Andre Smith reunion

[BengalChris]

(03-12-2017, 01:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: False.  This is just a message board myth.  Marvin plays rookies/high draft picks/young players as much as the average NFL team does. 

See: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Marvin-Lewis-playing-rookies?highlight=marvin 


 Like every other coach Marvin usually plays vets because they are usually give the team the best chance of winning.

I don't believe it. Here's our 1st round picks from the last 5 years:

1. Kirkpatrick didn't become a fulltime starter until year 4. I don't count his time as a gunner on kicks as playing his position.
2. Zeitler started from day one. Funny how the most consistent one of all these picks was considered the least valuable by Mike Brown.
3. Eifert started contibuting early, full time starter in year 2.
4. Dennard had a start or two due to injuries his second year but still isn't considered a starter and he's entering his 4th year.
5. Ogbuehi had 0 starts his first year and he flopped horribly in year 2 and was benched.
6. Willy Jackson 0 starts his rookie year and could have come off IR, but instead we brought back Peerman who is now a FA.

Please don't blame injuries cause we drafted them. Only 2 of the 6 contributed much of anything at their own position in their rookie years.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2017, 05:38 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't believe it. Here's our 1st round picks from the last 5 years:

1. Kirkpatrick didn't become a fulltime starter until year 4. I don't count his time as a gunner on kicks as playing his position.
2. Zeitler started from day one. Funny how the most consistent one of all these picks was considered the least valuable by Mike Brown.
3. Eifert started contibuting early, full time starter in year 2.
4. Dennard had a start or two due to injuries his second year but still isn't considered a starter and he's entering his 4th year.
5. Ogbuehi had 0 starts his first year and he flopped horribly in year 2 and was benched.
6. Willy Jackson 0 starts his rookie year and could have come off IR, but instead we brought back Peerman who is now a FA.

Please don't blame injuries cause we drafted them. Only 2 of the 6 contributed much of anything at their own position in their rookie years.

I post facts while you post "beliefs".

No one cares what you believe.  Facts are facts.

[BengalChris]

(03-12-2017, 06:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I post facts while you post "beliefs".

No one cares what you believe.  Facts are facts.

Well, let's see.

Did Kirkpatrick start a game year one? Nope
Did Kirkpatrick have any significant contribution his rookie year? Nope
Did Kirkparick become a fulltime starter before his 4th year? Nope
Was Kirkparick primarily used as a gunner year 2 and 3? Yes
Did Zeitler start from day one? yes
Who has the mos starts of the 1st round picked the last 5 years? Zeitler
Did Eifert share time with Gresham his rookie year with Gresham being the starter? Yep
Did Eifert take over as a fulltime at TE in year two? Yep

So far my beliefs appear to be pretty f'n factual, 100% in fact.

Did Dennard start his rookie year? Nope
Did Dennard get a couple of starts late in his 2nd year only to have a shoulder injury that IRed him for the remaining few games of that year? Yep
Has Dennard becoem a fulltime starter? Nope, the boy still ain't a starter. He is likely going to be the slot or nickle corner this year which, if he stays healthy, will make this his most productive year.

Damn, four out of four. I'm on a roll.

Did Oggieboggie boy start as a rookie? Nope
Did Oggieboggie boy lose his 2nd year starter status in 2016 because he wasn't getting the job done? Yep
Did Oggieboggie boy end his 2nd year as a backup or starter or was he off the 53 man roster? He was off the 53 man roster injured.

F---, if my beliefs become anymore factual I might actually have been right. Shit.

Did Willie Jackson have any playing time at all, even for a single snap in 2016? Nope
Was Willie Jackson available to come off IR and was a ready to do in  2016? Yep
Did we leave him there anyways? Yep

I was 100%, only two of our last six first rounds picks had any significant contribution or playing time in their rookie years.

Now that's for 1st round picks who really should be starting year one, if not certainly by year two. Otherwise why the F draft them if you aren't going get maximum benefit out of them?

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2017, 07:00 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Did Eifert share time with Gresham his rookie year with Gresham being the starter? Yep

No.  We used a lot of two TE sets.  eifert started 15 games his rookie season.

What is really socking is that you can not see the fact that Marvin plays rookies/high draft picks/young players just as much as the average NFL team.

