So now, the corners.....

[samhain]

With yesterday's news about the team viewing it's available cap spend for FA at 15 mil, the tea leaves move a bit. I believe they'll likely spend 3-5 mil over that as they did last season if some appealing bargains come available.

However, even if they do, these numbers likely do not add up to signing 2 of our big 3 free agents once the new league year begins. Whitworth, IMO seems to be the priority and is most often mentioned as the guy most likely to return. This could change, obviously.

So now, we see a less-than awesome scenario taking shape at cornerback. I'd be shocked if Jones is not suspended, and Dre is going to get a huge contract. Now this team is looking at being down not only it's best young o-lineman, but also both starting corners from last season.

Unlike on the line, there are two first round picks on the roster to move up the depth chart. One, Dennard, has been a giant disappointment thus far. The other, Jackson, has not seen a NFL snap. There's the draft, and Jesus god shit dog **** will I lose my shit if they draft another first round corner. Makes me ill just saying it. Even if they did, the likelihood of him being ready in game one is very small given their recent track record at the spot.

Thoughts? is this team ready to hand the starting jobs over to two young players and see how it goes? How much if any drop off will this cause on the defense? Are we doomed to another mind-numbing first round selection that won't be ready for at least a year at the position?

[THE PISTONS]

Thus is the cycle of the NFL. Making the playoffs for 5 years in a row was great...but maybe they should have invested a little more to become an elite team.

We're now going to enter a partial rebuilding phase...and unfortunately the past 3 drafts haven't yielded much production YET.

At CB, you're looking at Jones, WJ3, Dennard, Shaw, Russell, and Benwikere. There are 3 1st Round picks in that unit...so hopefully we're ok...but I don't see us bringing in another $8-10 million a year CB. Maybe we bring in Amakumara for $5 million on a 1 year deal like he signed with the Jaguars...

There are actually a lot of good free agent CB's...so maybe we wait and get one on the cheap.

I think Kirkpatrick goes to Cleveland or SF.

[Yojimbo]

I think next year is a "rebuilding" year in that we'll see a lot of young players getting a shot finally. Billings at DT, Fisher at RT or RG, Vigil at LB, Boyd and Core at WR and the top corners are likely to be Shaw, Dennard, Jackson and Russell. These guys need experience if they are ever going to be good and some years when your main roster has gotten too old, you just have to hit reset and take your bumps while the kids learn.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-01-2017, 11:41 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think next year is a "rebuilding" year in that we'll see a lot of young players getting a shot finally. Billings at DT, Fisher at RT or RG, Vigil at LB, Boyd and Core at WR and the top corners are likely to be Shaw, Dennard, Jackson and Russell. These guys need experience if they are ever going to be good and some years when your main roster has gotten too old, you just have to hit reset and take your bumps while the kids learn.

Yep. I'd like to see a guy like Foster drafted on defense too. We'd be really young...but Foster would be a huge upgrade to Maualuga. We'd also have more speed all over.

[Whatever]

Kirk is tough. On one hand, you'd like to get him back with the current Jones situation. On the other, he is a quality starter, but not worth what he will get in FA.

I can understand letting him walk given that they have 2 1st rounders, a 4th rounder that's looked pretty good, and effectively a 3rd rounder behind him, but it's an uneasy feeling since Dennard, Jackson, and Russell are largely unknown.

If they're going to let the kids play, then they need to address the pass push either in FA or early in the draft. They can also sign a comparable guy like Amaksmura or take a CB in the 2nd. There's lots of talent at CB in the draft this year, and it's possible the bpa in 2 is a CB that slid out of the 1st.

[Yojimbo]

(03-01-2017, 12:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Kirk is tough. On one hand, you'd like to get him back with the current Jones situation. On the other, he is a quality starter, but not worth what he will get in FA.

I can understand letting him walk given that they have 2 1st rounders, a 4th rounder that's looked pretty good, and effectively a 3rd rounder behind him, but it's an uneasy feeling since Dennard, Jackson, and Russell are largely unknown.

If they're going to let the kids play, then they need to address the pass push either in FA or early in the draft. They can also sign a comparable guy like Amaksmura or take a CB in the 2nd. There's lots of talent at CB in the draft this year, and it's possible the bpa in 2 is a CB that slid out of the 1st.

Any corner drafted this year is even more of an unknown than those currently on the roster.

[CageTheBengal]

I'd feel good about the CB spot if we lose Jones but kept Kirk and started Dennard, WJ3 or Shaw.

I'd be disappointed if we lose Dre and are looking at Jones (suspended) and Dennard, WJ3 or Shaw opposite.

If the 2nd scenario happens the younger players will look better but Marvin will still give Jones his starting spot back.

[THE PISTONS]

The best way to make your corners look good is to have a big-time pass rush. When we got pressure from our front 4 we had that.

