Hobson - only $15 million of cap to work with?

[*ochocincos*]

In Hobson's latest article on Bengals.com titled "How fine is nine?", there is a section called Whit's Worth. Inside, the following quote...

Hobspin Wrote:The Bengals figure to have about $15 million to spend that’s going to be focused on bringing back their own guys with Whitworth, cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick, right guard Kevin Zeitler, and running back Rex Burkhead heading the list.

Full article here - http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/How-fine-is-nine-Bengals-alive-and-kicking-with-Simmons-at-helm/f9b88411-55bb-4c61-a69e-f281a1cd8a6d

Normally, Hobson would spout off reasons why the full $43 million cannot be spent. This time, he just flat out says "Bengals can only spend X" and leaves it at that. Probably because he knows giving any kind of reasoning will be ridiculed. We all know how the breakdown should be and that the Bengals should have somewhere in the low $30 millions to spend. Saying only $15 million is immediately saying this franchise is not going to win a playoff game.

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 10:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: In Hobson's latest article on Bengals.com titled "How fine is nine?", there is a section called Whit's Worth. Inside, the following quote...


Full article here - http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/How-fine-is-nine-Bengals-alive-and-kicking-with-Simmons-at-helm/f9b88411-55bb-4c61-a69e-f281a1cd8a6d

Normally, Hobson would spout off reasons why the full $43 million cannot be spent. This time, he just flat out says "Bengals can only spend X" and leaves it at that. Probably because he knows giving any kind of reasoning will be ridiculed. We all know how the breakdown should be and that the Bengals should have somewhere in the low $30 millions to spend. Saying only $15 million is immediately saying this franchise is not going to win a playoff game.

It really sucks when your love is used against you.  That's what being a Bengals fan is.  They just think we're ***** idiots.  In a way, I guess we are.

Where'd the rest of the money go?

[THE PISTONS]

Well...the Bengals have been negotiating with Whitworth or at least talking to his agent.

I'm guessing this article is preparing fans for the fact that the Bengals may only re-sign 1 of their big 3 free agents.

I don't know how much of our reported cap space is rollover cap space from being under the cap in past years. I'm guessing part of that factors into this number.

[jj22]

I'd consider that fake news. In the mean time supposedly cash strapped Pitt has re-signed Brown to a blockbuster deal making him highest paid wideout, and tagged Bell. This after breaking bank on Decastro etc. But we all secretly know they are the better organization. And we also know why.

This is why Whit should go and try to win a ring with a organization that wants one.

It's also why we probably won't get another coach to come in and work under these handicapping conditions.

[samhain]

Where in the world does he come up with that number? I've heard low 40s just about everywhere, and that's with no players being released.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-28-2017, 10:52 AM)samhain Wrote: Where in the world does he come up with that number?  I've heard low 40s just about everywhere, and that's with no players being released.

Exactly. What I don't understand is why the Bengals don't ever seem to make an effort to restructure deals for underperforming players like Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga, etc. if they really want to keep them around through the entirety of their contracts. This team has about $10 million in wasted cap space (at least) between Maualuga, MJ, and Adam Jones alone.

The best teams restructure deals nearly annually and cut dead weight to stay under the cap and continually improve their teams.

[samhain]

(02-28-2017, 10:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly. What I don't understand is why the Bengals don't ever seem to make an effort to restructure deals for underperforming players like Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga, etc. if they really want to keep them around through the entirety of their contracts. This team has about $10 million in wasted cap space (at least) between Maualuga, MJ, and Adam Jones alone.

The best teams restructure deals nearly annually and cut dead weight to stay under the cap and continually improve their teams.

To boot, in one of his Hobson's choice responses, he talks about the need to get both Whit and Kirkpatrick re-signed.  That most certainly is not happening for 15 million, no way no how, and absolutely not with Burkhead in the mix.  

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 10:52 AM)samhain Wrote: Where in the world does he come up with that number?  I've heard low 40s just about everywhere, and that's with no players being released.

