Hobson - only $15 million of cap to work with?

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 12:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: That is misleading that is cap space coming up. Look at cap space last year at the end of the season, we had less. We actually spent 7 million more than the Patriots.

And again it comes back to how well it is spent.  They spent less and won a SB.  We spent more and took ten steps back.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 12:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: No way we re-sign 2 out of the 3 with just 15M. So when/if we do, you'll see he was downplaying how much we can spend.

No the structure of the contract can have a lot to do with it. Also other cuts could occur that open more. It could also signal an inability to sign one of our FA's this year. Your statement proves nothing, but the end of year balance sheet proves we spend the money every year just not on outside FA's.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 12:46 PM)McC Wrote: And again it comes back to how well it is spent.  They spent less and won a SB.  We spent more and took ten steps back.

...once again I agree, but thats not what people are still pointing at. They can hate Hobsen, but his math has been accurate over the years for the most part and the NFLPA records show the money is all getting spent for the most part.

[bengalsturntup926]

(02-28-2017, 12:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: Okay, but if every year he does his math (and you don't believe him) and every year we end up close to being even with cap where is the disconnect? The money isn't vanishing, it is getting spent, so then what did he lie about? I agree we could do better jobs at freeing cap, or doing an occasional restructure, but the free cap gets spent.

They could report it's being spent and you'd take their word for it.please tell us where all our money goes when we don't do free agency and we are one of the top cap spaces every year?you don't even know where it goes your just going off some article. 

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 12:50 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: They could report it's being spent and you'd take their word for it.please tell us where all our money goes when we don't do free agency and we are one of the top cap spaces every year?you don't even know where it goes your just going off some article. 

All of the cap numbers for 2016 can be found here, this information is gathered from the NFLPA who's job it is to make sure every number is correct. Your conspiracy theory is just that, a conspiracy theory.

So to your point, no I am not going off an article but rather the factual data out there.

[bengalsturntup926]

(02-28-2017, 12:48 PM)Au165 Wrote: ...once again I agree, but thats not what people are still pointing at. They can hate Hobsen, but his math has been accurate over the years for the most part and the NFLPA records show the money is all getting spent for the most part.

Let's see, we let our own guys walk unless they are a really big name like aj green or dalton,we only sign the cheapest guys we can get in free agency. And have dead weight guys getting too much money.that's why people get ticked off at hobsons bull crap money assumptions and articles.  Anybody who don't think it's skeptical,I dont know what to tell you. Our organization is a big joke. I love the Bengals but it's literally like being in a hurtful relationship with them, I just laugh at most stuff anymore, it's like watching comedy being a Bengals fan. 

[JumboTron]

(02-28-2017, 12:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: Okay, but if every year he does his math (and you don't believe him) and every year we end up close to being even with cap where is the disconnect? The money isn't vanishing, it is getting spent, so then what did he lie about? I agree we could do better jobs at freeing cap, or doing an occasional restructure, but the free cap gets spent.

Yep, agreed.

Look, I am the furthest thing from a qualified "Salary Cap Analyst" or anything resembling one, but the money is being utilized.  I understand the frustration in seeing the $15 million number being thrown around, especially when talking about resigning some of our core guys, but so many factors are to be considered when spending available cap space that is allocated each off-season.  

Do I think the Bengals are among the league's best when it comes to salary cap management?  Nope.  But to say things like "the Bengals work with a different cap than 31 other teams" or Mike Brown is just being downright lazy in cap spending is, in my opinion, a bit ridiculous.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 12:23 PM)Au165 Wrote: As I said we spent up to within 5 million last year and rolled over most to this year, so where is that money not getting used? Everyone's argument falls apart when you realize we are ending seasons right at the cap, we are not sitting around at the end of the year with $20 million in cap space.

According to Over the Cap, it was slightly more, but let's go with the $5 million figure.  That $5 million is the difference between re-signing Marvin Jones vs. LaFell. Or signing a LBer better than Dansby. But, every year we are told we can't use that $5 million to re-sign our Marvin Joneses because we have to re-sign our Whitworths, Zeitlers, and or Kirkpatricks next.  Well, it's next year.  And what do they tell us?  We can't re-sign Whitworth, Zeitler, and Kirkpatrick because next year we have to re-sign Eifert and Burfict.

