Marvin Lewis: Bengals haven’t talked about trading AJ McCarron

[fredtoast]

(04-03-2017, 05:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Going 2-3 with the two wins against like 3rd string QBs on 5 win teams isn't exactly screaming "need".

C'mon, man, you are better than that.

Looking just at the W-L record is a pretty silly way to judge a QB.  How exactly does Hill not fumbling make McCarron a better QB?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-04-2017, 04:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: C'mon, man, you are better than that.

Looking just at the W-L record is a pretty silly way to judge a QB.  How exactly does Hill not fumbling make McCarron a better QB?

If McCarron did anything in the first 3 quarters of the game (against one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL) then the Bengals win easily. Heck, even if he continued to do absolutely nothing for the first 3 quarters and just simply didn't turn the ball over twice, the Bengals win easily.

Fact is, once Denver realized that McCarron couldn't play against zone defenses, he never reached 6 yards per attempt again. AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Tyler Eifert, Gio Bernard, and he went three straight games below 6 yards per attempt once they realized he couldn't read a zone.

Not to mention 15 sacks in a little under 5 games behind an OL that had given up just 21 in a little over 12 games prior. Plus a LOT of happy feet scrambles for minimal yardage.


There, judging him not by the W-L.

EDIT: Also the offense went from 27.8 pts/gm (would have been 4th in the NFL) to 20.2 pts/gm (would have been 25th in the NFL).

[THE PISTONS]

I think the thing with McCarron is he follows a long line of QB's that played a few games and showed just enough to intrigue NFL teams. In the line of Scott Mitchell and Matt Flynn.

How many times have these guys actually went to another team and became a star? By star...I mean franchise QB.

If you look at the teams that make Super Bowls and win them...it's guys who put up elite stats. I don't see AJ as that.

[Gohards]

(04-04-2017, 07:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If McCarron did anything in the first 3 quarters of the game (against one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL) then the Bengals win easily. Heck, even if he continued to do absolutely nothing for the first 3 quarters and just simply didn't turn the ball over twice, the Bengals win easily.

This is everything that people fail to realize about AJM

Do you also realize that Pittsburgh haf the 31st ranked secondary that year?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-05-2017, 11:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think the thing with McCarron is he follows a long line of QB's that played a few games and showed just enough to intrigue NFL teams. In the line of Scott Mitchell and Matt Flynn.

How many times have these guys actually went to another team and became a star? By star...I mean franchise QB.

If you look at the teams that make Super Bowls and win them...it's guys who put up elite stats. I don't see AJ as that.

There's actually a pretty good amount of QBs who win SBs as non-elite that year. Since 2000:

2015: Peyton Manning was done physically. Had his brain and a beast of a D.
2013: Russell Wilson threw for 3,300 yards in the regular season, and 524 yards in 3 postseason games. Had Lynch and a great D. (He went 9-18, 103 yards, 0 TD in the WC round that year.)
2012: Flacco had 59.7% completion, 22 TD/10 INT
2008: Ben Rapistburger had 59.1% completion, 3,300 yards, 17 TD/15 INT
2007: Eli Manning had 56.1% completion, 3,300 yards (6.3 YPA), 23 TD/20 INT
2005: Ben Roethlisberger (12 games) had 2,300 yards, 17 TD/9 INT... and the worst SB ever by a winning QB. 9-21 (42.9%), 123 yards (5.9 YPA), 0 TD/2 INT
2002: Brad Johnson threw for only 3,000 yards. In the postseason he had a 54.1% completion and 5 TD/3 INT, yet they won three games with a total score of 106 to 37.
2001: Tom Brady threw for 2,800 yards, 18 TD/12 INT. In 3 postseason games he had 572 yards (312 of it in the WC round), 5.9 YPA, and 1 TD/1 INT.
2000: Trent Dilfer. Nuff said.

I do agree with you that McCarron isn't going to ever be a guy to carry a team as a franchise QB, though.

[BigSeph]

I've led some of these forum posters by the nose through the specifics of AJM's performances in every single game last season.

It doesn't matter - some of you guys have such a bizarre hatred for AJM that it destroys your ability to reason.

Blaming a playoff loss on a backup QB who had limited 1st team reps, was making his 4th start ever in the NFL, in a rain game, and put the team ahead late and watched Hill fumble the ball away and Burfict and Pacman giftwrap a game-winning FG to the Steelers, then had the guts to stand in front of reporters and say we win as a team and we lose as a team and not throw shade on his teammates while you "fans" talk about him like he's a pathetic QB........ some of you guys are ridiculous.

AJ McCarron has a career QB rating 5 points higher than Andy Dalton.