The only thing I can figure is he's subtracting out rollover space that we carried forward from not spending at the cap as that isn't recurring.

We have about $44.5 cap space.
- $6.5 million that we rolled over. (In reality this can be used for signing bonuses, etc. and the cap should keep rising each year.)
-------------------------------------------
$38 million
-9.2 million - Our rookie pool is around $9.2 million. (https://overthecap.com/draft/)
--------------------------------------------
$28.8 million

All I can figure is that he is saving money for a Burfict extension or something like that. He allocated for that with Dalton and Green.

[nkets]

Comical usually he spins his reasoning towards "rookie pool" yadda yadda this year he didn't even bother to add any support.... Same old Hobspin except now he's just gotten lazy on us

Other than draft night the off-season is so frustrating as a fan of this franchise

[Au165]

I intially had an issue with it too, but after thinking about it more I can find the math. I am going to back into the math here, and honestly it does make sense if you are looking to the future. The issue is it doesn't take into account letting guys go on expiring deals and such.

I think we will need around 9 million in cap for our draft picks when taking comp picks into account. That moves us down to roughly 35 Million in cap. Assume we are pulling out our pool for resigning Eiffert and Burfict next year, you can conservatively assume they will combine for 17 Million. This takes us down to around 18 Million in cap and the difference may be them pulling out money for UDFA and such along with their "injury" pool.

I think the big discrepancy is they are all ready earmarking funds for Burfict and Eiffert which they should, but Fans don't anticipate that. Now they could save money for next year by back loading those deals, but with their injury histories I'd take the big cap hit on them next year to save you if things go south later.

[McC]

This is Goebbels' way of preparing us for 4-12.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 11:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: I intially had an issue with it too, but after thinking about it more I can find the math. I am going to back into the math here, and honestly it does make sense if you are looking to the future. The issue is it doesn't take into account letting guys go on expiring deals and such.

I think we will need around 9 million in cap for our draft picks when taking comp picks into account. That moves us down to roughly 35 Million in cap. Assume we are pulling out our pool for resigning Eiffert and Burfict next year, you can conservatively assume they will combine for 17 Million. This takes us down to around 18 Million in cap and the difference may be them pulling out money for UDFA and such along with their "injury" pool.

I think the big discrepancy is they are all ready earmarking funds for Burfict and Eiffert which they should, but Fans don't anticipate that. Now they could save money for next year by back loading those deals, but with their injury histories I'd take the big cap hit on them next year to save you if things go south later.

The cap also rises each year by $4 to $12 million dollars.

Plus as you said guys like Maulauga will come off the books.

[muskiesfan]

(02-28-2017, 11:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: I intially had an issue with it too, but after thinking about it more I can find the math. I am going to back into the math here, and honestly it does make sense if you are looking to the future. The issue is it doesn't take into account letting guys go on expiring deals and such.

I think we will need around 9 million in cap for our draft picks when taking comp picks into account. That moves us down to roughly 35 Million in cap. Assume we are pulling out our pool for resigning Eiffert and Burfict next year, you can conservatively assume they will combine for 17 Million. This takes us down to around 18 Million in cap and the difference may be them pulling out money for UDFA and such along with their "injury" pool.

I think the big discrepancy is they are all ready earmarking funds for Burfict and Eiffert which they should, but Fans don't anticipate that. Now they could save money for next year by back loading those deals, but with their injury histories I'd take the big cap hit on them next year to save you if things go south later.

Lets say the $17 million figure for Eifert and Burfict is right. They wouldn't need to set the entire $17 million aside from this year's cap. Contracts will come off the books next year and the cap will rise again. The Bengals roll over money year to year so not to spend it. They keep more than damn near every team in the league for injury pool, but barely spend any of it. It's all ways for Mike Brown to stay as cheap as possible and pocket some extra money along the way.