You can squeal all you want about 4 picks in the last 6 years, but you don't mention what every other team in the leagyue has done or What Marvin has done in the rest of his career other than 4 of the last 6 years.

Go look at the numbers.  They are in the thread in the link.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-12-2017, 07:00 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, let's see.

Did Kirkpatrick start a game year one? Nope
Did Kirkpatrick have any significant contribution his rookie year? Nope
Did Kirkparick become a fulltime starter before his 4th year? Nope
Was Kirkparick primarily used as a gunner year 2 and 3? Yes
Did Zeitler start from day one? yes
Who has the mos starts of the 1st round picked the last 5 years? Zeitler
Did Eifert share time with Gresham his rookie year with Gresham being the starter? Yep
Did Eifert take over as a fulltime at TE in year two? Yep

So far my beliefs appear to be pretty f'n factual, 100% in fact.

Did Dennard start his rookie year? Nope
Did Dennard get a couple of starts late in his 2nd year only to have a shoulder injury that IRed him for the remaining few games of that year? Yep
Has Dennard becoem a fulltime starter? Nope, the boy still ain't a starter. He is likely going to be the slot or nickle corner this year which, if he stays healthy, will make this his most productive year.

Damn, four out of four. I'm on a roll.

Did Oggieboggie boy start as a rookie? Nope
Did Oggieboggie boy lose his 2nd year starter status in 2016 because he wasn't getting the job done? Yep
Did Oggieboggie boy end his 2nd year as a backup or starter or was he off the 53 man roster? He was off the 53 man roster injured.

F---, if my beliefs become anymore factual I might actually have been right. Shit.

Did Willie Jackson have any playing time at all, even for a single snap in 2016? Nope
Was Willie Jackson available to come off IR and was a ready to do in  2016? Yep
Did we leave him there anyways? Yep

I was 100%, only two of our last six first rounds picks had any significant contribution or playing time in their rookie years.

Now that's for 1st round picks who really should be starting year one, if not certainly by year two. Otherwise why the F draft them if you aren't going get maximum benefit out of them?

First, we drafted him injuried.. and knew he would probably hardly play at all... 
Second year.. hurt misses almost all of the preseason.... and then struggled...

So to act like he has had two years of play is not factual... since we knew his first year was pretty much done.. you can;t predict injuries.. im not sold at all that Cedric is a bust.. not enough time plus we put him at a position of weakness at RT... 

He now knows he is the starter... so lets hope he can stay healthy and get the reps he needs at LT to improve....

[Housh]

(03-12-2017, 08:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  We used a lot of two TE sets.  eifert started 15 games his rookie season.

What is really socking is that you can not see the fact that Marvin plays rookies/high draft picks/young players just as much as the average NFL team.

You can squeal all you want about 4 picks in the last 6 years, but you don't mention what every other team in the leagyue has done or What Marvin has done in the rest of his career other than 4 of the last 6 years.

Go look at the numbers.  They are in the thread in the link.

Then again the question has to be asked


Should a team that values the draft as much as we do and builds through the draft RELIGIOUSLY and participates in free agency as conservatively as we do, be at LEAGUE AVERAGE of playing rookies/young players?

With how hard we go in the draft we should be getting more young guys snaps. I think that's where he WANTS to go with his argument but you kinda irritated him so he isn't letting it come out that way.



Bengals play youth at NFL average and that's a fact. But with how hard we claim to value the draft it is very ODD that we aren't one of the teams that play more youth more often. Numerous times this has hurt us. I mean it takes some guys 3 plus years to finally start here even though their counterpart's play is declining.

[BengalChris]

(03-12-2017, 09:01 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First, we drafted him injuried.. and knew he would probably hardly play at all... 
Second year.. hurt misses almost all of the preseason.... and then struggled...

So to act like he has had two years of play is not factual... since we knew his first year was pretty much done.. you can;t predict injuries.. im not sold at all that Cedric is a bust.. not enough time plus we put him at a position of weakness at RT... 

He now knows he is the starter... so lets hope he can stay healthy and get the reps he needs at LT to improve....

You can predict injuries when you draft the guy injured. The team was 100% certain he was injured, which is my point.

