If Fournette is there at #9, the Bengals Take Him

[SunsetBengal]

(03-03-2017, 06:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 4.51 is what he ended up running, which is great for 240lbs, but who knows. I'm just hesitant on any RB who weighs that much. Can't think of a relatively recent 240+ RB who's has sustained success. The closest I can think of is LeGarrette Blount, and that's not who I would want with the 9th overall.

Can't find any of his college stats that also list fumbles. CFRef and ESPN both don't list fumbles. Is that not a tracked stat in college?

From Fox Sports I found in his game log stats.  In 3 years, he had a total of 8 fumbles with 3 lost.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-03-2017, 07:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Man, you're just trying to talk him down.  If you look at the complete list for measurements of NFL RBs, from the past few years, you'll find that 9.25-9.375 is about average size for RB hands. (for example, I'm a 6'2" White guy, and mine are 9.5)  Now, the vertical leap is a bit concerning, as well as not even participating in the broad, as the broad is considered to be by many the best measure of power to weight lower body explosiveness.  I'm sure the cone drills won't be kind to him, thus putting his hopes on the 40.  If he doesn't run, then I begin to scream "Red Flag".

(03-03-2017, 07:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: From Fox Sports I found in his game log stats.  In 3 years, he had a total of 8 fumbles with 3 lost.

The hands aren't really a huge issue for me. Honestly, it was just part of the measurements I noticed.

The vertical leap/DNP broad/DNP bench is quite worrying for me, though.

They haven't done three cone or shuttles yet, I don't believe, but the 28.5" vertical is tied for third worst among RB. The broad as you said is generally a measurement of explosive power but he chose not to do it. If you're going to be the heaviest RB, you should at least be the strongest too, but he also didn't do the bench.

It might mean nothing, but I don't want potential red flags popping up for a top-10 pick. Those are the picks you can't afford to mess up on, and there's simply too many talented productive RB who come out of the later rounds every year to risk the 9th overall on a RB.


- - - - -

Thanks for the fumble stats. That's certainly not a few, but not a ton. Also admittedly have no idea how fumbles translate from college to pros. Was AP a huge fumbler in college?

[Beaker]

1. smoke screen

2. Upright runner who prefers running behind a good O line and a FB....we will give him neither of those.

3. Fast, but doesn't show great vision. When he played against Bama (with NFL caliber front 7 players) he didn't do squat.

4. Lots of mileage in a relatively short college career, doesn't bode well for his long term health.

5. No thank you.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2017, 07:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The hands aren't really a huge issue for me. Honestly, it was just part of the measurements I noticed.

The vertical leap/DNP broad/DNP bench is quite worrying for me, though.

They haven't done three cone or shuttles yet, I don't believe, but the 28.5" vertical is tied for third worst among RB. The broad as you said is generally a measurement of explosive power but he chose not to do it. If you're going to be the heaviest RB, you should at least be the strongest too, but he also didn't do the bench.

It might mean nothing, but I don't want potential red flags popping up for a top-10 pick. Those are the picks you can't afford to mess up on, and there's simply too many talented productive RB who come out of the later rounds every year to risk the 9th overall on a RB.


- - - - -

Thanks for the fumble stats. That's certainly not a few, but not a ton. Also admittedly have no idea how fumbles translate from college to pros. Was AP a huge fumbler in college?

I used to not want Fournette, sounds like you are warming up a bit as well.

I don't put that much stock in the combine though either. I like watching the guy run the ball, he is damn good at it.

One of the best in many years, i still like Dalvin Cook better but both of these guys would improve our Offense IMHO.

Fournette is so damn fast once he hits a hole, i haven't seen a back faster, no matter the size.

Dalvin can make people miss and is more dynamic, really like Cook.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-03-2017, 07:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I used to not want Fournette, sounds like you are warming up a bit as well.

I don't put that much stock in the combine though either. I like watching the guy run the ball, he is damn good at it.

One of the best in many years, i still like Dalvin Cook better but both of these guys would improve our Offense IMHO.

