Mike is setting everyone up for heartache

[OrlandoBengal]

(03-28-2017, 10:36 AM)michaelsean Wrote: If I were a billionaire, or close to it, I'd sleep well too.  

The Bengals are valued at $1.6 billion, but who knows how much more they would actually sell for.  He is well beyond billionaire status.

[3wt]

(03-27-2017, 11:00 PM)eoxyod Wrote: A team would never come to Cincy again if the Bengals left

This.   We can't fill a stadium for a playoff team without the opponent's fans.

As much as we complain about the team, most of us would be devastated if they moved.  St. Louis will never have another NFL team, neither would we.

[Whatever]

(03-28-2017, 12:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think there's something to be said for loyalty. Fans are expected to show loyalty when the chips are down, yet teams can't hang around for awhile and try to make things work? How long were these teams really trying to get a stadium deal done? They can't make some concessions to return the loyalty these cities have shown them through the years? The reality is that the loyalty is one-sided. 

I think every team has a responsibility to bargain in good faith with their current market.  However, let's be real.  Oakland's stadium has been a substandard shxthole for a long time.  A lot of the politicians simply won't do anything for the clubs as long as they have a current lease to hold the team hostage with.  They wait until the last minute to try and swing a deal, get outbid, then play the loyalty card so it doesn't seem like it's their fault.  Most of the teams who've recently moved are signing lease extensions because negotiations drug on so long.

If it was me, I'd put a new stadium levy up for vote this year and start getting investors lined up now, and start taking bids and getting my pricng locked up.  Stockpile the funds for 4-5 years and start construction 3 years before the PBS lease is up.  It's going to cost more the longer they drag their feet.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs

100% This

[Marlon23]

(03-28-2017, 10:35 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: It is insanity.  At some point, a stand needs to be taken.  Why are we, the citizens, expected to build stadiums for billionaires so that they can then sell us tickets to come watch their product in the stadium that we built?  You have school programs being cut, but "we" need to help out a bunch of guys who are in the top 1/10 of 1%?  Any of these guys has the ability to build their own stadiums, and they should do so.

Yes!   :andy: Everything is backwards!

[grampahol]

There is no real logic behind being a fan of any team much less the Bengals.  For the team its about being a business. It IS an entertainment business and could thrive just about anywhere where there's enough people to crowd into a stadium 8 days per year..
Try to imagine any other business that could thrive and make billions of dollars only open for business 8 days a year..Well, that's Paul Brown stadium.. if there's logic behind the equation I just don't see it, but yet there it is and many of you will become willing participants in paying for the right to become walking billboards to put even more money into the equation.. 
Personally it wouldn't matter to me if they relocated and became the Antarctica Ekstrom Ice Shelf Bengals. 

[grampahol]

(03-28-2017, 10:35 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: It is insanity.  At some point, a stand needs to be taken.  Why are we, the citizens, expected to build stadiums for billionaires so that they can then sell us tickets to come watch their product in the stadium that we built?  You have school programs being cut, but "we" need to help out a bunch of guys who are in the top 1/10 of 1%?  Any of these guys has the ability to build their own stadiums, and they should do so.

But, but, but...they're the 'job creators..' Let's put a 'businessman in office and hope the country isn't relocated to Pakistan..

[*Go Cards*]

(03-28-2017, 08:21 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm in Louisville as well. If they moved here, well, they won't. Did you know Louisville is the biggest city in the country without a top tier Professional Sports team of any kind? Closest thing we have is triple A baseball courtesy of the Reds.
And I'm not sure what MB meant by "can you imagine what it would be like if we were still in Riverfront?" The money spent on PBS could have paid for huge upgrades to Riverfront. Always seemed stupid to me to just tear it down and start over if they weren't going with a dome.

In Louisville too, the Lyndon area actually.

Screamed for an NFL team back in the day but then Nashville and Indianapolis beat Louisville to the punch and gave up hope that it would ever happen here surrounded by three markets.

