Hobson - only $15 million of cap to work with?

[THE PISTONS]

The Steelers made Brown the highest paid WR in the league, franchise tagged Bell making him a Top 5-paid RB, and gave DeCastro who is a Guard...a HUGE contract.

They had almost half the cap space that we do.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-28-2017, 01:57 PM)McC Wrote: I wouldn't re-sign him at all.  His injury history says it all.

Yeah, a player can only be great if they're on the field to be great. Dude's missed 27 games/34 starts due to injury in 4 years.

Rob Gronkowski has missed 24 games/32 starts due to injury in 7 years.

And even a healthy Eifert is no Rob Gronkowski. Can't pay $8m+/yr for a guy who'll play maybe 9-10 games a year.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-28-2017, 02:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Steelers made Brown the highest paid WR in the league, franchise tagged Bell making him a Top 5-paid RB, and gave DeCastro who is a Guard...a HUGE contract.

They had almost half the cap space that we do.

And imagine how dumb they will look when they can't sign their rookies, or sign anyone when people get injured, or have any money saved up for Bud Dupree's contract in 2019.  

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Its utterly ridiculous this franchise hasn't franchised Dre K and released Adam

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 02:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Steelers made Brown the highest paid WR in the league, franchise tagged Bell making him a Top 5-paid RB, and gave DeCastro who is a Guard...a HUGE contract.

They had almost half the cap space that we do.

Shows how stupid they are.  What about their rollover and injury money?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 01:26 PM)Au165 Wrote: And we resigned Andy and AJ coming out of those roll over years and we now have the least amount of cap we have had post season. Note in a lot of those years teams having more success ended with more cap than us. The issue isn't the amount we spend it is how we spend it.

I'll be curious where we end this year assuming we keep Burfict and Eiffert.

What is the cumulative effect of not spending that money every year?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-28-2017, 01:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: Honestly, nothing will really convince you because you have a preconceived narrative in your head. Let's look at it this way then, assume we didn't offer him the same deal, we instead paid Brandon Lafell far less and didn't want to overpay for Jones.

Lafell 64 catches 862 yards 6 TDs
Jones 55 catches 930 yards 4 TDs

Maybe they were right not to offer them the same deal if that's your theory? If that was the case, that would mean the Bengals management actually was smart. Maybe his past injury issues are why they wouldn't pay him the same deal? Pick your path either they tried to spend the money and gave him the same ill advised deal, or they low balled him found a comparable replacement for far less I'll let you make the call.

You are comparing LaFell's stats over 16 games compared to Jones' stats of 15 games.  So do you believe Jones' stats may have been better over the same 16 game stretch in the system he spent the previous 4 seasons?

At least the Bengals were able to rollover the money the didn't use to re-sign Jones so they cannot resign their FAs this year so they can roll it over to next season.

[*wildcats forever*]

(02-28-2017, 02:21 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What is the cumulative effect of not spending that money every year?

A fair question for sure. And the first 'flip' answer that comes to mind is fattening Mike Brown's wallet. He is in a 'for profit' business.

But my far more sincere response is (first) challenging the numbers being offered from various sources. Doing the math with absolute 'real' expenditures versus rollovers and estimates for the various categories should be a straight-forward exercise. The fact that we see variables from multiple sources clues me into believing that "we" won't ever know the real financials involved. And since we're not Green Bay, we'll get what they want to give, and nothing more.

We'd be better off pondering the freckles on Amy Adams.....

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 02:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Steelers made Brown the highest paid WR in the league, franchise tagged Bell making him a Top 5-paid RB, and gave DeCastro who is a Guard...a HUGE contract.

They had almost half the cap space that we do.

And this is why we'll never catch up to them.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 02:37 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You are comparing LaFell's stats over 16 games compared to Jones' stats of 15 games.  So do you believe Jones' stats may have been better over the same 16 game stretch in the system he spent the previous 4 seasons?

At least the Bengals were able to rollover the money the didn't use to re-sign Jones so they cannot resign their FAs this year so they can roll it over to next season.

What that person isn't factoring in is the Bengals actually offerred Jones the same deal the Lions offerred and he went to the Lions.

Once Jones went to the Lions, they then kept Iloka with that money.

The Bengals absolutely wanted to retain Jones.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/3/9/11190522/bengals-reportedly-offered-marvin-jones-a-deal-in-range-with-lions

[XenoMorph]

(02-28-2017, 02:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What that person isn't factoring in is the Bengals actually offerred Jones the same deal the Lions offerred and he went to the Lions.

Once Jones went to the Lions, they then kept Iloka with that money.