Meanwhile, the team signs another FA on his last leg like Dansby. Plus they retain underperforming veterans like Maualuga and Michael Johnson.  Why?  Because IOT get the home town discount when players re-sign with the team, they almost always allow the player to play out the life of the contract even when they need to be replaced in favor of an upgrade ala Maualuga and Johnson.  Johnson's a one year wonder and Maualuga is 2 down zero year wonder.

It's not just the math, but the BS explanation combined with the how they spend it x the amount of years they have done it.

[NATI BENGALS]

I threw up in my mouth a little when I just saw his 15$ million in that article.

wow

[bengals67]

how does this team have any season ticket holders?

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 01:11 PM)bengals67 Wrote: how does this team have any season ticket holders?

One word--tradition.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 01:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: According to Over the Cap, it was slightly more, but let's go with the $5 million figure.  That $5 million is the difference between re-signing Marvin Jones vs. LaFell. Or signing a LBer better than Dansby. But, every year we are told we can't use that $5 million to re-sign our Marvin Joneses because we have to re-sign our Whitworths, Zeitlers, and or Kirkpatricks next.  Well, it's next year.  And what do they tell us?  We can't re-sign Whitworth, Zeitler, and Kirkpatrick because next year we have to re-sign Eifert and Burfict.

Meanwhile, the team signs another FA on his last leg like Dansby. Plus they retain underperforming veterans like Maualuga and Michael Johnson.  Why?  Because IOT get the home town discount when players re-sign with the team, they almost always allow the player to play out the life of the contract even when they need to be replaced in favor of an upgrade ala Maualuga and Johnson.  Johnson's a one year wonder and Maualuga is 2 down zero year wonder.

It's not just the math, but the BS explanation combined with the how they spend it x the amount of years they have done it.

We offered Marvin the same deal he took in DET, so I am not sure what else you wanted us to do. It's tough to know how much you will need in contract negotiations because structure has a lot to do with it and you have to find a structure that works for everyone.

Once again, I don't disagree with the thought we don't spend money the best at times, however we do spend it which is the argument that has been presented in this thread.

If Hobson did this same article last year and at the end said "that leaves us $5 Million to play with in FA" would everyone have had a different view? I'd guess no. They would still argue his math was misleading and so on.

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 12:39 PM)Housh Wrote: You guys are forgetting the Mike Brown oersonal sandwhich maker fund we have to keep at around 10 million


So instead of the 43 mil we have, it went to 15 because of........reasons

and when you factor in the executive sandwhich maker position we actiually have about 78 dollars to spend in free agency.


Gotta keep that 20 mil for the draft right?


So when we actually do get stars we can let them walk like Zeitler lol

I love this team





Just for the record Steelers had no cap space either and spent close to 100 million dollars on 2 players



We wouldve picked Brown OR Bell. If you think this franchise wouldve kept both your lying to yourself.


Theres a reason other teams have success and we dont

The difference is this--they want to win more SB's.  We just say we want to win one.  We don't act like we do.  We just say we do.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 12:53 PM)Au165 Wrote: All of the cap numbers for 2016 can be found here, this information is gathered from the NFLPA who's job it is to make sure every number is correct. Your conspiracy theory is just that, a conspiracy theory.

So to your point, no I am not going off an article but rather the factual data out there.

From the link, rollover:

2015 $7.6 million
2014 $8.7 million
2013 $8.7 million
2012 $8.6 million

We don't spend it, we don't spend it, we don't spend it, we don't spend it.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 01:21 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: From the link, rollover:

2015 $7.6 million
2014 $8.7 million
2013 $8.7 million
2012 $8.6 million

We don't spend it, we don't spend it, we don't spend it, we don't spend it.

And we resigned Andy and AJ coming out of those roll over years and we now have the least amount of cap we have had post season. Note in a lot of those years teams having more success ended with more cap than us. The issue isn't the amount we spend it is how we spend it.

I'll be curious where we end this year assuming we keep Burfict and Eiffert.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 01:14 PM)Au165 Wrote: We offered Marvin the same deal he took in DET, so I am not sure what else you wanted us to do. It's tough to know how much you will need in contract negotiations because structure has a lot to do with it and you have to find a structure that works for everyone.

