Time to trust "The Process"

[muskiesfan]

I've just always wondered if Alexander the Great is so awesome that some of us just "ignore facts", why can't he coach up the run blocking for a run first team? He hand selects his players, guest speaks, is highly regarded by the football world, and has never failed on a 1st or 2nd round pick, but he can't coach our lineman how to run block. The facts are that once in the last how long we finished above 20th in yards per carry. I just don't understand how that makes one the OLine whisperer.

Before anyone gets their feelings too hurt, I have said several times that our pass pro is generally above average. We just can't seem to teach our illustrious coach's hand selected players on how to properly run block.

[zygrot24]

(03-13-2017, 01:38 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I mean sure...unless you count the 10 games he started for the Ravens that season...you know just a season where they went 11-5 while the Bengals after bungling the line moves went 4-11-1. 

On May 13, 2009, the Ravens placed him on the reserved-retired list. The Ravens asked Anderson to reconsider his retirement, but he stated that "wanting to spend more time with his son as a reason not to."



But yeah, lots of playoff bound teams ask washed up cripples who have been starting to reconsider retirement......


Just stop talking now Fred, you are getting worse than Hobsin with the bs.

Couldnt agree more . The FO might want to give Fred a job for the skin jobs he pulls on this board

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2017, 06:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It's still really really easy to judge Marv.

Horrible vs Steelers record.
Horrible prime time record.
0-7 Postseason record.
One of the worst game managers around.

"Halftime adjustments are just journalistic jargon."

All true. Marv has lots of problems.

(03-12-2017, 07:24 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Absolutely! You think Marvin wanted to keep the Piano Man around in 2003?  I promise you he was allowed to bring in his coordinators but not his position coaches.  Paul Alexander and Jim Anderson weren't going anywhere.

Hopefully PA retires like ole Jim did.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-13-2017, 12:56 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I've just always wondered if Alexander the Great is so awesome that some of us just "ignore facts", why can't he coach up the run blocking for a run first team? He hand selects his players, guest speaks, is highly regarded by the football world, and has never failed on a 1st or 2nd round pick, but he can't coach our lineman how to run block. The facts are that once in the last how long we finished above 20th in yards per carry. I just don't understand how that makes one the OLine whisperer.

Before anyone gets their feelings too hurt, I have said several times that our pass pro is generally above average. We just can't seem to teach our illustrious coach's hand selected players on how to properly run block.

I don't understand it either. Offensive Lineman love to run block more than anything.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2017, 08:54 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I trust them to make the worst decision possible.  How's that for trust?

Sad but so true Bonnie.

Gotta try and stay positive though.

Conner Barwin, Andre and Mangold would be nice...

[Shake n Blake]

Lol I checked Barwin's rotoworld page and saw this:

"Free agent DE Connor Barwin will visit the Bengals on Monday.
Despite sitting on the 11th-most cap space in football, the penny-pinching Bengals let their two best offensive linemen walk in free agency. Barwin probably shouldn't be expecting a big contract offer. With that said, Barwin's edge-defending ability would be very much welcomed in Cincinnati, where RE Michael Johnson is completely washed. Barwin played his college ball for the Bearcats. Mar 12 - 10:22 PM"

Haters.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-13-2017, 07:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Lol I checked Barwin's rotoworld page and saw this:

"Free agent DE Connor Barwin will visit the Bengals on Monday.
Despite sitting on the 11th-most cap space in football, the penny-pinching Bengals let their two best offensive linemen walk in free agency. Barwin probably shouldn't be expecting a big contract offer. With that said, Barwin's edge-defending ability would be very much welcomed in Cincinnati, where RE Michael Johnson is completely washed. Barwin played his college ball for the Bearcats. Mar 12 - 10:22 PM"

Haters.

Fred is gonna give them a bad Yelp review or a sternly worded letter.

[Murdock2420]

(03-13-2017, 07:43 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Fred is gonna give them a bad Yelp review or a sternly worded letter.

 

Dear Rotoworld,

       You have to trust the system. This biased opinion and calling the Bengals penny-pinchers is completely unfair and based in no way on true facts. They have to keep that cap space to roll over to sign the important upcoming Free Agents in the future classes of the 2032 draft. By that time, the salaries will be completely out of control and Mike Brown's brilliant process will allow him to sign a veteran back-up player to a team friendly deal while allowing former first round talents to go to other teams and weigh down and completely destroy their cap situations.

[Joelist]

Just look at Piano Man's record on the all important interior line and it is laughable. He specifically demanded Bodine - the worst Center in football. Lest we forget he also personally picked Ghiacuc, who also was the worst Center in football. Then there was "Nasty Nate" Livings who was a horrible blocker. The only reason it didn't look even worse was Bobbie Williams came in via Free Agency and already coached up. Then there is the line being publicly called out for poor technique on different occasions by both Munoz and Joe Walter.

