Time to trust "The Process"

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 11:05 AM)Deanlj69 Wrote: I'm sorry but this is nothing more than a troll thread.  Football players and the coaches in a lot of ways are comparable to managing a large department.  You can have a great manager who develops great employees which breeds a very successful department and if that manager leaves the department it doesn't immediately become unsuccessful overnight those employees were taught the right way and the previous manager knew talent  and hired that talent and created a culture to foster and tsp into their abilities

In football it's the same thing.  I see people say Paul Alexander is a great coach trust the process if great players are drafted  despite subpar coaching players can develop on their own due to their own hard work but as in business with a great manager a great coach will take a player who has natural traits and build them up and that's where were lacking.  Don't tell me the process and trusting it.  Players can't succeed despite subpar or bad coaching if they have the right work ethic.

I feel Paul Guenther falls in the same category, with him it's strictly my opinion and only time will tell but who has he truly developed or coached up beyond expectations?  Who has Alexander done the same with? I know with Alexander we can point to numerous prospects  Who never developed.  Now I know that can happen to anyone but his track record does not seem to be the greatest

Regardless I feel this whole thread which I tried to stay out of was nothing more than Clickbait and trolling

So basically every player who suceeds gets all the credit himself and every player who fails the blame goes to the coach.

Make an assumption based on nothing but your own beliefs then dismiss any evidence that shows you are wrong.

"If a player sucks it is the fault of the bad Benglas coaches, but if a player is good the coach gets no credit because it is all about the player."

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 01:36 AM)Joelist Wrote: Just look at Piano Man's record on the all important interior line and it is laughable.

Mike Goff..third round pick...started 154 career NFL games

Rich Braham...cut by the Cardinals...signed off the street by the Benglas and turned into a high quality center.

Bobbie Williams...low tier free agent (only 12 starts in 3 seasons) turned into high quality starter

Eric Steinbach...2nd round pick...free agent contract made hiim second highest paid OG in the league at the time

Kyle Cook...undrafted free agent developed into high quality starter.  Only allowed 4 sacks in first three years as starter.  Considered a Pro Bowl level player by Pat Kirwan and other experts.

Clint Boling...4th round pick developed into high quality starter.

Eric Zeitler...Developed into one of better OGs in the league.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 11:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Silly to call Bengals "penny pinchers" when they have spent over the league cap the last two years.

2.  Pretty stupid to call Michael johnson "completely washed" when he was a top 30 DE in production last year.

1) You can spend over the salary cap when your adjusted salary cap is in excess of the salary cap. They still rolled over money meaning they underspent their adjusted salary cap.

2) You would hope your starting RE ranked in the top 32 because there are 32 starting REs in the league. Finishing 30th isn't really something to circle the wagons about, Fred. But, knock yourself out.

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 09:19 AM)Wyche Wrote: Then Howard Mudd......an actual keynote speaker at C.O.O.L. .......got his hands on Mathis......the REST.....of the stor-y.

So now you are claiming that Mathis was noit any good under Paul?

the way you keep trying to spin thius story I can't even keep track of what you are trying to say.

The reason Mathis flopped under PA in 2010 is because he was fat and out of shape.  Even he admitted this.  he posted a video of himself getting in shape BEFORE HE EVER SIGNED WITH THE EAGLES.  Mudd had nothing to do with his improved play.

BTW what kind of contract did Stacy Andrews get after working under Mudd for a couple of years with the Eagles?

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 11:30 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: 2) You would hope your starting RE ranked in the top 32 because there are 32 starting REs in the league. Finishing 30th isn't really something to circle the wagons about, Fred. But, knock yourself out.

Not writing home aboiut anything.

But if ranking in the top 30 means "totally washed" then why doesn't every team in the league have a few guys more productive than MJ?  Aren't there 64 starting DEs in the league?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-14-2017, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So now you are claiming that Mathis was noit any good under Paul?

the way you keep trying to spin thius story I can't even keep track of what you are trying to say.