[Jpoore]

(03-01-2017, 11:19 AM)samhain Wrote: With yesterday's news about the team viewing it's available cap spend for FA at 15 mil, the tea leaves move a bit. I believe they'll likely spend 3-5 mil over that as they did last season if some appealing bargains come available.

However, even if they do, these numbers likely do not add up to signing 2 of our big 3 free agents once the new league year begins. Whitworth, IMO seems to be the priority and is most often mentioned as the guy most likely to return. This could change, obviously.

So now, we see a less-than awesome scenario taking shape at cornerback. I'd be shocked if Jones is not suspended, and Dre is going to get a huge contract. Now this team is looking at being down not only it's best young o-lineman, but also both starting corners from last season.

Unlike on the line, there are two first round picks on the roster to move up the depth chart. One, Dennard, has been a giant disappointment thus far. The other, Jackson, has not seen a NFL snap. There's the draft, and Jesus god shit dog **** will I lose my shit if they draft another first round corner. Makes me ill just saying it. Even if they did, the likelihood of him being ready in game one is very small given their recent track record at the spot.

Thoughts? is this team ready to hand the starting jobs over to two young players and see how it goes? How much if any drop off will this cause on the defense? Are we doomed to another mind-numbing first round selection that won't be ready for at least a year at the position?

The only corner i would take at 9 would be lattimore bc i see him as a champ bailey type. Other than than hoping we dont take a corner and go a different position at 9. Also i think rolling out a starting cb group of jackson and dennard with shaw in the slot wouldnt be horrible.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-01-2017, 11:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Thus is the cycle of the NFL. Making the playoffs for 5 years in a row was great...but maybe they should have invested a little more to become an elite team.

We're now going to enter a partial rebuilding phase...and unfortunately the past 3 drafts haven't yielded much production YET.

At CB, you're looking at Jones, WJ3, Dennard, Shaw, Russell, and Benwikere. There are 3 1st Round picks in that unit...so hopefully we're ok...but I don't see us bringing in another $8-10 million a year CB. Maybe we bring in Amakumara for $5 million on a 1 year deal like he signed with the Jaguars...

There are actually a lot of good free agent CB's...so maybe we wait and get one on the cheap.

I think Kirkpatrick goes to Cleveland or SF.

The problem is that there is no reason that we can't re-sign Z, Whit and Dre., non whatsoever.

We have the money and we will have plenty of money next year to get Eifert and Burfict signed as well.  The only thing that is holding us back is the front office's pig headed view that we need to keep $10 million for rollover, $10 million for injuries and $10 million for draft picks - hence the $15 million available.  Only the Bengals

[TKUHL]

(03-01-2017, 11:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Thus is the cycle of the NFL. Making the playoffs for 5 years in a row was great...but maybe they should have invested a little more to become an elite team.

We're now going to enter a partial rebuilding phase...and unfortunately the past 3 drafts haven't yielded much production YET.

At CB, you're looking at Jones, WJ3, Dennard, Shaw, Russell, and Benwikere. There are 3 1st Round picks in that unit...so hopefully we're ok...but I don't see us bringing in another $8-10 million a year CB. Maybe we bring in Amakumara for $5 million on a 1 year deal like he signed with the Jaguars...

There are actually a lot of good free agent CB's...so maybe we wait and get one on the cheap.

I think Kirkpatrick goes to Cleveland or SF.

Might as well forget about Jones. He shouldn't be in any future plans or logic whatsoever. Even if we do keep him we still have to consider his impending suspension, what's going to happen in court, not to mention his poor play last year. I will go Ape shit if we draft a CB in the first but I get it if they do. It's a pass happy league, you have to have good DB's and I don't think anyone feels comfortable with the options we have. I hope your right about bringing in a FA. I think that's our best option cause 2 of those 3 first round CB's we have most likely will be gone. As for WJ3 we have no idea if he's going to be any good or if he will be Dennard 2.0 otherwise known as The Best CB Marvin Has Ever Coached. SMH

[TKUHL]

If WJ3 was healthy and ready at the time rather than bringing Peerman off IR It would have been nice to let him get some experience so we can get a glimpse of what we have. I still don't understand that decision.

[Derrick]

(03-01-2017, 12:21 PM)Whatever Wrote: Kirk is tough. On one hand, you'd like to get him back with the current Jones situation.  On the other, he is a quality starter, but not worth what he will get in FA.

I can understand letting him walk given that they have 2 1st rounders, a 4th rounder that's looked pretty good, and effectively a 3rd rounder behind him, but it's an uneasy feeling since Dennard, Jackson, and Russell are largely unknown.

If they're going to let the kids play, then they need to address the pass push either in FA or early in the draft.  They can also sign a comparable guy like Amaksmura or take a CB in the 2nd.  There's lots of talent at CB in the draft this year, and it's possible the bpa in 2 is a CB that slid out of the 1st.

