Try to sell me on O.J. Howard.

[Jpoore]

(04-04-2017, 12:15 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I still don't want my TE blocking a DE in pass pro.

Only if its butt. Nobody else has that ability. But yeah i get what ur saying.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-04-2017, 08:08 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Only if its butt. Nobody else has that ability. But yeah i get what ur saying.

Why do you keep saying that Jake Butt is an elite pass blocker?

PFF Wrote:Inexperience in pass protection; hasn’t shown strong ability in pass protection when asked to stay in.
Asked to pass block on just 11.6 percent of his passing snaps last season (167th out of 197 draft-eligible tight ends); surrendered eight pressures on 85 pass block attempts over the past two seasons.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-jake-butt-te-michigan/

[Jpoore]

(04-05-2017, 09:41 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Why do you keep saying that Jake Butt is an elite pass blocker?


https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-jake-butt-te-michigan/

Because I go off of my eyes. I've seeen butt stand up bosa 1 on 1 multiple times in a game multiple years. Also went back and watched tape of him. And according to one NFL executive he is like Jason written which is who I have compared him to.

[Hammerstripes]

Got news for you, there is no such thing as an elite pass blocking TE. If there was, he would be playing OT and making a ton of money.

Sorry, you put Jake Butt up against any of the top DEs in this class and he would get embarrassed in pass pro

[Jpoore]

(04-05-2017, 07:38 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Got news for you, there is no such thing as an elite pass blocking TE.  If there was, he would be playing OT and making a ton of money.

Sorry, you put Jake Butt up against any of the top DEs in this class and he would get embarrassed in pass pro

Again he did it against bosa. And witten does it on a weekly basis. Now ur not blocking them for 4-5 seconds, but 3. 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-05-2017, 07:21 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Because I go off of my eyes. I've seeen butt stand up bosa 1 on 1 multiple times in a game multiple years. Also went back and watched tape of him. And according to one NFL executive he is like Jason written which is who I have compared him to.

If he's such an elite pass blocker, why do multiple respected sites/analysts say he needs work in that area?
Not only does PFF say it, but Daniel Jeremiah says it here - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000682501/article/first-look-scouting-michigan-te-jake-butt

Daniel Jeremiah Wrote:Pass protection is another area where he needs work. He does a nice job of staying square but he's too flimsy and will get torqued and tossed by defensive ends.

Given you mention Bosa, you're clearly talking about Joey Bosa. Since Bosa was drafted before this article was written, Daniel Jeremiah would have the tape showing the blocking Butt did against Bosa. Why is it that multiple credible sources are saying he's lacking in the area that you are saying he's so elite? Why does no analyst or site talk about how great Butt did against Bosa? Do you think they really just haven't taken the time to watch Butt as a pass blocker? Do you think they'd really put their reputation on the line by saying he needs work in that area if they didn't actually watch him pass block?

[Mike M (the other one)]

One of my favorite TE's that we could draft.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-george-kittle-te-iowa/

Stats to know: Has only allowed a single quarterback pressure over the last two seasons combined. Earned the second-highest run blocking grade (79.6) in 2016 among the TE draft class.

EDIT:
OJ Howard is rated as their best Run Blocker.

[kevin]

(04-02-2017, 01:30 AM)09ItsOurTime Wrote: There are few players in the top 15 who I want less than O.J. Howard.

People keep saying we don't need a Safety because we have 2 OK starters, or we dont need a LB because we signed an average starter for 1 year. But O.J. Howard would be the 3rd target AT BEST.

I don't see this Bengals coaching staff ever being able to effectively use 2 top TE's. It just doesn't make sense unless they're preparing for Eifert to leave next year, in which case they should trade him now for a 1st+.

His only redeeming qualities to me are that he is athletic(though it doesn't translate to scores) and he can block(in which case they should be going after o-linemen)

Just look at his stats, over 4 years of playing he has a total of 6 touchdowns. SIX, over 4 years...

I can't.....WE have been drafting TE and CB way too much in the 1st rounds. ....It's time to draft a position other than TE or CB......Myself, I would never draft a TE in round one unless the pick is around 32.  We pick at # 9 and a TE there is just stupid when we can get the LSU RB or the Bama LB or a D Lineman that has fallen to us.  Those are Pick 9 picks, not a TE....

I guess I didn't try to sell you on OJ at all.  If they take TE at pick 9 it only tells me our Bengals don't understand how to build a play-off game winner so therefore why we never win one. 

[McC]

(04-06-2017, 06:43 PM)kevin Wrote: I can't.....WE have been drafting TE and CB way too much in the 1st rounds. ....It's time to draft a position other than TE or CB......Myself, I would never draft a TE in round one unless the pick is around 32.  We pick at # 9 and a TE there is just stupid when we can get the LSU RB or the Bama LB or a D Lineman that has fallen to us.  Those are Pick 9 picks, not a TE....

