Comp picks dictating FA approach

[Hammerstripes]

(03-14-2017, 07:14 PM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: There's more to the money side than just straight up cap hit, too.

Amy Trask (who was in the Raiders Front Office for a long time) has tweeted several times this FA about the importance of cash, and how it affects some teams more than others.

Put simply, the guaranteed portion of a player's contract is put immediately into escrow, meaning the team needs to have that much available cash at the time of signing.  For a team like the Bengals - small market, lower merchandising revenue, lower concessions revenue, lower ticket revenue *and* lacking a rich owner (unlike the Jags) - cashflow can be a hugely important factor in the players they are able to sign.  

This, btw, is the real reason why we tend to carry over so much money each year - it gives the team time to save up the cash they need to make that big contract extension happen.

Unfortunately I'm not buying this one bit.  How many years in the 90s and early 2000s did the team hoard money.  There's no reason that they don't have a ton in the bank.  Being the tight wad that Mike Brown is, there's no way this team is light on cash.

[muskiesfan]

Mike Brown knows how to use free agency to keep his pockets filled. Either don't sign anyone so they can be replaced with cheaper comp picks or only sign people who will play for peanuts. This bastard is so cheap it's sickening. For a brief moment, I agreed with people who said Brown wants to win but only his way. I don't think winning is anything near what the man cares about. His number 1 priority is money and everything else is a distant second.

It's to the point of ridiculous. There's not a chance for the fan base to win. You keep supporting the piece of shit known as Mike Brown and he continues to screw the team and fans. If you don't support him, it doesn't matter, with the NFL's revenue sharing he's going to continue to make money. No matter what, Mike makes his money and we as fans continue to get the shaft. The only people winning in Cincinnati are the Brown family.

[mhbsavant]

(03-14-2017, 06:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Why are Andy Dalton and AJ Green sticking around?

It wouldn't pain me at all to see them perform somewhere else. I would love to see both of them playing for a professional organization. Imagine how good they'd be!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-14-2017, 07:07 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: It's all about the money.  Drafted rookies are cheaper under the current CBA.  No rookie is going to break the bank like free agents can.

Yeah, it just sucks they don't want to build a great team.

Teams have to venture into FA and grab an upgrade once in awhile if they want to get better.

Just the way it is with the draft being a crap shoot.

MB has plenty of dough, he could do this every year and it wouldn't "break the bank."

[*ochocincos*]

(03-14-2017, 05:20 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've talked about this before and it's becoming very frustrating. Over the last few years, the Bengals have been placing greater and greater value on comp picks...to the point where it more or less dictates their activity in free agency.

From Hobson: 

The Bengals want to make sure they get a third-round compensatory pick for Kevin Zeitler’s deal in Cleveland and a compensatory fifth for Andrew Whitworth’s deal in Los Angeles. Now with Peko, Burkhead, and Karlos Dansby already signing or about to sign deals worthy of picks, the Bengals have some room to maneuver on the unrestricted market.

The fact the Bengals think a pick that comes, at best, 97th overall is somehow better off than getting a good veteran...

[BonnieBengal]

(03-15-2017, 05:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it just sucks they don't want to build a great team.

Teams have to venture into FA and grab an upgrade once in awhile if they want to get better.

Just the way it is with the draft being a crap shoot.

MB has plenty of dough, he could do this every year and it wouldn't "break the bank."

And if he doesn't feel he has plenty of money, he should sell the team.  He could make a big profit and let someone who can afford to run it take over.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-15-2017, 06:30 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: And if he doesn't feel he has plenty of money, he should sell the team.  He could make a big profit and let someone who can afford to run it take over.

Would love that, wish we had a rich fan that could buy the team who would actually care about making the team a Champion.

Some of our fans have great ideas and we invest a lot into the team already.

It would go a long ways for the owner to give a damn.

[BonnieBengal]

(03-15-2017, 06:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Would love that, wish we had a rich fan that could buy the team who would actually care about making the team a Champion.

Some of our fans have great ideas and we invest a lot into the team already.

It would go a long ways for the owner to give a damn.

Yes, we need a rich fan, or a group of them, to buy the team!

[phil413]

Burkhead deal was 3.15M, look for then to kick some more LB tires until one signs for 3M...maybe even a month from now.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-15-2017, 07:08 PM)phil413 Wrote: Burkhead deal was 3.15M, look for then to kick some more LB tires until one signs for 3M...maybe even a month from now.

I'd rather get a veteran LB over RB at $3 million given how good this RB draft class is and how much easier it is for a rookie RB to contribute immediately.

[kevin]

(03-14-2017, 05:20 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've talked about this before and it's becoming very frustrating. Over the last few years, the Bengals have been placing greater and greater value on comp picks...to the point where it more or less dictates their activity in free agency.

From Hobson: 

The Bengals want to make sure they get a third-round compensatory pick for Kevin Zeitler’s deal in Cleveland and a compensatory fifth for Andrew Whitworth’s deal in Los Angeles. Now with Peko, Burkhead, and Karlos Dansby already signing or about to sign deals worthy of picks, the Bengals have some room to maneuver on the unrestricted market.

As a fan, I want the comp picks when a team makes Zeitler the highest paid guard in NFL history. Is he that good. NO WAY. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-16-2017, 09:14 AM)kevin Wrote: As a fan, I want the comp picks when a team makes Zeitler the highest paid guard in NFL history. Is he that good. NO WAY. 