Fournette is so damn fast once he hits a hole, i haven't seen a back faster, no matter the size.

Dalvin can make people miss and is more dynamic, really like Cook.

Personally, I'm starting to think that Fournette has too many concerns to go in the top 10.  I still like Cook, but maybe not the best value pick for the Bengals in the top 10.  RB is one of those positions where you can find sleepers in the middle, or even late rounds that have the body and skill set to produce in the NFL.  After seeing the numbers on the "top" backs, as well as following their college careers, I'm not convinced that the Bengals should take any back at #9.  Plenty of quality backs throughout the draft.  For example, the late round sleeper that just jumped (literally) onto the radar is Joe Williams from Utah.

[BengalChris]

(03-03-2017, 02:54 AM)Trademark Wrote: Yes please!!! Fournette will be the next AP!

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/3/2/14796008/bengals-want-leonard-fournette-nfl-network

Awesome! Now he can have defenders at his ankles two and three yards deep in the backfield. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2017, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Personally, I'm starting to think that Fournette has too many concerns to go in the top 10.  I still like Cook, but maybe not the best value pick for the Bengals in the top 10.  RB is one of those positions where you can find sleepers in the middle, or even late rounds that have the body and skill set to produce in the NFL.  After seeing the numbers on the "top" backs, as well as following their college careers, I'm not convinced that the Bengals should take any back at #9.  Plenty of quality backs throughout the draft.  For example, the late round sleeper that just jumped (literally) onto the radar is Joe Williams from Utah.

Fournette's concerns to me are the ankle and the fact he is a gap scheme runner only at this point.

Cook's are definately his off the field issues. Could be right and neither are the best value for us at 9.

Love that you brought up Joe Williams, dude is a freak. He literally carried his team on his back late last year and just
simply took over games, he has amazing balance, athleticism, speed and can catch the ball out of the backfield. The
only concern about him to me was that he retired for a time last year and i still do not know what that was all about.

To get Joe in the mid rounds would make me ecstatic and would be the best for this team rather than a RB at 9.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-03-2017, 10:19 AM)milksheikh Wrote: Fournette has way more speed than Hill and has the ability to make people miss as a big back and also truck his way to to the endzone..

I wouldn't mind picking him up but I am a bit wary with our line... If he can hit the spots quick, he will be an amazing addition for sure.

I would not say 4.51 to 4.66 in their combine 40 is way more speed.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-03-2017, 08:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I would not say 4.51 to 4.66 in their combine 40 is way more speed.  

That's the difference between AJ Green and Jermaine Gresham...

...just sayin', and I don't even want Fournette.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-03-2017, 08:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's the difference between AJ Green and Jermaine Gresham...

...just sayin', and I don't even want Fournette.

Just saw this posted about Cook.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-state-seminoles/chopping-block/os-fsu-dalvin-cook-combine-testing-20170303-story.html

Says he blazed a 4.49.  Not that it changes much, just saying that dude is fast for a full bodied RB, that isn't afraid of contact.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2017, 08:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I would not say 4.51 to 4.66 in their combine 40 is way more speed.  

[Derrick]

(03-03-2017, 03:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Using a 1st round pick on a guy that was injured last year...sounds about right.

I'm all for moving on from Hill though. I've seen enough.

Still would rather a DE with our 1st pick.

Besides CincyJungle reports that Fournette has been diagnosed with arthritis in both shoulders. That may not be an issue, but it will make teams pump the brakes.

[Derrick]

(03-03-2017, 10:32 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The Bengals have drafted two RB's in the first round: Ki-Jana Carter (first overall) & Chris Perry (26th).

With that said, the history dictates they don't go RB that high. Second round, however, is totally different. They seem to grab them here way more often than the first.

Interesting that you mention Chris Perry. He was voted the Bengals representative for each (32) teams' WORST draft bust.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-03-2017, 08:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Just saw this posted about Cook.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-state-seminoles/chopping-block/os-fsu-dalvin-cook-combine-testing-20170303-story.html

Says he blazed a 4.49.  Not that it changes much, just saying that dude is fast for a full bodied RB, that isn't afraid of contact.