Has a better playoff QB rating in his one start (where he was just soooooo bad) than Andy Dalton has put up in any of his 4 playoff starts.

Remind me again why some of you never run out of excuses for Andy but bag on AJM every chance you get....

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

A girl mentions AJ McCarron and he:



ESPN mentions AJ McCarron and he:



His phone sends and update that Dalton is hurt and he:



He goes to open the window and see a McCarron fathead on his wall and he:

[BigSeph]

(04-06-2017, 01:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A girl mentions AJ McCarron and he:



ESPN mentions AJ McCarron and he:



His phone sends and update that Dalton is hurt and he:



He goes to open the window and see a McCarron fathead on his wall and he:

I remember when I was 10 years old and made jokes like that, kid.

[rezolve11]

(04-06-2017, 12:41 AM)BigSeph Wrote: I've led some of these forum posters by the nose through the specifics of AJM's performances in every single game last season.

It doesn't matter - some of you guys have such a bizarre hatred for AJM that it destroys your ability to reason.

Blaming a playoff loss on a backup QB who had limited 1st team reps, was making his 4th start ever in the NFL, in a rain game, and put the team ahead late and watched Hill fumble the ball away and Burfict and Pacman giftwrap a game-winning FG to the Steelers, then had the guts to stand in front of reporters and say we win as a team and we lose as a team and not throw shade on his teammates while you "fans" talk about him like he's a pathetic QB........ some of you guys are ridiculous.

AJ McCarron has a career QB rating 5 points higher than Andy Dalton.

Has a better playoff QB rating in his one start (where he was just soooooo bad) than Andy Dalton has put up in any of his 4 playoff starts.

Remind me again why some of you never run out of excuses for Andy but bag on AJM every chance you get....

I don't usually get into these kinds of things, but McCarron has not played enough for us to decide whether he will or won't be a successful QB somewhere else. We have a sample size. I don't have any kind of hatred for AJM. I like him as a backup. 

Here are his stat lines for everyone who needs them:
22/32 280 2 TD 2 INT vs PITT - Loss   
Pitt had the 30th ranked pass defense. 21st overall defense.

15/21 192 1 TD 0 INT vs SF - Win 
SF had the 27th ranked pass defense. 29th overall defense.

22/35 200 1 TD 0 INT vs DEN - Loss 
DEN had the 1st ranked pass defense. 1st overall defense.

17/27 160 2 TD 0 INT vs BAL - Win 
BAL had the 10th ranked pass defense. 8th overall defense.

23/41 212 1 TD 1 INT vs PITT - Loss 

In my opinion, his stats show that he can't be more than a simple game manager. He is not someone who is going to win you games. I'll even admit that during the first half of the Denver game he looked REALLY good, I was dreaming of a playoff run. But he was completely shut down in the second half. It's very possible that he goes to another team and does well. It's also possible he goes to another team and is out of the league in 3 years. We just don't know. We won't know for a few more years at least. I would not want him as my starter over Andy.

[BengalChris]

(04-06-2017, 01:37 PM)rezolve11 Wrote: I don't usually get into these kinds of things, but McCarron has not played enough for us to decide whether he will or won't be a successful QB somewhere else. We have a sample size. I don't have any kind of hatred for AJM. I like him as a backup. 

Here are his stat lines for everyone who needs them:
22/32 280 2 TD 2 INT vs PITT - Loss   
Pitt had the 30th ranked pass defense. 21st overall defense.

15/21 192 1 TD 0 INT vs SF - Win 
SF had the 27th ranked pass defense. 29th overall defense.

22/35 200 1 TD 0 INT vs DEN - Loss 
DEN had the 1st ranked pass defense. 1st overall defense.

17/27 160 2 TD 0 INT vs BAL - Win 
BAL had the 10th ranked pass defense. 8th overall defense.

23/41 212 1 TD 1 INT vs PITT - Loss 

In my opinion, his stats show that he can't be more than a simple game manager. He is not someone who is going to win you games. I'll even admit that during the first half of the Denver game he looked REALLY good, I was dreaming of a playoff run. But he was completely shut down in the second half. It's very possible that he goes to another team and does well. It's also possible he goes to another team and is out of the league in 3 years. We just don't know. We won't know for a few more years at least. I would not want him as my starter over Andy.

For a QB playing in his first NFL games and that first one being a game where he had to come in off the bench cold with essentially no practice time he did pretty good. Took the eventual SB champions into overtime and the team had the lead with under a minute to go in the playoff game against Pitt, which happens to be better than any Bengals QB has done since Boomer. Dalton has had worse playoff games with a lot time under center.