Sad too because Louisville could support an NFL team in my mind. Yet not the long seasons of MLB or NBA which the latter is what they always tease with. Would only go to a game or two a year if it was NBA. Which is more than I watch on TV actually.

Great college town and can live with that I guess. If Bengals move will just take in a lot more Louisville Cardinal games myself. 

[Pat5775]

If they leave, they leave.

I don't even want to think about that. I'm not so much dreading it as I am expecting it. In my lifetime, I think it's very likely the Bengals will leave Cincy at some point. That's going to be a brutal day. One full of sorrow, tears and plenty of whiskey I'm sure. It will also likely be the end of my time as a professional football fan. I can't imagine cheering for "The St. Louis Bengals" or some shit like that. Just wouldn't feel right. At the same time though... I'll be free. I'll be free from football-related stress. I'm sure that'll do wonders for my health. But I'll feel like a huge part of me is missing (as sad and weird as that is to say)

[Whatever]

(03-28-2017, 10:35 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: It is insanity.  At some point, a stand needs to be taken.  Why are we, the citizens, expected to build stadiums for billionaires so that they can then sell us tickets to come watch their product in the stadium that we built?  You have school programs being cut, but "we" need to help out a bunch of guys who are in the top 1/10 of 1%?  Any of these guys has the ability to build their own stadiums, and they should do so.

However, if the league and the owner's are going to pony up their own money for stadiums, then they should be free to move their teams whenever and wherever they please.

There's honestly a lot of hypocrisy from fans about the issue.  The owners should spend their money to build the stadium, but shouldn't be allowed to move their team out of loyalty to the fan base and the community, even if the community doesn't fill the stadium.

Congress is not passing legislation to prevent cities from using tax dollars to build stadiums for professional sports teams, and that's the only way a stop gets put to it.  If Cincinnati won't pony up the money for stadium renovations or a new stadium, another city will.  That's the reality of the situation.  In all honesty, the Brown family is the least able ownership group in the NFL to foot the bill for a stadium. Being honest, why would they foot the bill to build a new stadium in a town that they can't even sell out their current stadium with playoff teams?  If the owners should pay for their stadiums, the Bengals shouldn't be in Cincinnati. If Cincinnati won't pay up, someone else will, whether anybody thinks it's fair or not.

[Sled21]

(03-28-2017, 11:46 AM)Go Cards Wrote: In Louisville too, the Lyndon area actually.

Screamed for an NFL team back in the day but then Nashville and Indianapolis beat Louisville to the punch and gave up hope that it would ever happen here surrounded by three markets.

Sad too because Louisville could support an NFL team in my mind. Yet not the long seasons of MLB or NBA which the latter is what they always tease with. Would only go to a game or two a year if it was NBA. Which is more than I watch on TV actually.

Great college town and can live with that I guess. If Bengals move will just take in a lot more Louisville Cardinal games myself. 

I'm off of Bardstown Rd. almost to Bullitt Co. Yeah, they keep teasing an NBA team at the Yum Center, but I don't think it would sell...I'd love to have an NFL team here... with the proximity of Nashville, Cincy and Indy there could be some great rivalries.... 

[OrlandoBengal]

(03-28-2017, 12:41 PM)Whatever Wrote: However, if the league and the owner's are going to pony up their own money for stadiums, then they should be free to move their teams whenever and wherever they please.

There's honestly a lot of hypocrisy from fans about the issue.  The owners should spend their money to build the stadium, but shouldn't be allowed to move their team out of loyalty to the fan base and the community, even if the community doesn't fill the stadium.

Congress is not passing legislation to prevent cities from using tax dollars to build stadiums for professional sports teams, and that's the only way a stop gets put to it.  If Cincinnati won't pony up the money for stadium renovations or a new stadium, another city will.  That's the reality of the situation.  In all honesty, the Brown family is the least able ownership group in the NFL to foot the bill for a stadium. Being honest, why would they foot the bill to build a new stadium in a town that they can't even sell out their current stadium with playoff teams?  If the owners should pay for their stadiums, the Bengals shouldn't be in Cincinnati. If Cincinnati won't pay up, someone else will, whether anybody thinks it's fair or not.

