Comp picks dictating FA approach

[coachmcneil71]

(03-14-2017, 05:20 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've talked about this before and it's becoming very frustrating. Over the last few years, the Bengals have been placing greater and greater value on comp picks...to the point where it more or less dictates their activity in free agency.

From Hobson: 

The Bengals want to make sure they get a third-round compensatory pick for Kevin Zeitler’s deal in Cleveland and a compensatory fifth for Andrew Whitworth’s deal in Los Angeles. Now with Peko, Burkhead, and Karlos Dansby already signing or about to sign deals worthy of picks, the Bengals have some room to maneuver on the unrestricted market.

I just read this article as well. Give me an F! Give me a U!....Well, y'all get the rest. They told us they were gonna ride that dead horse named Hill, and they weren't kidding about that one.

I would rather have two rookies or a rookie and a lower tier FA RB than have to sit through another season of Hill.

[BonnieBengal]

(03-14-2017, 05:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The deal is that Free Agents are proven in the NFL. Draft picks are not. As much as they like these comp picks it is gambling
more than if they brought in a FA in his prime like a Calais Campbell or something. We need to start moving a little further into
FA if anything and less into the comp picks.

With you all the way Holic, it is frustrating.

It's all about the money.  Drafted rookies are cheaper under the current CBA.  No rookie is going to break the bank like free agents can.

[bengals67]

(03-14-2017, 06:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Why are Andy Dalton and AJ Green sticking around?

I have been asking this for several months.

Does anyone think Eifert or any of our other good players will want to renew to stay with a third rate organization.

[bengals67]

(03-14-2017, 07:07 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: It's all about the money.  Drafted rookies are cheaper under the current CBA.  No rookie is going to break the bank like free agents can.

I bet we have 7 to 9 rookies on the roster this year and we will be hearing from Hobspin about how great it is that we have youngest roster in league.

Bengals have been a part of my life 50 years and right now I have no idea how anyone could justify the expense borne by the Hamilton County tax payers to build Paul Brown and keep this sorry franchise in Cincinnati.

[bengal kitten uk]

(03-14-2017, 07:07 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: It's all about the money.  Draft picks are cheaper under the current CBA.  

There's more to the money side than just straight up cap hit, too.

Amy Trask (who was in the Raiders Front Office for a long time) has tweeted several times this FA about the importance of cash, and how it affects some teams more than others.

Put simply, the guaranteed portion of a player's contract is put immediately into escrow, meaning the team needs to have that much available cash at the time of signing.  For a team like the Bengals - small market, lower merchandising revenue, lower concessions revenue, lower ticket revenue *and* lacking a rich owner (unlike the Jags) - cashflow can be a hugely important factor in the players they are able to sign.  

This, btw, is the real reason why we tend to carry over so much money each year - it gives the team time to save up the cash they need to make that big contract extension happen.

[yellowxdiscipline]

This method is maddening, we're letting good talent walk all for the sake of a couple picks who may never pan out. Just dumb.

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-14-2017, 07:07 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: It's all about the money.  Drafted rookies are cheaper under the current CBA.  No rookie is going to break the bank like free agents can.

You beat me to it Bonnie

Yes, it's 1000% about the money. 4th and 5th round draft picks cost very little, UFA's do ! Moreover, it's a guess but I'd bet that's the reason A. Jones is still on the team. I mean I'd say at some point on the calendar he'll be counted against the cap for this season. So Mike "cheap" Brown won't have to spend that money to meet the minimum.  Then they'll cut him, maybe ?

In the end Mike's only true goal, his main focus is lining his pockets. See the rollover money BS !

[Bengalholic]

(03-14-2017, 07:14 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: There's more to the money side than just straight up cap hit, too.

Amy Trask (who was in the Raiders Front Office for a long time) has tweeted several times this FA about the importance of cash, and how it affects some teams more than others.

Put simply, the guaranteed portion of a player's contract is put immediately into escrow, meaning the team needs to have that much available cash at the time of signing.  For a team like the Bengals - small market, lower merchandising revenue, lower concessions revenue, lower ticket revenue *and* lacking a rich owner (unlike the Jags) - cashflow can be a hugely important factor in the players they are able to sign.  

This, btw, is the real reason why we tend to carry over so much money each year - it gives the team time to save up the cash they need to make that big contract extension happen.

The Raiders were also one of the worst run franchises in the entire NFL while Trask was the CEO. They dished out a lot of crazy contracts and spent a lot of money very foolishly. She always forgets to talk about that part of the equation. 

[Joelist]

(03-14-2017, 07:18 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: This method is maddening, we're letting good talent walk all for the sake of a couple picks who may never pan out. Just dumb.

Wait till next year when they make a similar set of excuses for both Eifert and Tez walking. 