The reason Mathis flopped under PA in 2010 is because he was fat and out of shape.  Even he admitted this.  he posted a video of himself getting in shape BEFORE HE EVER SIGNED WITH THE EAGLES.  Mudd had nothing to do with his improved play.

BTW what kind of contract did Stacy Andrews get after working under Mudd for a couple of years with the Eagles?

Your man crush is kinda creepy......yelling at people and shit..... :paul:

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So now you are claiming that Mathis was noit any good under Paul?

the way you keep trying to spin thius story I can't even keep track of what you are trying to say.

The reason Mathis flopped under PA in 2010 is because he was fat and out of shape.  Even he admitted this.  he posted a video of himself getting in shape BEFORE HE EVER SIGNED WITH THE EAGLES.  Mudd had nothing to do with his improved play.

BTW what kind of contract did Stacy Andrews get after working under Mudd for a couple of years with the Eagles?

So the "Process" didn't do anything with Mathis when he was in shape.  And Mathis was never as fat or out of shape as Andre Smith or as fat as Nate Livings.  Whether Livings was in better shape than Mathis or vice versa is up for debate.  But, I watched Livings fall flat on his ass in the endzone blocking nothing but air.  Nasty.

The Eagles signed Andrews to play RG, not RT.  He was a failure.  The Eagles quickly realized their mistake and traded him after one season (to the Seahawks who cut him after one season) unlike the Process and the Bengals' front office who franchise tagged him to play RT.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 11:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not writing home aboiut anything.

But if ranking in the top 30 means "totally washed" then why doesn't every team in the league have a few guys more productive than MJ?  Aren't there 64 starting DEs in the league?

Yeah, there are 64 starting DEs in the league: 32 REs and 32 LEs.  You're RE should be more productive than your LE.  Thus, I would hope my starting RE is in the top 32 and a rating of 30/32  or 30/64 is a pretty poor rating.

At best, it is average.

[Sabretooth]

(03-14-2017, 11:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not writing home aboiut anything.

But if ranking in the top 30 means "totally washed" then why doesn't every team in the league have a few guys more productive than MJ?  Aren't there 64 starting DEs in the league?

To be fair fred, oncemore Specified Right ends.
Results often determine if the process is valid.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-14-2017, 11:01 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Before Fred starts, Willie had a vague foot or ankle issue going into 2008. The fact I can't tell you if it was a foot or ankle issue indicates how vague they were about it. Willie had a procedure, but they never revealed what that procedure was. Without knowing that information, any speculation on "crippled" Willie's prognosis is nothing more than guesswork by a layman completely unqualified to speculate. Clearly, it wasnt as severe as Hobson or Fred is trying to convince everyone it was on behalf of the front office.

What can't be disputed is Andrews was making significantly more than Willie due to the franchise tag. A franchise tag they never should have used on a player that was never anything more than a track and field athlete with unrealized potential the Process couldn't tap.

That's all I was saying. Maybe there was an injury (I guess there was), but it wasn't career threatening like Fred painted it to be. It didn't stop him from playing. It was so big of an injury that it was barely talked about.

Btw...Fred are you going to address posts #76 and #77 or any of the lies you've been caught up in?

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 12:21 PM)Sabretooth Wrote: To be fair fred, oncemore Specified Right ends.

But he never mentioned where MJ ranked just among REs.

He was not making any sort of a logical comparison.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

[jj22]

Fred the front office is being mocked for back to back free agent losses that have taken a once up and coming team and turned it to one of the bottom 5 teams in the league. This when they have the resources to approve. You can't keep defending the process when we see teams with half the cap space making tons of (expensive) moves to better themselves. It's as if you believe those other teams won't have rookies, injuries etc...

It just doesn't make much sense outside to a handful of you guys...

