Can a QB help an Oline?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-14-2017, 05:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  I don't play that game.  When people start asking questions that have nothing to do with the point I am making I just ignore them.

My point is that it looks silly to claim that using a quick passing game is proof PA is a bad coach while at the same time saying the Patriots, who depend on a quick passing game, have an excellent o-line.

"The grass is green, you say?  Just more proof of how bad Paul Alexander is.  Did you know he has mastered a musical instrument.  He has to suck."

....but it did have something to do with the point of the conversation.  Brady consistently had 5 plus seconds to scan the field, in fact, up to 10 seconds on the play I mentioned.  So, I take that as a no.....you didn't watch the AFCCG.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-14-2017, 05:11 PM)eoxyod Wrote: You're right. In 2015 it wasn't a problem. In 2016 it came back though. It's almost as though we lost a coach with a long history of positive development of players and an awesome offensive scheme, who the team was too afraid to let take the reins of the HC spot. (That sarcastic comment isn't meant for you, just towards the team)

Dalton did great in 2015 because our scheme allowed for it, but there were still instances (too many) where he doesn't shuffle and reset, and will scramble to the right or left which is often not a great idea because you are cutting down on half the field

I thought he did well in the first part of the season, but as the pressure kept coming, he regressed.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2017, 10:09 AM)Wyche Wrote: ....but it did have something to do with the point of the conversation.  Brady consistently had 5 plus seconds to scan the field, in fact, up to 10 seconds on the play I mentioned.  So, I take that as a no.....you didn't watch the AFCCG.

What does oner game have to do with the fact that Brady has a quicker average release than Dalton?  Why can't you stay on topic?  How is depending on a quick passing game proof of a bad O-line when teams with good O-lines also depend on quick passing games.

"Tom Brady releases the ball in an average of less than three seconds, but I saw him get good protection on a few plays in one game so that means no other data counts.  And anyone who saw those few plays also realizes that the other data does not exist."

[McC]

(03-13-2017, 09:51 PM)eoxyod Wrote: #Wellactually Dalton usually makes the OL look worse than it is. Dalton still has issues with pressure and is generally poor at stepping up in the pocket, or making adjustments in footwork. He scrambles too quickly usually which is never good. He does have a quick release due to our offense which is good, but on long dropbacks he is usually at his worst

So, he should step up in the pocket, thereby stepping closer to the rush coming straight up the gut?  Is that what you're saying?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-15-2017, 10:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What does oner game have to do with the fact that Brady has a quicker average release than Dalton?  Why can't you stay on topic?  How is depending on a quick passing game proof of a bad O-line when teams with good O-lines also depend on quick passing games.

"Tom Brady releases the ball in an average of less than three seconds, but I saw him get good protection on a few plays in one game so that means no other data counts.  And anyone who saw those few plays also realizes that the other data does not exist."

I just used that game as an example, but I witnessed it multiple times throughout the season, and all through the playoffs.  The Patriots most likely utilize the quick attack because it plays well to Brady's strengths....moderate arm and a film buff that can make quick reads and decisions.  When Brady is pressured consistently, he tends to struggle.  How often do you see him struggle?  How often did we see Dalton struggle with pressure?

Some people just read stats, others actually watch the games.

[eoxyod]

(03-15-2017, 10:54 AM)McC Wrote: So, he should step up in the pocket, thereby stepping closer to the rush coming straight up the gut?  Is that what you're saying?

Stepping up =/= going straight forward
It's readjusting your feet and positioning within the pocket to maximize your ability to make a strong passing play in there

[Shake n Blake]

(03-15-2017, 12:36 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Stepping up =/= going straight forward
It's readjusting your feet and positioning within the pocket to maximize your ability to make a strong passing play in there

Not trying to argue at all, I just don't think there was much of a "pocket" last year. Things blew up a lot, and when they did, pressure was usually coming from the middle. When there is pressure up the middle, I can see why Dalton would roll right. You'd have 2 choices at that point...take the sack or roll out. If a DT blows up Bodine or he whiffs on a stunt, there isn't going to be a pocket to maneuver around in.

I still think Dalton handled normal pressure well last year. He did adjust and set his feet, etc. Maybe not quite as well as 2015...but not many QBs are going to handle 41 sacks in stride.

I agree on Hue though. He should be our HC and I think he had a real chemistry with Dalton. He was a very demanding coach, and we need that. Fwiw, I recently read an article that had an interview with Andre Smith after he signed in Minnesota. He claimed that he chose Minny because he wanted "to be pushed" to be the best player he could be. Obviously made it seem like Marvin Lewis isn't a good motivator.

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-15-2017, 12:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Not trying to argue at all, I just don't think there was much of a "pocket" last year. Things blew up a lot, and when they did, pressure was usually coming from the middle. When there is pressure up the middle, I can see why Dalton would roll right. You'd have 2 choices at that point...take the sack or roll out. If a DT blows up Bodine or he whiffs on a stunt, there isn't going to be a pocket to maneuver around in.

I still think Dalton handled normal pressure well last year. He did adjust and set his feet, etc. Maybe not quite as well as 2015...but not many QBs are going to handle 41 sacks in stride.

I agree on Hue though. He should be our HC and I think he had a real chemistry with Dalton. He was a very demanding coach, and we need that. Fwiw, I recently read an article that had an interview with Andre Smith after he signed in Minnesota. He claimed that he chose Minny because he wanted "to be pushed" to be the best player he could be. Obviously made it seem like Marvin Lewis isn't a good motivator.

Exactly !

In order to manipulate the pocket - step up. The O-line has to actually be holding their blocks. Like you say far to often Andy had instant pressure up the gut with free rushers. It's much harder to "step up" like that.

There was very little opportunity for Dalton to work the pocket last season. Pressure was coming fast and hard from all over !

[OrlandoBengal]

(03-15-2017, 01:43 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly !

In order to manipulate the pocket - step up. The O-line has to actually be holding their blocks. Like you say far to often Andy had instant pressure up the gut with free rushers. It's much harder to "step up" like that.

There was very little opportunity for Dalton to work the pocket last season. Pressure was coming fast and hard from all over !

It's easy for people to say "he should have done this", but they are not the one with pressure constantly coming.  When the center gets blown up and you have pressure in your face, it's next to impossible... the only real option he has is to roll out, most often to his right.