I agree that owners should be able to move their teams, especially if they build and own their own stadiums (doing so would also drastically increase the value of each team).

What makes you think Mike Brown, or any other owner, would not be able to finance their own stadium?  Mike Brown owns an asset, the Bengals, that is valued at $1.6 billion.  An asset that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue each and every year, a revenue stream that is guaranteed.  Based just off this, without even thinking about his personal wealth, you don't think almost any bank would be lined up to provide financing?  They would be fighting for the deal.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-28-2017, 09:19 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Loyalty? My only question is those who refuse to go to the stadium and buy tickets, refuse to support the owner/team, do you consider them loyal?

The Bengals are in a unique situation with Mike Brown, but yes I think fans that threaten boycott are loyal in their own way. Not to Mike Brown, but to the team itself (not saying this is the only way to show loyalty). You can't compare our situation with that of other teams though. We have a special one-of-a-kind owner.

(03-28-2017, 10:43 AM)3wt Wrote: We can't fill a stadium for a playoff team without the opponent's fans.

This is a Mike Brown related problem. Cincinnati loves football. People are just burned out on Mike Brown and the fact that we haven't won a playoff game in 26 years and have never won a championship. That's pretty much the feelings of every casual Bengals fan I've met, and most diehards (outside of a few people on this message board) as well. A new team and new ownership would bring hope. Mike Brown just isn't someone people believe in.

(03-28-2017, 11:03 AM)Whatever Wrote: I think every team has a responsibility to bargain in good faith with their current market.  However, let's be real.  Oakland's stadium has been a substandard shxthole for a long time.  A lot of the politicians simply won't do anything for the clubs as long as they have a current lease to hold the team hostage with.  They wait until the last minute to try and swing a deal, get outbid, then play the loyalty card so it doesn't seem like it's their fault.  Most of the teams who've recently moved are signing lease extensions because negotiations drug on so long.

If it was me, I'd put a new stadium levy up for vote this year and start getting investors lined up now, and start taking bids and getting my pricng locked up.  Stockpile the funds for 4-5 years and start construction 3 years before the PBS lease is up.  It's going to cost more the longer they drag their feet.

The Oakland stadium does suck. Did the Raiders offer to help in any way? What about the stadiums and negotiations with San Diego and St Louis? Were any concessions made? Did those teams really do all they could to work with and help those cities? I honestly don't know, but I somehow doubt it.

[OrlandoBengal]

(03-28-2017, 01:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is a Mike Brown related problem. Cincinnati loves football. People are just burned out on Mike Brown and the fact that we haven't won a playoff game in 26 years and have never won a championship. That's pretty much the feelings of every casual Bengals fan I've met, and most diehards (outside of a few people on this message board) as well. A new team and new ownership would bring hope. Mike Brown just isn't someone people believe in.

This sums it up right here.  Mike Brown is standoffish, does not speak with the media often, is not very visable, has never really tried to form any kind of even decent relationship with the community, and on top of that you have the futility that has taken the field for much of his tenure.

[*jason*]

(03-27-2017, 08:35 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Maybe the Raiders could send that $300+ million relocation fee on a new stadium?

This...

The Raiders have no moved 3 times in my lifetime.... What a joke.

[Luvnit2]

(03-28-2017, 01:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Bengals are in a unique situation with Mike Brown, but yes I think fans that threaten boycott are loyal in their own way. Not to Mike Brown, but to the team itself (not saying this is the only way to show loyalty). You can't compare our situation with that of other teams though. We have a special one-of-a-kind owner.


This is a Mike Brown related problem. Cincinnati loves football. People are just burned out on Mike Brown and the fact that we haven't won a playoff game in 26 years and have never won a championship. That's pretty much the feelings of every casual Bengals fan I've met, and most diehards (outside of a few people on this message board) as well. A new team and new ownership would bring hope. Mike Brown just isn't someone people believe in.