Go figure...

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2017, 10:41 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: "The Process" had a multi year All Pro on the bench behind Livings because he either didn't recognize the talent or couldn't coach the talent.

Total and complete lie.

Mathis was journeyman who had been released by two teams before he joined the Bengals.  In '09 PA coached him up to the point that he was playing very well.  In fact he was playing so well that Mathis STARTED AHEAD OF LIVINGS in weeks 4-9 until Mathis got injured and Livings was given the starting position back.

In 2010 Mathis was fat and out of shapo so bad that he ndid not deserve to play.  that is why he had to settle for a league minimum contract to be a back up with the Eagles.  it is one thing for you to go on about how you are smater than a bunch of NFL teams who paid former bengal O-linemen big money, but it gets silly when you claim that you are smarter than EVERY SINGLE GM in the entire league becuas e none of them were willing to pay tha amazing mulit-year All Pro Evan Mathis anything in free agency based on how he played in 2020.

You can't just make things up out of thin air and act like they are the truth.

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2017, 01:16 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If the Bengals thought so highly of Andrews, why didn't they keep him?

They tried, but Willie refused to take a pay cut for the Bengals.  

However he signed for a greatly reduced price with the Ravens.

If willie was so great why did the Ravens pay him about a third of what he was due under the Bengals contract?

Willie Anderson showed up for the '08 training camp unable to play.  he actually had somesort of surgical procedure done during traiing camp.  It was doubtful if he w9uld be able to play effectively ever again, let alone by the start of the season.  the bengals did what every other team does in this situation.  They offered him a chance to come back at a reduced rate or else they release him.  Then he signed for a lot less with the Ravens. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 08:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Total and complete lie.

Mathis was journeyman who had been released by two teams before he joined the Bengals.  In '09 PA coached him up to the point that he was playing very well.  In fact he was playing so well that Mathis STARTED AHEAD OF LIVINGS in weeks 4-9 until Mathis got injured and Livings was given the starting position back.

In 2010 Mathis was fat and out of shapo so bad that he ndid not deserve to play.  that is why he had to settle for a league minimum contract to be a back up with the Eagles.  it is one thing for you to go on about how you are smater than a bunch of NFL teams who paid former bengal O-linemen big money, but it gets silly when you claim that you are smarter than EVERY SINGLE GM in the entire league becuas e none of them were willing to pay tha amazing mulit-year All Pro Evan Mathis anything in free agency based on how he played in 2020.

You can't just make things up out of thin air and act like they are the truth.

I can't make things up out of thin air and pretend like they are fact like your total and complete lie I claimed I am smarter than EVERY SINGLE GM in the league?

So Mathis came and left the Bengals as a journeyman back? And became a multi year All Pro? Watch this, I can use all caps, too. THAT'S WHAT GOOD COACHES DO, COUNSELOR!!!!!!1!

I can use bold, also. When someone is given something "back" that means they had it first.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Then Howard Mudd......an actual keynote speaker at C.O.O.L. .......got his hands on Mathis......the REST.....of the stor-y.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 08:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: They tried, but Willie refused to take a pay cut for the Bengals.  

However he signed for a greatly reduced price with the Ravens.

If willie was so great why did the Ravens pay him about a third of what he was due under the Bengals contract?

Willie Anderson showed up for the '08 training camp unable to play.  he actually had somesort of surgical procedure done during traiing camp.  It was doubtful if he w9uld be able to play effectively ever again, let alone by the start of the season.  the bengals did what every other team does in this situation.  They offered him a chance to come back at a reduced rate or else they release him.  Then he signed for a lot less with the Ravens. 

Total and complete lie.

Andrews played for the Bengals under the franchise tag in 2008. Willie was released before the 2008 season. Meaning Willie wasn't even on the god damn team while Bengals could negotiate a long term deal with Andrews.

You don't know Willie Anderson's diagnosis or the medical procedure which means you sure as shit don't know his prognosis. You're just parroting the bullshit Hobson regurgitates for the team. The same team that claimed Braham's tibial plateau fracture was a "bone bruise."

Fred, you just can't make up lies out of thin air and pretend they're facts. LOL

[Shake n Blake]

(03-14-2017, 08:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: They tried, but Willie refused to take a pay cut for the Bengals.  

However he signed for a greatly reduced price with the Ravens.

If willie was so great why did the Ravens pay him about a third of what he was due under the Bengals contract?

Willie Anderson showed up for the '08 training camp unable to play.  he actually had somesort of surgical procedure done during traiing camp.  It was doubtful if he w9uld be able to play effectively ever again, let alone by the start of the season.  the bengals did what every other team does in this situation.  They offered him a chance to come back at a reduced rate or else they release him.  Then he signed for a lot less with the Ravens. 

