coaching turns out the talent. Here in Cincinnati the talent must overcome bad coaching.

[*bengalfan74*]

I believe without question the offensive line is the top priority for fixing. We need LBer help, another pass rushing DE, RB prehaps ? and other things but we're going nowhere if they stand pat on the O-line !

If Ogbuehi doesn't take a light year forward leap in training camp, (and I have nearly zero faith he will) we need Whit back and getting his replacement in here via FA. Bodine is a backup at best and needs replaced - period. If Zeitler and Whit both walk we're in trouble. IMHO

I firmly believe this team needs a minimum of two top tier FA's to seriously be a contender this coming season. Whether it's a C and a LBer, RG and a DE, LT and a C ? What we have waiting in the wings and the draft isn't going to put us over the top before the window starts shutting, hard and fast on our core of good players.

I have little faith they're going to fix the O-line BTW.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2017, 05:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: If it was up to me I wouldn't bring any of those offensive linemen back to Cincinnati.  Heck, I would give them all a restraining order to stay at least a hundred miles from Paul Brown Stadium.  I'd like to see them fight a restraining order because they would lose.  These blubber butts couldn't escape any kind of restraints. I'm sick and tired of seeing Big Whiff punked by 80 year old James Harrison.  Andrew Whitworth was a great player and under the right coaching he could have one more good season, maybe in New England.

It's time to blow up the offensive line currently on the roster and find the five biggest talents in the world either through free agency, through the draft, or preferably both.  Let Andrew Whitworth walk.  Keeping him in Cincinnati is merely prolonging the inevitable.  Let Kevin Zeitler walk too.  These moves should free up some big league dough to attract some big league talent.  Certainly there are five men playing football somewhere at the college or pro level who possess such massive talent not even Paul Alexander could screw them up.  That was what it was like in the days when the Bengals' line had stellar men like Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Rich Braham, and Eric Steinbach on it:  Those guys were so good they could overcome the Piano Man's massive coaching deficiencies.

This isn't New England and Paul Alexander isn't Dante Scarnecchia. Up there the coaching turns out the talent.  Here in Cincinnati the talent must overcome bad coaching.

I usually like your posts FIK but not this one, unless you are being sarcastic.

Calling Whit big Whiff is an insult and he has always handled Harrison better than any other LT in the NFL.

There are no LT's that would come in and protect Dalton's blindside better than Whitworth. Until he shows some fall off i won't believe it.

I am all for blowing up the Center, RG and RT positions but we need to keep Whit and Boling.

Cut ties with PA and everything should be better and the new guy could actually coach up our young guys.