They're taking away ~$30 million in cap space just because. $9 million for rookies, $1 million for practice squad, and the absurd $5 million for injuries and that would leave them almost $30 million in space to use this year. Instead, they're taking out an extra $15 million for no real reason.

Honestly, how is it that 31 teams seem to work with a different salary cap than the Bengals? We seem to be the only team that receives cap money that has to at least be cut by 50% out of the gate, then subtract additional monies for ????. Our owner and GM has no desire to spend money to win.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 11:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: I intially had an issue with it too, but after thinking about it more I can find the math. I am going to back into the math here, and honestly it does make sense if you are looking to the future. The issue is it doesn't take into account letting guys go on expiring deals and such.

I think we will need around 9 million in cap for our draft picks when taking comp picks into account. That moves us down to roughly 35 Million in cap. Assume we are pulling out our pool for resigning Eiffert and Burfict next year, you can conservatively assume they will combine for 17 Million. This takes us down to around 18 Million in cap and the difference may be them pulling out money for UDFA and such along with their "injury" pool.

I think the big discrepancy is they are all ready earmarking funds for Burfict and Eiffert which they should, but Fans don't anticipate that. Now they could save money for next year by back loading those deals, but with their injury histories I'd take the big cap hit on them next year to save you if things go south later.

Whitworth will likely only be signing a 1 or 2 year deal. It's not like he's going to be here for 5-7 years. His deal should make it easy to budget for upcoming free agents.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 11:21 AM)Au165 Wrote: I intially had an issue with it too, but after thinking about it more I can find the math. I am going to back into the math here, and honestly it does make sense if you are looking to the future. The issue is it doesn't take into account letting guys go on expiring deals and such.

I think we will need around 9 million in cap for our draft picks when taking comp picks into account. That moves us down to roughly 35 Million in cap. Assume we are pulling out our pool for resigning Eiffert and Burfict next year, you can conservatively assume they will combine for 17 Million. This takes us down to around 18 Million in cap and the difference may be them pulling out money for UDFA and such along with their "injury" pool.

I think the big discrepancy is they are all ready earmarking funds for Burfict and Eiffert which they should, but Fans don't anticipate that. Now they could save money for next year by back loading those deals, but with their injury histories I'd take the big cap hit on them next year to save you if things go south later.

The purpose of backloading a contract is to avoid the large cap hit if things go south later.  The signing bonus gets pro-rated evenly over every year of the contract.  So the cap hit for a signing bonus is the same in the last year as the first year.  Salary and other bonuses (like roster bonuses) usually increase over the life of the contract and these can be avoided by releasing the player.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Cue Marvin: The salary cap isn't anything to worry about. The whole team needs to do a better job of managing it.

[McC]

If their intent is to only sign Whit and let the other three walk, how do we know Whit doesn't look at that and say hell no and go chase a ring somewhere? And if Whit goes, Andy won't be able to get life insurance.

[THE PISTONS]

There are a bunch of teams with $40+ million in cap space. I doubt their team websites are talking about how they only have $15 million to spend.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 11:39 AM)McC Wrote: If their intent is to only sign Whit and let the other three walk, how do we know Whit doesn't look at that and say hell no and go chase a ring somewhere?  And if Whit goes, Andy won't be able to get life insurance.

Well...I doubt they sign Z regardless. They aren't going to give him $12 million a year.

Whitworth very well could walk.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 11:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are a bunch of teams with $40+ million in cap space. I doubt their team websites are talking about how they only have $15 million to spend.

Agreed.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

According to Over the Cap, the Bengals have the 12th most cash to spend in FA this season.

It isn't spring until six weeks after Punxsutanwney Phil sees his shadow, robins return from their winter migration, and the Bengals' annual poor mouthing to start free agency.

Look on the bright side, the Bengals won't sign any quality free agents this spring so they get a late third round comp pick for the loss of Whitworth, Zeitler, or Kirpatrick . . . at best.

Hard to argue with the results of model model: 26 years without a playoff win and counting.