Willie's salary for his last year was $3.15 million. He signed a 3 year, $11 million contract with the Ravens. Average salary of 3.67 million. So by "greatly reduced price", did you actually mean "pay raise"?

Willie received interest from the Ravens, Chargers, Bears, Rams, Bucs and Giants according to Rotoworld. 20% of the league was interested...and this is right before the season. Those teams wouldn't have been interested if they thought Willie was washed up. You are greatly exaggerating the seriousness of any injury or surgery that Willie had. I remember Willie playing that preseason, and Rotoworld mentions nothing of any surgery. He wound up starting 11 games (beginning in week 3...he had to get up to speed) for the Ravens. They even tried to convince him not to retire, wanting him back in 2009 at 34 years old.

Look...I understand that Andrews was viewed back then as having potential, but it's clear looking back that the Bengals made the wrong call there. They franchise tagged Andrews and that surely played a role in Willie's release. The line was terrible that year, and this - along with sticking with Ghiaciuc at Center, was among the biggest mistakes.

[jj22]

Willie had to leave for post season success. That's all that needs to be said about this failure of an organization.

He's got the last laugh as far as I'm concerned. This team is still looking for a playoff win (or at least avoid a playoff disgrace).

[Fan_in_Kettering]

"The Process" worked exceedingly well from 1968-1991. Then Paul Brown died along with his proven strategy to produce a winner.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 09:53 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Willie's salary for his last year was $3.15 million. He signed a 3 year, $11 million contract with the Ravens. Average salary of 3.67 million. So by "greatly reduced price", did you actually mean "pay raise"?

Willie received interest from the Ravens, Chargers, Bears, Rams, Bucs and Giants according to Rotoworld. 20% of the league was interested...and this is right before the season. Those teams wouldn't have been interested if they thought Willie was washed up. You are greatly exaggerating the seriousness of any injury or surgery that Willie had. I remember Willie playing that preseason, and Rotoworld mentions nothing of any surgery. He wound up starting 11 games (beginning in week 3...he had to get up to speed) for the Ravens. They even tried to convince him not to retire, wanting him back in 2009 at 34 years old.

Look...I understand that Andrews was viewed back then as having potential, but it's clear looking back that the Bengals made the wrong call there. They franchise tagged Andrews and that surely played a role in Willie's release. The line was terrible that year, and this - along with sticking with Ghiaciuc at Center, was among the biggest mistakes.

Before Fred starts, Willie had a vague foot or ankle issue going into 2008. The fact I can't tell you if it was a foot or ankle issue indicates how vague they were about it. Willie had a procedure, but they never revealed what that procedure was. Without knowing that information, any speculation on "crippled" Willie's prognosis is nothing more than guesswork by a layman completely unqualified to speculate. Clearly, it wasnt as severe as Hobson or Fred is trying to convince everyone it was on behalf of the front office.

What can't be disputed is Andrews was making significantly more than Willie due to the franchise tag. A franchise tag they never should have used on a player that was never anything more than a track and field athlete with unrealized potential the Process couldn't tap.

[Deanlj69]

I'm sorry but this is nothing more than a troll thread. Football players and the coaches in a lot of ways are comparable to managing a large department. You can have a great manager who develops great employees which breeds a very successful department and if that manager leaves the department it doesn't immediately become unsuccessful overnight those employees were taught the right way and the previous manager knew talent and hired that talent and created a culture to foster and tsp into their abilities

In football it's the same thing. I see people say Paul Alexander is a great coach trust the process if great players are drafted despite subpar coaching players can develop on their own due to their own hard work but as in business with a great manager a great coach will take a player who has natural traits and build them up and that's where were lacking. Don't tell me the process and trusting it. Players can't succeed despite subpar or bad coaching if they have the right work ethic.

I feel Paul Guenther falls in the same category, with him it's strictly my opinion and only time will tell but who has he truly developed or coached up beyond expectations? Who has Alexander done the same with? I know with Alexander we can point to numerous prospects Who never developed. Now I know that can happen to anyone but his track record does not seem to be the greatest

Regardless I feel this whole thread which I tried to stay out of was nothing more than Clickbait and trolling

[fredtoast]

(03-13-2017, 07:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Lol I checked Barwin's rotoworld page and saw this:

"Free agent DE Connor Barwin will visit the Bengals on Monday.
Despite sitting on the 11th-most cap space in football, the penny-pinching Bengals let their two best offensive linemen walk in free agency. Barwin probably shouldn't be expecting a big contract offer. With that said, Barwin's edge-defending ability would be very much welcomed in Cincinnati, where RE Michael Johnson is completely washed. Barwin played his college ball for the Bearcats. Mar 12 - 10:22 PM"

Haters.

1.  Silly to call Bengals "penny pinchers" when they have spent over the league cap the last two years.

2.  Pretty stupid to call Michael johnson "completely washed" when he was a top 30 DE in production last year.