Once again, I don't disagree with the thought we don't spend money the best at times, however we do spend it which is the argument that has been presented in this thread.

If Hobson did this same article last year and at the end said "that leaves us $5 Million to play with in FA" would everyone have had a different view? I'd guess no. They would still argue his math was misleading and so on.

Hobson reported we offered Marvin Jones a similar deal.  There is a difference between similar and the same.  Kinda like the similar deal we offered Jonathan Joseph which turned out to include less guaranteed money compared to the Texans' offer.  The Bengals rationale was he might get more guaranteed money with the Texans, but we are less likely to cut him so he might make slightly more over the life of the contract.  In an industry where an employee is one play away from career ending injury and the team not full filing the contract, that is a poor strategy.

When Hobson reports "similar" that's code for not the same.  Unless I see the details of each offer nothing will convince me otherwise.

[muskiesfan]

The team rolled over money from last year to this year. The team has also said that the money rolled over from last year wasn't for this year's free agents. That means that money will be rolled over again and more will probably be added to that number. That is the team saying it is not getting spent. That's straight from the horse's mouth. I don't have to make up anything that they don't spend money. They've already said they're not spending that money this year.

I still stand by my statement that the rest of the league must use a different salary cap. Somehow, cash strapped teams are able to retain their own and even add higher tier free agents. The Bengals somehow are unable to figure out how that process works. We get told by the team that we draft, develop, and keep. However, we draft, develop, let them leave, replace them with bottom tier free agents (cheaper) or draft picks (cheaper).

While the actual statement is not true, all 32 teams have the same salary cap, there are 31 teams who find ways to use it to make an effort to add talent while 1 team constantly spreads misinformation to their fans. The Bengals have the space and ability to sign their own and even B level free agents. They chose not to.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 01:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hobson reported we offered Marvin Jones a similar deal.  There is a difference between similar and the same.  Kinda like the similar deal we offered Jonathan Joseph which turned out to include less guaranteed money compared to the Texans' offer.  The Bengals rationale was he might get more guaranteed money with the Texans, but we are less likely to cut him so he might make slightly more over the life of the contract.  In an industry where an employee is one play away from career ending injury and the team not full filing the contract, that is a poor strategy.

When Hobson reports "similar" that's code for not the same.  Unless I see the details of each offer nothing will convince me otherwise.

Honestly, nothing will really convince you because you have a preconceived narrative in your head. Let's look at it this way then, assume we didn't offer him the same deal, we instead paid Brandon Lafell far less and didn't want to overpay for Jones.

Lafell 64 catches 862 yards 6 TDs
Jones 55 catches 930 yards 4 TDs

Maybe they were right not to offer them the same deal if that's your theory? If that was the case, that would mean the Bengals management actually was smart. Maybe his past injury issues are why they wouldn't pay him the same deal? Pick your path either they tried to spend the money and gave him the same ill advised deal, or they low balled him found a comparable replacement for far less I'll let you make the call.

[Bengalholic]

(02-28-2017, 10:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: In Hobson's latest article on Bengals.com titled "How fine is nine?", there is a section called Whit's Worth. Inside, the following quote...


Full article here - http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/How-fine-is-nine-Bengals-alive-and-kicking-with-Simmons-at-helm/f9b88411-55bb-4c61-a69e-f281a1cd8a6d

Normally, Hobson would spout off reasons why the full $43 million cannot be spent. This time, he just flat out says "Bengals can only spend X" and leaves it at that. Probably because he knows giving any kind of reasoning will be ridiculed. We all know how the breakdown should be and that the Bengals should have somewhere in the low $30 millions to spend. Saying only $15 million is immediately saying this franchise is not going to win a playoff game.

Hobson said the exact same thing last year about only having 15m to spend, yet they ended up spending about 27m.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 01:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Hobson said the exact same thing last year about the Bengals only having 15m to spend, yet they would spending about 27m.

Which means they found money, but the end result was still us spending close to the floor without bringing in big FA's. Although I'd argue Lafell was about as good as any FA WR last year.