Fournette was just .01 behind. 

[CJD]

I think I've come to the decision that I would be okay with Fournette.

I just hope he learns how to read blocks and not just go down Jeremy Hill's path of coasting on rookie success.

[*bengalfan74*]

In my opinion here's the priorities:

1. Offensive Line, has to be fixed. Doubt they draft anything early for O-line.

2a. DE - need a pass rusher
2b. LB - need speed

4. RB - Pretty sure Hill is a bust and Gio ??

I'm not sold on Fournette and I'm not sure they'll take Cook with the baggage at 9 ? I'd say this is a smoke screen and they'll go one of the top defensive guys in the first.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-03-2017, 09:27 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Fournette was just .01 behind. 

True, but from my own observations, Cook seems like more of a dynamic back that Fournette.  Fournette appears to run more upright, exposing his body, while Cook stays lower and runs behind his pads until he is in the clear.  Like I said earlier, I don't particularly want the Bengals to take either at #9.  But given the choice of the two, I'd likely go with Cook.

[Sled21]

I'm good with taking Fournette and going with him, Gio and Burkhead. Get Hill the hill out of here....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2017, 09:37 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: In my opinion here's the priorities:

1. Offensive Line, has to be fixed. Doubt they draft anything early for O-line.

2a. DE - need a pass rusher
2b. LB - need speed

4. RB - Pretty sure Hill is a bust and Gio ??

I'm not sold on Fournette and I'm not sure they'll take Cook with the baggage at 9 ? I'd say this is a smoke screen and they'll go one of the top defensive guys in the first.

You ought to check out my first mock in the mock draft thread and tell me what you think brother.

You just might like it. I think we pretty much need to draft a pass rusher in the first round even though there are
some talented Ends in this draft. If we draft O-line it will probably be between the 2nd and 4th rounds most likely.

FA will be the determining factor. If we were smart we wouldn't let FA affect our draft but it is looking like Zeitler
is as good as gone so we will need a Guard in FA or have to draft one before the 5th round. If Whit leaves we are
in serious trouble and looking at Fisher or the guy who was a big part in our failures playing at Dalton's blindside.

This isn't even talking about our Center who is arguably the worst starter in the league at this position.

Those are some big questions about our RB's and it is not like Gio was lighting the world on fire before the injury
either and i love me some Giovani Bernard. But Rex Burkhead was our best RB last year and he might leave.

(03-03-2017, 09:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: True, but from my own observations, Cook seems like more of a dynamic back that Fournette.  Fournette appears to run more upright, exposing his body, while Cook stays lower and runs behind his pads until he is in the clear.  Like I said earlier, I don't particularly want the Bengals to take either at #9.  But given the choice of the two, I'd likely go with Cook.

There is no question that Dalvin Cook is the more dynamic RB of the two. They just run different.

For his size Fournette hits a hole fast and accelerates faster than any big back. He runs up the middle and reads
his blocks in then out. Gap scheme.

Cook is much more decisive with better vision, he is much more elusive and makes defenders miss and than can
take it the distance. Patience, yet he hits a hole fast. Special is what Cook is in my opinion and would be all for
drafting this guy and would honestly be ecstatic about it. With Fournette i would be fine with it but i would have
a wait and see approach with our coaches.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-03-2017, 09:20 PM)Derrick Wrote: Interesting that you mention Chris Perry. He was voted the Bengals representative for each (32) teams' WORST draft bust.

No way does Chris Perry ever knock Akili Smith off that throne. 46.6% completion, 4.8 YPA, 5 TD/13 INT, 52.8 QB Rating, 19 Fumbles/8 Lost.

Besides, beyond the stats, Akili Smith could have been the Saint's entire draft class, plus two more first round picks, plus one more second round pick. That makes it impossible to ever beat him as the biggest draft bust for the Bengals. Perhaps even the entire league.