Which team are we "Modeling" ourselves after again? Can you tell me?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-14-2017, 12:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So the "Process" didn't do anything with Mathis when he was in shape.  And Mathis was never as fat or out of shape as Andre Smith or as fat as Nate Livings.  Whether Livings was in better shape than Mathis or vice versa is up for debate.  But, I watched Livings fall flat on his ass in the endzone blocking nothing but air.  Nasty.

The Eagles signed Andrews to play RG, not RT.  He was a failure.  The Eagles quickly realized their mistake and traded him after one season (to the Seahawks who cut him after one season) unlike the Process and the Bengals' front office who franchise tagged him to play RT.

.....and who keep playing Blodine and talking about "witch hunts".

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 12:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The Eagles signed Andrews to play RG, not RT.  He was a failure.  The Eagles quickly realized their mistake and traded him after one season (to the Seahawks who cut him after one season) unlike the Process and the Bengals' front office who franchise tagged him to play RT.

WTF?

Bengals were stupid to pay Stacy $7.5 million to play OT for one year and then get a 3rde round comp draft pick when he left, but the Eagles were smart to pay him $14.7 over two years to play a cheaper position before trading him for a 7th round pick?

This is getting ridiculous.

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 12:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Btw...Fred are you going to address posts #76 and #77 or any of the lies you've been caught up in?

1.  I have not been caucght in a single lie.  If you think I have then post alink.

2.  I have addressed the arguments made in post #76 and #77 before.  the fact that the Bengals have not won a playoff game in 26 years can not be used to make the argument that every player, every coach, and every front officie decision is the worst in the league.  would you accept it as a fact if I tried to argue that the Geno Atkins is the worst DT in the league because the Bengals have not won a playoff game in 26 years?  That argument is what everyone falls back on when I start proving them wrong.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 12:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF?

Bengals were stupid to pay Stacy $7.5 million to play OT for one year and then get a 3rde round comp draft pick when he left, but the Eagles were smart to pay him $14.7 over two years to play a cheaper position before trading him for a 7th round pick?

This is getting ridiculous.

They were both stupid.  The Eagles, however, were smart enough to recognize their mistake after only one season unlike the Process.

What are you talking about, Willis?  This has done gotten ridiculous a long time ago.

PS Near as I can tell, the 3rd round comp was for TJ.

[t3r3e3]

(03-14-2017, 12:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: Fred the front office is being mocked for back to back free agent losses that have taken a once up and coming team and turned it to one of the bottom 5 teams in the league. This when they have the resources to approve. You can't keep defending the process when we see teams with half the cap space making tons of (expensive) moves to better themselves. It's as if you believe those other teams won't have rookies, injuries etc...

It just doesn't make much sense outside to a handful of you guys...

Which team are we "Modeling" ourselves after again? Can you tell me?

Not to steal Fred's warped thunder, but, Near as I can tell, one with no interest in becoming a legitimate favorite to win Playoff games and challenge for a Lombardi. The main goal is to provide a steady wealth generator and jobs for the Brown family.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 12:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  I have not been caucght in a single lie.  If you think I have then post alink.

2.  I have addressed the arguments made in post #76 and #77 before.  the fact that the Bengals have not won a playoff game in 26 years can not be used to make the argument that every player, every coach, and every front officie decision is the worst in the league.  would you accept it as a fact if I tried to argue that the Geno Atkins is the worst DT in the league because the Bengals have not won a playoff game in 26 years?  That argument is what everyone falls back on when I start proving them wrong.

You claimed the Bengals tried to re-sign Andrews because they liked him so much, but couldn't because Willie wouldn't take a pay cut.  Willie wasn't even on the team during Andrews' franchise year while the Bengals could still negotiate an extension with Andrews.  Willie had nothing to do with not re-signing Andrews.

You're either wrong or a liar.  Which is it?

[fredtoast]

(03-14-2017, 01:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:  The Eagles, however, were smart enough to recognize their mistake after only one season unlike the Process.

If the Eagles recognized their mistake after just one years then why did they pay Andrews $14.8 million over TWO seasons.  The Bengals paid him a lot less than that over 5 years