Is this another typical Bengals FO deal where they draft a guy high, get him tuned up to a point where he can do his job...then let him walk because they don't want to pay the going rate.? This stuff really P****s me off!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-01-2017, 12:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. I'd like to see a guy like Foster drafted on defense too. We'd be really young...but Foster would be a huge upgrade to Maualuga. We'd also have more speed all over.

I am off the Foster wagon. The concussions gave pause, but could be pushed past, but the concussions plus the rotator cuff takes him out of consideration for me. Can't spend the 9th overall on someone with a bum shoulder who has an extensive concussion history.

[coachmcneil71]

If WJlll can run and break on the ball like he did at Houston, I think he is gonna be a pleasant surprise.

It's a make or break year for Dennard. Shaw will be receiving a raise soon. Benwikere is a solid 3rd CB,if need be.

[*jason*]

(03-02-2017, 09:26 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: If WJlll can run and break on the ball like he did at Houston, I think he is gonna be a pleasant surprise.

It's a make or break year for Dennard. Shaw will be receiving a raise soon. Benwikere is a solid 3rd CB,if need be.

Agreed. Though I do think there will be a learning curve for Jackson. If he's given playing time, I think he shows a lot of flashes this year.

I think Dennard needs to be outside. I wanted the Bengals to take him in 2014. I think he can still turn out to be a very good CB. He just doesn't seem suited for the slot.

I wouldn't pay Dre Kirkpatrick what some think he will get on the open market. The guy was pretty good last year, and was a damn fine ST gunner for a year or two. Other than that... I haven't been overly impressed with him.

I'm done with Pacman...

[coachmcneil71]

(03-03-2017, 01:25 AM)jason Wrote: Agreed. Though I do think there will be a learning curve for Jackson. If he's given playing time, I think he shows a lot of flashes this year.

I think Dennard needs to be outside. I wanted the Bengals to take him in 2014. I think he can still turn out to be a very good CB. He just doesn't seem suited for the slot.

I wouldn't pay Dre Kirkpatrick what some think he will get on the open market. The guy was pretty good last year, and was a damn fine ST gunner for a year or two. Other than that... I haven't been overly impressed with him.

I'm done with Pacman...

NFL Network reported that Pitt may make a run at Dre. Named him, Prince, & another that I can't remember at the moment. I think the Butler kid?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-01-2017, 11:19 AM)samhain Wrote: With yesterday's news about the team viewing it's available cap spend for FA at 15 mil, the tea leaves move a bit.  I believe they'll likely spend 3-5 mil over that as they did last season if some appealing bargains come available.

However, even if they do, these numbers likely do not add up to signing 2 of our big 3 free agents once the new league year begins.  Whitworth, IMO seems to be the priority and is most often mentioned as the guy most likely to return.  This could change, obviously.  

So now, we see a less-than awesome scenario taking shape at cornerback.  I'd be shocked if Jones is not suspended, and Dre is going to get a huge contract.  Now this team is looking at being down not only it's best young o-lineman, but also both starting corners from last season.  

Unlike on the line, there are two first round picks on the roster to move up the depth chart.  One, Dennard, has been a giant disappointment thus far.  The other, Jackson, has not seen a NFL snap.  There's the draft, and Jesus god shit dog **** will I lose my shit if they draft another first round corner.  Makes me ill just saying it.  Even if they did, the likelihood of him being ready in game one is very small given their recent track record at the spot.

Thoughts?  is this team ready to hand the starting jobs over to two young players and see how it goes?  How much if any drop off will this cause on the defense?  Are we doomed to another mind-numbing first round selection that won't be ready for at least a year at the position?

I actually like our players we have, injuries have derailed Dennard's progress but i think if he can finally stay
healthy he could be better than both Adam and Kirkpatrick. Shaw has impressed me big time, already like this
guy. So versatile and physical Shaw could be very good as well. I think WJ3 has the highest ceiling with his
ability to play the ball in the air and his length and fluid hips.

Also like Garrett and Benwikere for depth. Might bring back CLH too.

Coyle will have his work cut out for him though with so little experience. Still lots of talent to work with.

[MoneyCityManiac]

(03-02-2017, 07:26 PM)TKUHL Wrote: If WJ3 was healthy and ready at the time rather than bringing Peerman off IR It would have been nice to let him get some experience so we can get a glimpse of what we have. I still don't understand that decision.

I would have loved to have seen Jackson get some snaps too. If I remember correctly I think I read somewhere (and I think it was an interview with Marvin Lewis) that the team was preparing to activate Jackson but when Gio went down they brought Peerman back to fill the open RB spot. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2017, 02:39 PM)MoneyCityManiac Wrote: I would have loved to have seen Jackson get some snaps too. If I remember correctly I think I read somewhere (and I think it was an interview with Marvin Lewis) that the team was preparing to activate Jackson but when Gio went down they brought Peerman back to fill the open RB spot. 

Yep and Peerman was a proven ST stud.

Starting TJ Johnson ahead of Westerman to me was a much bigger head scratcher.