[XenoMorph]

(04-06-2017, 12:41 AM)BigSeph Wrote: I've led some of these forum posters by the nose through the specifics of AJM's performances in every single game last season.

It doesn't matter - some of you guys have such a bizarre hatred for AJM that it destroys your ability to reason.

Blaming a playoff loss on a backup QB who had limited 1st team reps, was making his 4th start ever in the NFL, in a rain game, and put the team ahead late and watched Hill fumble the ball away and Burfict and Pacman giftwrap a game-winning FG to the Steelers, then had the guts to stand in front of reporters and say we win as a team and we lose as a team and not throw shade on his teammates while you "fans" talk about him like he's a pathetic QB........ some of you guys are ridiculous.

AJ McCarron has a career QB rating 5 points higher than Andy Dalton.

Has a better playoff QB rating in his one start (where he was just soooooo bad) than Andy Dalton has put up in any of his 4 playoff starts.

Remind me again why some of you never run out of excuses for Andy but bag on AJM every chance you get....

AJM did great in the 4th Qtr  it was the 1st 3 Qtr that were bad.

[*Nately120*]

You can't judge any Bengals players by the playoffs. We straight-up become a 4-12 squad as soon as the damn game starts.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-06-2017, 12:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's actually a pretty good amount of QBs who win SBs as non-elite that year. Since 2000:

2015: Peyton Manning was done physically. Had his brain and a beast of a D.
2013: Russell Wilson threw for 3,300 yards in the regular season, and 524 yards in 3 postseason games. Had Lynch and a great D. (He went 9-18, 103 yards, 0 TD in the WC round that year.)
2012: Flacco had 59.7% completion, 22 TD/10 INT
2008: Ben Rapistburger had 59.1% completion, 3,300 yards, 17 TD/15 INT
2007: Eli Manning had 56.1% completion, 3,300 yards (6.3 YPA), 23 TD/20 INT
2005: Ben Roethlisberger (12 games) had 2,300 yards, 17 TD/9 INT... and the worst SB ever by a winning QB. 9-21 (42.9%), 123 yards (5.9 YPA), 0 TD/2 INT
2002: Brad Johnson threw for only 3,000 yards. In the postseason he had a 54.1% completion and 5 TD/3 INT, yet they won three games with a total score of 106 to 37.
2001: Tom Brady threw for 2,800 yards, 18 TD/12 INT. In 3 postseason games he had 572 yards (312 of it in the WC round), 5.9 YPA, and 1 TD/1 INT.
2000: Trent Dilfer. Nuff said.

I do agree with you that McCarron isn't going to ever be a guy to carry a team as a franchise QB, though.

You mean to tell me you're not WACCO FOR FLACCO?! BUT HE HAS A BIG ARM! THEREFORE HE'S BETTER THAN ANDY DALTON, RIGHT?! 

[BigSeph]

(04-06-2017, 01:37 PM)rezolve11 Wrote: I don't usually get into these kinds of things, but McCarron has not played enough for us to decide whether he will or won't be a successful QB somewhere else. We have a sample size. I don't have any kind of hatred for AJM. I like him as a backup. 

Here are his stat lines for everyone who needs them:
22/32 280 2 TD 2 INT vs PITT - Loss   
Pitt had the 30th ranked pass defense. 21st overall defense.

15/21 192 1 TD 0 INT vs SF - Win 
SF had the 27th ranked pass defense. 29th overall defense.

22/35 200 1 TD 0 INT vs DEN - Loss 
DEN had the 1st ranked pass defense. 1st overall defense.

17/27 160 2 TD 0 INT vs BAL - Win 
BAL had the 10th ranked pass defense. 8th overall defense.

23/41 212 1 TD 1 INT vs PITT - Loss 

In my opinion, his stats show that he can't be more than a simple game manager. He is not someone who is going to win you games. I'll even admit that during the first half of the Denver game he looked REALLY good, I was dreaming of a playoff run. But he was completely shut down in the second half. It's very possible that he goes to another team and does well. It's also possible he goes to another team and is out of the league in 3 years. We just don't know. We won't know for a few more years at least. I would not want him as my starter over Andy.

That's what Tom Brady's stats looked like for his entire first season as a starter.

Tom Brady first year as starter - 63.9 comp%, 4.4 TD%, 2.9 INT%, 6.9 YPA, 189.5 YPG, 86.5 QB RTG, 9% sack rate

AJ McCarron's stats from the games you listed - 66.4 comp%, 5.0 TD%, 1.7 INT%, 7.2 YPA, 122 YPG, 97.1 QB RTG, 9.2% sack rate

And Tom Brady got the "game manager" label from people too.