The Bengals absolutely wanted to retain Jones.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/3/9/11190522/bengals-reportedly-offered-marvin-jones-a-deal-in-range-with-lions

don't use logic or facts....    that crap don't fly round here.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 02:37 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You are comparing LaFell's stats over 16 games compared to Jones' stats of 15 games.  So do you believe Jones' stats may have been better over the same 16 game stretch in the system he spent the previous 4 seasons?

At least the Bengals were able to rollover the money the didn't use to re-sign Jones so they cannot resign their FAs this year so they can roll it over to next season.

Availability is the best ability. If he isn't on the field it doesn't matter. Lafell was there and Jones wasn't, which has been his MO most his career. Even if he had played 16 the stats don't justify paying 4x for Jones over Lafell.

[kevin]

(02-28-2017, 10:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: In Hobson's latest article on Bengals.com titled "How fine is nine?", there is a section called Whit's Worth. Inside, the following quote...


Full article here - http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/How-fine-is-nine-Bengals-alive-and-kicking-with-Simmons-at-helm/f9b88411-55bb-4c61-a69e-f281a1cd8a6d

Normally, Hobson would spout off reasons why the full $43 million cannot be spent. This time, he just flat out says "Bengals can only spend X" and leaves it at that. Probably because he knows giving any kind of reasoning will be ridiculed. We all know how the breakdown should be and that the Bengals should have somewhere in the low $30 millions to spend. Saying only $15 million is immediately saying this franchise is not going to win a playoff game.

I've read they could dump payroll and cap space by getting rid of Pacman....If so, the team is stupid not to do it. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-28-2017, 03:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: Availability is the best ability. If he isn't on the field it doesn't matter. Lafell was there and Jones wasn't, which has been his MO most his career. Even if he had played 16 the stats don't justify paying 4x for Jones over Lafell.

I'll at least give the Bengals this:
Brandon LaFell at $2.5 million was a much better value than Marvin Jones at $8 million or Mohamed Sanu at $6.5 million.

If the Bengals can find replacements near the same skill level for the players they will lose at less than half the cost, then good for them IMO.

[Au165]

(02-28-2017, 03:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'll at least give the Bengals this:
Brandon LaFell at $2.5 million was a much better value than Marvin Jones at $8 million or Mohamed Sanu at $6.5 million.

If the Bengals can find replacements near the same skill level for the players they will lose at less than half the cost, then good for them IMO.

This is why I have some hope. If we could snag one of these second tier vet lineman we could be fine. This is actually a really good FA for that second tier O lineman and so there will be opportunities in the Bengals target price range.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 03:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'll at least give the Bengals this:
Brandon LaFell at $2.5 million was a much better value than Marvin Jones at $8 million or Mohamed Sanu at $6.5 million.

If the Bengals can find replacements near the same skill level for the players they will lose at less than half the cost, then good for them IMO.

Statistically he was...but Jones had more deep speed which would have possibly opened things up for other player.

Sometimes its about more than statistics.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-28-2017, 03:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is why I have some hope. If we could snag one of these second tier vet lineman we could be fine. This is actually a really good FA for that second tier O lineman and so there will be opportunities in the Bengals target price range.

Who is in your second tier of OL?
I like Warford or Warmack for replacement RG, but I still think the floor is set at $8 million for a decent guard.
Anyone worse than Warford or Warmack is going to spell disaster for this OL unless a better option is put in place of Bodine and/or Fisher

[THE PISTONS]

(02-28-2017, 03:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: Availability is the best ability. If he isn't on the field it doesn't matter. Lafell was there and Jones wasn't, which has been his MO most his career. Even if he had played 16 the stats don't justify paying 4x for Jones over Lafell.

Once again...the Bengals wanted to retain Jones and offerred him the same deal as the Lions offerred him. Jones chose to sign with the Lions to be the #1.

The Bengals didn't have some grand strategy to let Jones walk and replace him with Lafell. They were forced to.

Their plan was to retain Jones and let Iloka walk. Who they would have replaced Iloka with? I don't know.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-28-2017, 03:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Statistically he was...but Jones had more deep speed which would have possibly opened things up for other player.

Sometimes its about more than statistics.

That does make sense, but you're playing the "possibly" game. Since you don't know for sure what would or would not open up, you can really only go based off the stats and the money each player received.

[McC]

(02-28-2017, 03:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Once again...the Bengals wanted to retain Jones and offerred him the same deal as the Lions offerred him. Jones chose to sign with the Lions to be the #1.

The Bengals didn't have some grand strategy to let Jones walk and replace him with Lafell. They were forced to.

Their plan was to retain Jones and let Iloka walk. Who they would have replaced Iloka with? I don't know.

I gotta say, Iloka looked a whole lot more replaceable without Reggie back there.