[J24]

Its not a bad plan I know people don't want to hear but it really is not. With that being said the execution of the plan has been horrendous.

[TKUHL]

(03-14-2017, 07:18 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: This method is maddening, we're letting good talent walk all for the sake of a couple picks who may never pan out. Just dumb.

Well we don't find out if they pan out or not when they ride the bench for 3 years. Shit this franchise is so damn depressing. I'm not sure I can be apart of this if they give Marvin another extension. I'm afraid that's coming. I'm not even sure I can watch Hill stumble through another season. If they wanna be cheap then just draft a RB every 3-4 years and dump Hill. Unless a team has the next A. Peterson there is no point paying a RB Elite money when their a dime a dozen. For some reason some have their best year the first like Hill. I hope Rex is s sign Hill is done, but its probably just a sign of how much faith Marvin and Brown have in him. Shit shit shit.

[BonnieBengal]

(03-14-2017, 08:47 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Well we don't find out if they pan out or not when they ride the bench for 3 years. Shit this franchise is so damn depressing. I'm not sure I can be apart of this if they give Marvin another extension. I'm afraid that's coming. I'm not even sure I can watch Hill stumble through another season. If they wanna be cheap then just draft a RB every 3-4 years and dump Hill. Unless a team has the next A. Peterson there is no point paying a RB Elite money when their a dime a dozen. For some reason some have their best year the first like Hill. I hope Rex is s sign Hill is done, but its probably just a sign of how much faith Marvin and Brown have in him. Shit shit shit.

Yeah, not only do they favor draft picks, but then they don't play them for the first three years in most cases.  And the other case is Bodine.  Played since his rookie year and is horrible

[Shake n Blake]

(03-14-2017, 05:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Bengals have announced they will be looking at unrestricted Free agents  as a result of the recent departures.

They've always approached FA that way, even before their zany obsession with compensatory picks. Any time they've dabbled in FA, it's usually not to upgrade, but rather replace a departed free agent.

Lavernues Coles = Houshmandzadeh replacement
Antonio Bryant = Coles replacement
TO = Bryant replacement
Nate Clements + Newman = JJo replacements
Antwan Odom = Justin Smith replacement
Manny Lawson = Dhani replacement (Maualuga moved from Sam to Mike)
James Harrison = Lawson replacement
AJ Hawk = Harrison replacement
Keenan Robinson would = AJ Hawk replacement
BJGE = CedBen replacement (Benson was an emergency signing that was oh-so-Bengals...troubled bust)
Brandon LaFell = MLJ replacement
Michael Johnson = Michael Johnson replacement
Andre Smith = Andre Smith replacement
Travelle Wharton = Nate Livings replacement


I mean, that's pretty much every "top" free agent we've signed. This team does not use FA to upgrade. It only sees FA as a Band-Aid to fix a hole...usually with a player that is cheaper than the player that left.

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-14-2017, 09:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They've always approached FA that way, even before their zany obsession with compensatory picks. Any time they've dabbled in FA, it's usually not to upgrade, but rather replace a departed free agent.

Lavernues Coles = Houshmandzadeh replacement
Antonio Bryant = Coles replacement
TO = Bryant replacement
Nate Clements + Newman = JJo replacements
Antwan Odom = Justin Smith replacement
Manny Lawson = Dhani replacement (Maualuga moved from Sam to Mike)
James Harrison = Lawson replacement
AJ Hawk = Harrison replacement
Keenan Robinson would = AJ Hawk replacement
BJGE = CedBen replacement (Benson was an emergency signing that was oh-so-Bengals...troubled bust)
Brandon LaFell = MLJ replacement
Michael Johnson = Michael Johnson replacement
Andre Smith = Andre Smith replacement
Travelle Wharton = Nate Livings replacement


I mean, that's pretty much every "top" free agent we've signed. This team does not use FA to upgrade. It only sees FA as a Band-Aid to fix a hole...usually with a player that is cheaper than the player that left.

Like cincy jungle on not this quote is so very spot on:

The Bengals seemingly enter free agency knowing they'll have a worse roster after it's over. Their main objecting in free agency is to minimize the level of “worseness” that their roster undergoes, hoping they can get back to where they started through their draft picks. This strategy makes it difficult for a team to ever get better. Rather it is a perpetual mechanism of sameness which slowly bleeds the roster dry.