Kevin Zeitler isn't better than an end-of-the-third round rookie who comes over a year later? I beg to differ.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2017, 12:18 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Mike Brown knows how to use free agency to keep his pockets filled. Either don't sign anyone so they can be replaced with cheaper comp picks or only sign people who will play for peanuts. This bastard is so cheap it's sickening.

Mike Brown spent over the league cap amount the last two years to pay his players.

And if it was all about making money to him he would pocket the extra cap space like some owners do instead of rolling it forward to the next season.

[fredtoast]

(03-16-2017, 09:18 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Kevin Zeitler isn't better than an end-of-the-third round rookie who comes over a year later? I beg to differ.

You don't understand the math.

Is Zeitler better than a draft pick plus $12 million a year to spend on other players?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-16-2017, 10:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't understand the math.

Is Zeitler better than a draft pick plus $12 million a year to spend on other players?

I do understand the math. It's not draft pick + $12 million. It's $12 million minus the cost of the 3rd round comp pick. And I would say it depends on who the other players are.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2017, 07:05 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Yes, we need a rich fan, or a group of them, to buy the team!

Right.  Because all of the fans here are4 so perfect at building a Super Bowl team that the only way you couldpossibly disagree with any of their moves is if you do not want to win.

BTW which rich fan do you want to buy the Bengals?  The ones who want to trade AJ Green?  the ones who would have cut Dalton by now?  The ones who said any team that signed Peko "did not want to win"?  The ones who said Justin Smith was garbage?  The ones who claimed Dre Kirkpatrick was one of the absolute worst CBs in the entire league in '15?  How about the ones who were insisting that we sign Albert Haynesworth?

The people around here whose egos are so big that they think the only possible way anyone could disagree with their plans is if that person "does not want to win" are delusional.  NFL teams do not make the playoffs 6 of 8 years just by accident while they are not even trying to win.  And as hard as it is to win a Super Bowl if any of you really had a foolproof way to do it you would be making millions of dollars.

[muskiesfan]

(03-16-2017, 10:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown spent over the league cap amount the last two years to pay his players.

And if it was all about making money to him he would pocket the extra cap space like some owners do instead of rolling it forward to the next season.

He has spent over the cap because of the rollover money. That gives the team a higher adjusted cap. Even then he still doesn't spend all of it. It's not like Mike Brown is just throwing money around at people.

[muskiesfan]

(03-16-2017, 10:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right.  Because all of the fans here are4 so perfect at building a Super Bowl team that the only way you couldpossibly disagree with any of their moves is if you do not want to win.

BTW which rich fan do you want to buy the Bengals?  The ones who want to trade AJ Green?  the ones who would have cut Dalton by now?  The ones who said any team that signed Peko "did not want to win"?  The ones who said Justin Smith was garbage?  The ones who claimed Dre Kirkpatrick was one of the absolute worst CBs in the entire league in '15?  How about the ones who were insisting that we sign Albert Haynesworth?

The people around here whose egos are so big that they think the only possible way anyone could disagree with their plans is if that person "does not want to win" are delusional.  NFL teams do not make the playoffs 6 of 8 years just by accident while they are not even trying to win.  And as hard as it is to win a Super Bowl if any of you really had a foolproof way to do it you would be making millions of dollars.

Even if this rich fan did all of those things, the fan couldn't do worse than no playoff wins in 26 years. They could potentially match it, but not do any worse.

So the fans with the egos about knowing how to win are just delusional. Then what about the fans with the egos even bigger than those fan who run around telling those fans how they're so much smarter about football. Are they delusional because they claim to be even smarter?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-16-2017, 10:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right.  Because all of the fans here are4 so perfect at building a Super Bowl team that the only way you couldpossibly disagree with any of their moves is if you do not want to win.

BTW which rich fan do you want to buy the Bengals?  The ones who want to trade AJ Green?  the ones who would have cut Dalton by now?  The ones who said any team that signed Peko "did not want to win"?  The ones who said Justin Smith was garbage?  The ones who claimed Dre Kirkpatrick was one of the absolute worst CBs in the entire league in '15?  How about the ones who were insisting that we sign Albert Haynesworth?

The people around here whose egos are so big that they think the only possible way anyone could disagree with their plans is if that person "does not want to win" are delusional.  NFL teams do not make the playoffs 6 of 8 years just by accident while they are not even trying to win.  And as hard as it is to win a Super Bowl if any of you really had a foolproof way to do it you would be making millions of dollars.

I don't know which is more improbably...making the playoffs 6 out of 8 years in a row (or) losing all 6 playoff games.

You do bring up a great set of points though Fred. The average fan thinks they could draft or sign free agents...but they likely couldn't.

[jj22]

Comp picks dictating free agent approach, but watch somehow Cle,Bal,Pit,NE get 3rd round comp picks again (like they did this draft) given the amount of money they spend and people they sign in free agency. Something isn't right with this Comp pick plan we seem to try to implement. Yet we get no 3rd round picks and teams who break the bank in free agency seem to get 3rd round picks still. Even Hobspin admitted the front office misjudged the comp picks this draft, and were caught off guard by not at least getting 2 4's. Yet they didn't learn much after they sacrificed a season (and ended up with 6 wins) for comp picks. Here we go again. Maybe it'll work this time. Just took 2 "down" seasons to implement.