[spazz70]

(03-12-2017, 01:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Here he is in the Texans game:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000763339/Andy-Dalton-sacked-by-Whitney-Mercilus-for-a-loss-of-8-yards

And you know what I saw on that play?  Bodine and Boling getting driven straight back into the pocket...CedO drove his man back and out of the play if Dalton has a pocket to step up in to.  Thanks for sharing, I guess I forgot he played some at LT but this play is definitely not all on him...

[Housh]

All ima say in regards to Andre Smith is


Hes not trash


we need lineman

we have cap space to spend


Hes familiar with our team and would fit right in

He was decent In his years here and is still young enough that age isn't a concern




Maybe he returns to form here

[Nati#1]

I'm in panic mode..Andre is twice the player Obughei is..That guy stinks.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-12-2017, 09:38 PM)BengalChris Wrote: You can predict injuries when you draft the guy injured. The team was 100% certain he was injured, which is my point.

but point is, he was drafted not to play his first year... to was drafted to play second year which he did but struggled but missed most of preseason with injury but was healthy most of his 2nd year.. he has little experience so far and most at a position he was not comfortable with... he could be a bust but I still believe way to early with lack of playing time and position move at first to RT to place a final judgement ... 

[WeezyBengal]

(03-11-2017, 12:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how Big Dre was oneof the favorite whipping boys of the haters around here for years.  Even after he started playing very well it took a lot of people around here a long time to get it.  I defended him a lot back then.

Now soem people want him to come back even though his level of play was dropping here and apparently sucked last year with the Vikings.  But now I'm not sure I want him back.

But I will trust our coaching staff on this one.  They should know better than anyone what his problems are. After his first two years doing not much of anything he was a very good player from '11 through '13.  Then he missed the '14 preseason with a concussion and near the end of the regular season had a torn tricep.  Then in 2015 he reported to camp thinner and claiming to be in great shape, but he did not seem to play as well as before and he suffered another concussion that year.  His play last year was supposedly horrid, but he was injured very early in the season.

But he just turned 30 in January.  If he is healthy and PA thinks he can help I would be willing to give it a try.  Its not like we have much to lose right now.

Good for you, man. Good for you. 

[WeezyBengal]

This is a classic Bengals move. Bring back more of the same.

Bring back a guy you previously broke up with and a guy that you are familiar with. Bring back an injury prone guy who's skills are declining with his age.

Play the damn guys you drafted and move on. Either they pan out or you have egg on your face.

[Bengalholic]

Reliable source tells me OT Andre Smith is in "the house" aka Paul Brown Stadium. #Bengals @WLWT

— Elise Jesse (@Elise_JesseWLWT) March 14, 2017

[McC]

(03-12-2017, 09:17 PM)Housh Wrote: Then again the question has to be asked


Should a team that values the draft as much as we do and builds through the draft RELIGIOUSLY and participates in free agency as conservatively as we do, be at LEAGUE AVERAGE of playing rookies/young players?

With how hard we go in the draft we should be getting more young guys snaps. I think that's where he WANTS to go with his argument but you kinda irritated him so he isn't letting it come out that way.



Bengals play youth at NFL average and that's a fact. But with how hard we claim to value the draft it is very ODD that we aren't one of the teams that play more youth more often. Numerous times this has hurt us. I mean it takes some guys 3 plus years to finally start here even though their counterpart's play is declining.

Also, Marvin's numbers in this area are bumped up by the fact that Andy and AJ started day one and so did Joseph and Leon.

Hell, Burfict didn't even get on the field until an injury forced him to.

[Housh]

(03-14-2017, 06:30 PM)McC Wrote: Also, Marvin's numbers in this area are bumped up by the fact that Andy and AJ started day one and so did Joseph and Leon.

Hell, Burfict didn't even get on the field until an injury forced him to.

Geno didn't start year one either

Nor did Carlos Dunlap

[Bengal Dude]

(03-14-2017, 06:30 PM)McC Wrote: Also, Marvin's numbers in this area are bumped up by the fact that Andy and AJ started day one and so did Joseph and Leon.

Hell, Burfict didn't even get on the field until an injury forced him to.

Joseph and Leon also got their starts due to injuries.

[Quantum Bengal]

(03-11-2017, 12:03 PM)Trademark Wrote: I wouldn't mind it, our line seemed to fall apart after he left. I'm just going to miss big Whit

I agree, and Smith can be a great guard!