[phil413]

Well then I "reported" this the day before Hobspin: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-2-3-Million-left-in-Cap-Space?pid=357586#pid357586

Truth is, the general plan is something we all can see, though they're historically patient to line up visits, they seemed VERY deliberate this time around to wait for Peko's deal to be announced. I believe it was 200k more annually less than the one UFA (not cut vet) Andre Smith was offered. I wonder if the LB's were offered that same specific deal and no more (as to tear into Whit's comp pick) until they get the figures from Rex's deal. Barwin is the exception, he was released and wouldn't count against comp picks...they're just waiting for the right number. The Bengals didn't do a job of "keeping their own", but we're usually murmuring about back end or scrub players returning. Instead, they're just waiting for some of these guys to leave it seems to then safely move onto the next player. Watch them settle on a LB for just under Rex's deal, then try to sign one. I didn't believe in that 2-3mil number being in stone, but the way they're kicking tires this they're being very deliberate in waiting for someone to leave and signing someone in place just below them instead of bringing in only cut vets. Cutting their losses, signing fringe players and keeping a 3rd for Zeitler and maybe a 4th (not sure I get why it's a 5th) for Whitworth.

[Murdock2420]

(03-14-2017, 07:37 PM)Joelist Wrote: Wait till next year when they make a similar set of excuses for both Eifert and Tez walking. 

If they seriously let Tez walk I will have to accept I am going to jail cause I will be driving my Jeep directly up Mike Brown's ass.

[lostpoet2]

(03-15-2017, 02:27 AM)phil413 Wrote: Well then I "reported" this the day before Hobspin: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-2-3-Million-left-in-Cap-Space?pid=357586#pid357586

Truth is, the general plan is something we all can see, though they're historically patient to line up visits, they seemed VERY deliberate this time around to wait for Peko's deal to be announced. I believe it was 200k more annually less than the one UFA (not cut vet) Andre Smith was offered. I wonder if the LB's were offered that same specific deal and no more (as to tear into Whit's comp pick) until they get the figures from Rex's deal. Barwin is the exception, he was released and wouldn't count against comp picks...they're just waiting for the right number. The Bengals didn't do a job of "keeping their own", but we're usually murmuring about back end or scrub players returning. Instead, they're just waiting for some of these guys to leave it seems to then safely move onto the next player. Watch them settle on a LB for just under Rex's deal, then try to sign one. I didn't believe in that 2-3mil number being in stone, but the way they're kicking tires this they're being very deliberate in waiting for someone to leave and signing someone in place just below them instead of bringing in only cut vets. Cutting their losses, signing fringe players and keeping a 3rd for Zeitler and maybe a 4th (not sure I get why it's a 5th) for Whitworth.

Great observations. I think the best thing to do at this point would be to sign Barwin to a fair (not ultra-cheap) contract, draft the best DE at #9, and at least get the DL back to where they can get to the QB.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-14-2017, 07:14 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: There's more to the money side than just straight up cap hit, too.

Amy Trask (who was in the Raiders Front Office for a long time) has tweeted several times this FA about the importance of cash, and how it affects some teams more than others.

Put simply, the guaranteed portion of a player's contract is put immediately into escrow, meaning the team needs to have that much available cash at the time of signing.  For a team like the Bengals - small market, lower merchandising revenue, lower concessions revenue, lower ticket revenue *and* lacking a rich owner (unlike the Jags) - cashflow can be a hugely important factor in the players they are able to sign.  

This, btw, is the real reason why we tend to carry over so much money each year - it gives the team time to save up the cash they need to make that big contract extension happen.

What do they spend the shared revenue on? They didn't seem to have a problem producing $200 million in cash to buy out the other owners.

[CJD]

It's like they don't even realize the only reason Comp picks exist is so that teams that get ravaged by free agency aren't totally ******. It's like an emergency stash. Good to know its there, but you don't even want to have to touch it.

Imagine if someone said "I was offered a good job, but if I took it I'd have to give up my welfare, so I decided to just stay unemployed."

You know what...I can imagine someone saying that, unfortunately...

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-14-2017, 09:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They've always approached FA that way, even before their zany obsession with compensatory picks. Any time they've dabbled in FA, it's usually not to upgrade, but rather replace a departed free agent.

Lavernues Coles = Houshmandzadeh replacement
Antonio Bryant = Coles replacement
TO = Bryant replacement
Nate Clements + Newman = JJo replacements
Antwan Odom = Justin Smith replacement
Manny Lawson = Dhani replacement (Maualuga moved from Sam to Mike)
James Harrison = Lawson replacement
AJ Hawk = Harrison replacement
Keenan Robinson would = AJ Hawk replacement
BJGE = CedBen replacement (Benson was an emergency signing that was oh-so-Bengals...troubled bust)
Brandon LaFell = MLJ replacement
Michael Johnson = Michael Johnson replacement
Andre Smith = Andre Smith replacement
Travelle Wharton = Nate Livings replacement


I mean, that's pretty much every "top" free agent we've signed. This team does not use FA to upgrade. It only sees FA as a Band-Aid to fix a hole...usually with a player that is cheaper than the player that left.

Yeah, I just got raked over the coals by a certain poster for pointing this out, sans the list of players.