The Oakland stadium does suck. Did the Raiders offer to help in any way? What about the stadiums and negotiations with San Diego and St Louis? Were any concessions made? Did those teams really do all they could to work with and help those cities? I honestly don't know, but I somehow doubt it.

Not threaten to boycott was my question, those who actually boycott (quit on the team financially). Are they loyal?

[Shake n Blake]

(03-28-2017, 02:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Not threaten to boycott was my question, those who actually boycott (quit on the team financially). Are they loyal?

To the team and winning...but not to ownership. I don't see how this is relevant though, because there's always plenty of folks who are loyal to ownership with their wallet.

[Luvnit2]

(03-28-2017, 02:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: To the team and winning...but not to ownership. I don't see how this is relevant though, because there's always plenty of folks who are loyal to ownership with their wallet.

It is relevant because yes many are loyal with their wallets, but many are not. My point simply is those not loyal with their wallet (and can afford it, but are making some kind of stand) will never have the right to moan and complain if an owner chooses greener pastures IMHO.

Heck, I may be in that group in 2018, just look at my signature. I understand all to well frustration, but our action can create reactions, reactions like teams leaving we don't want to happen.

[Whatever]

(03-28-2017, 01:01 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I agree that owners should be able to move their teams, especially if they build and own their own stadiums (doing so would also drastically increase the value of each team).

What makes you think Mike Brown, or any other owner, would not be able to finance their own stadium?  Mike Brown owns an asset, the Bengals, that is valued at $1.6 billion.  An asset that generates hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue each and every year, a revenue stream that is guaranteed.  Based just off this, without even thinking about his personal wealth, you don't think almost any bank would be lined up to provide financing?  They would be fighting for the deal.

The franchise is worth $1.6 billion and a new stadium will be a minimum of $700 million, almost half of the team's value.  On top of that, think about how much interest he would pay on that $700 million dollar loan over 20 years or so.  He could probably do it if he had to, but it would greatly hurt the team's profitability.

But that leads to the next question.  If he's paying for the stadium, why would he build it in Cincinnati?  He'd be an idiot to do so.  With the current regime, he typically puts an above average product on the field, has the 3rd lowest ticket price and cheapest stadium experience in the league, and still can't fill the current stadium.  Not only would he likely sell out in a new market, he could also raise ticket prices and make more than in Cincinnati.

The reality of it is, building stadiums is the small market's way of making up for lost revenue compared to large ones.

[OrlandoBengal]

(03-28-2017, 02:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: The franchise is worth $1.6 billion and a new stadium will be a minimum of $700 million, almost half of the team's value.  On top of that, think about how much interest he would pay on that $700 million dollar loan over 20 years or so.  He could probably do it if he had to, but it would greatly hurt the team's profitability.

But that leads to the next question.  If he's paying for the stadium, why would he build it in Cincinnati?  He'd be an idiot to do so.  With the current regime, he typically puts an above average product on the field, has the 3rd lowest ticket price and cheapest stadium experience in the league, and still can't fill the current stadium.  Not only would he likely sell out in a new market, he could also raise ticket prices and make more than in Cincinnati.

The reality of it is, building stadiums is the small market's way of making up for lost revenue compared to large ones.

You're not taking into account that the value of his asset would rise with ownership of a new stadium, there would be no lease payments to be made, and he would have revenue from other events held throughout the year. As a business owner, he would have the ability to build his stadium anywhere the NFL would allow it (he is actually a franchisee of the league).  NFL teams everywhere have trouble selling out their stadiums, which is why the bulk of their revenue comes from the television contracts. 

I strongly disagree about this team's ability to sell out in other markets.  The organization has put an "above average product" on the field for the last seven years, but as Shake pointed out above you really need to look at the history of this team, specifically Mike Brown, and the relationship with the community.  Very little is done, or has been done, to build bridges.  Then take into account the history of absolute futility that this team owns.  I feel like this team "gets" quite well for what they give.