I guess I didn't try to sell you on OJ at all.  If they take TE at pick 9 it only tells me our Bengals don't understand how to build a play-off game winner so therefore why we never win one. 

To say "I would never draft a this or that at 9" is extremely short sighted. 

It comes down to the quality of the player.  Some years, there isn't a top ten Safety.  This year, there might be two.  Quite often, the top overall pick  is a QB.  Highly unlikely this year.

Most years, there probably isn't a TE rated that highly.  This year, there is.  Yes, there are other TE's to take later but none of them are as good or as complete.  If the guy is athletic, can catch and block, especially in the run game, that makes you a better team.  The last time we had an efficient running game was when Reggy Kelly was driving defenses crazy with his blocking.  You wouldn't want a Reggy Kelly who can run and catch? Might be the missing ingredient.

A fluid entity like the draft is no place for static thinking.

Who do I want at 9?  The best possible player.  And he has to play this year.  A lot.

It won't be a CB or QB.  No other position on either side of the ball is beyond upgrade.  Just get a great player.  There is lots of second and third round talent and ten more picks to make to hit those needs.

You build a playoff winner by having as many good players as you can.

[B3ng4Ls420]

Big,Fast,Strong,Agile,Smart,Patient,Great Hands...if those arent enough then i dont know how to sell you on anyone

[B3ng4Ls420]

(04-04-2017, 08:08 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Only if its butt. Nobody else has that ability. But yeah i get what ur saying.

Howard>Engram>Butt........before the injury this is different

[Jpoore]

(04-07-2017, 12:46 AM)B3ng4Ls420 Wrote: Howard>Engram>Butt........before the injury this is different

Hoping he falls to the third. Dont care what the "experts" say, i saw him take on top teir defensive ends and win. He was first round lock before the injury. Also latest news is he could be ready by mid june.

[BoomerFan]

I'd be curious about OJ's pyschological component. Did we interview him? I suppose we won't know what was in the interview anyways, but I could see that playing into the decision a lot. Was he really just underutilized at Alabama or does he lack passion/intensity in a practice setting.

And speaking of practice settings, I'm not really impressed by people making uncontested catches in the senior bowl. I mean, yes, I do hope you make the catch, but it shouldn't rocket you up into the top 10.

I just wonder if we ask a lot of OJ will he have trouble with dealing with a large number of routes? Will his long arms turn into alligator arms when an NFL safety gets there at the same time as the ball? Will his much touted blocking skills hold up at the NFL level?

It is true of course that any drafted player is unproven but the other fact is that TEs always fall. Happens in every draft. I don't know if that is other teams undervaluing them but it is true. Makes me want to take someone else at #9.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-03-2017, 01:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's fair. But then who really is better for the #9 pick?

The league is continuing to deemphasize the RB position to the point you can spend a mid-late round pick and get good production. Plus, LF might not dominate given the poor quality of run blocking the OL has done recently.
DE is debatable because while Barnett had great production in college, he is limited athletically.
WR could make sense, but I think it made more sense if the Bengals didn't re-sign LaFell. Now I think they wait until the middle rounds to get another WR to groom. A WR in the first will likely get just as much or less offensive snaps than Howard.
I hope no CB because the Bengals have enough depth at CB.
I could maybe see safety if Adams or Hooker is available, but how often would they get used? Would the Bengals be willing to push Shawn Williams to nickel LB to get a first round safety on the field?

I think Howard makes the most sense because he would fit this offense well, would provide a great red zone weapon, and would provide good insurance for if/when Eifert gets injured and potentially leave in FA next year. Some might say, "Well, if a deal can't be worked out, just tag Eifert." Given the tag amount is just short of $10 million, that seems unlikely the Bengals would use the Franchise Tag. It's very feasible the Bengals take the "luxury" TE for this year and only have to dedicate about $3 million for the #9 overall pick (2016 #9 overall only only counted $2.8 mill toward the cap), then they only approach $5 million by the end of the fourth year. So it makes sense from a Bengals financial perspective.

As a rookie, I see Howard being able to contribute both as a blocker and receiving weapon (especially in the red zone). Then take over as TE1 after Eifert leaves in FA in 2018.

Great post Ocho, Howard is just making too much sense.

I am expecting him to be the pick now...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-06-2017, 01:06 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: One of my favorite TE's that we could draft.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-george-kittle-te-iowa/

Stats to know: Has only allowed a single quarterback pressure over the last two seasons combined. Earned the second-highest run blocking grade (79.6) in 2016 among the TE draft class.

EDIT:
OJ Howard is rated as their best Run Blocker.

Thanks for this Mike, good one to think about if we don't draft Howard at 9 like i am expecting...