RBs and O-line

[fredtoast]

although the Bengals have ranked 13th in rushing yards each of the last two seasons most fans are concerned with the fact that we ranked 23rd and 21st in efficiency (yards per carry).

It is difficult to separate the problems with RBs from the problems with an O-line. For example, sometimes it seems to me that our RBs get stuffed for no gain or a loss much more often than other teams, but according to Footballoutsiders the Bengals ranked in the top half of the league (15th) in fewest stuffs last year, and the year before we were 3rd best in the entire league.

Footballoutsiders also uses a metric called "Adjusted Line Yards" to measure an O-lines run blocking efficiency. It gives more credit/blame to the O-line for losses and runs under 5 yards. It gives the RBs a little more credit for the yards gained from 5 to 10 yards passed the line of scrimmage (2nd level yards) and even more credit to the RB for yards gain 10+ yards passed the line of scrimmage (open field yards). It is interesting to note that each of the last two seasons the bengals have finished much lower in "2nd level yds" and "open field yds" than they did in "adjusted line yds"

.......ALY....SLY...OFY
'15....1.......14.....31
'16...14......26.....23

And even though it looks bad that we finished 23rd and 21st in average per carry the last two years we ranked even lower in number of runs of 20+ yds (25th and 28th).

I realize that good RBs will struggle behind bad lines, but they will also either make a guy miss or break a tackle to get a long run from time to time. I think we could use an upgrade. Hill is not as bad as a lot of people claim, but unless he improves dramatically in '17 he needs to be replaced. I like Gio much better, but he just did not get it done in'16.

[THE PISTONS]

I agree. I think we definitely will draft a RB early.

Fournette would be a good pick.

A guy like Cook is the absolute best at making guys miss...but he has the character issues.

There are plenty of other good backs too. I think as long as we take one in the top 3 Rounds...we should be fine.

[sonofstat]

there's so many stats ...its all in the interpretation. I think if we did not have the obvious challenges with the OLine (Ced specifically) then there would be even more heat on the RB's.

To be honest from what my eyes saw the biggest issue with the OLine last year was pass protection.

Even the previous season when our offense was way more productive and efficient the YPC was bad - even worse than this year i think.

Whatever way you look at it our two feature backs have had awful/pedestrian YPC for the last 2 years.

At least one of those years the OLine was being feted as being one of the best in the league...and the last season our 3rd choice running back came in and provided an immediate upgrade even when our OLine was being trashed.

I too like Gio..but maybe he and Hill are not the direct, forceful RB we need. When Hill just follows Hewitt into the running lane we seem to do OK...whenever there is pause/hesitation it never works out.

I'd prefer a quality RDE but if Fournette was there at #9 i'd grab him

[magikod]

Who knows how Gio will perform off his injury as well, he could never be the same player he once was sadly.

[Murdock2420]

(04-05-2017, 12:04 AM)magikod Wrote: Who knows how Gio will perform off his injury as well, he could never be the same player he once was sadly.

He hasn't looked the same since Shazier's cheap shot on him in the playoffs.

[Bengalsrob]

(04-05-2017, 01:07 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: He hasn't looked the same since Shazier's cheap shot on him in the playoffs.

He really hasn't, but the announcers were like a defense team for Pittsburgh as soon as it happened. Curious as to whether that would be an ejection under the new rules. If it isn't, they may as well scrap that new rule; it's totally useless.

[BengalHawk62]

(04-05-2017, 09:30 AM)Bengalsrob Wrote: He really hasn't, but the announcers were like a defense team for Pittsburgh as soon as it happened. Curious as to whether that would be an ejection under the new rules. If it isn't, they may as well scrap that new rule; it's totally useless.

Well, in his defense, he does play for the steAlers.  They all get a free pass.  They don't get ejected for "playing hard".  They get rewarded and praised in the national media. 

[rezolve11]

(04-05-2017, 09:30 AM)Bengalsrob Wrote: He really hasn't, but the announcers were like a defense team for Pittsburgh as soon as it happened. Curious as to whether that would be an ejection under the new rules. If it isn't, they may as well scrap that new rule; it's totally useless.

I'm pretty sure I have read that hit would now be illegal. I still couldn't believe it wasn't a flag when it happened. 

(04-05-2017, 09:44 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Well, in his defense, he does play for the steAlers.  They all get a free pass.  They don't get ejected for "playing hard".  They get rewarded and praised in the national media. 

Ain't that the truth. If the Bengals and the other team played each other exactly the same we would come out dirty and they would come out as a solid fundamental football team.

[WeezyBengal]

Agree with this post.

Gio is good because you can use him in the offense in other ways than just running the ball. We all know how good he is out of the backfield when used as a pass catcher and on screens. But like others have said how healthy is he?

My biggest thing with Hill is....what happened? I know his rookie year our offensive line was really good, but in 2015 it was pretty good as well.

I have actually watched some tape on Hill and his vision seems to be a real issue. There are times where he just doesnt see the open hole or cuts from an open hole to something that just isn't there.

Hill was a beast his rookie year then completely fell off after that. Since then, we have all been waiting for the guy we saw in 2014 to magically reappear. It just hasn't happened. Thats my biggest concern with him and im ready to cut ties.

[WeezyBengal]

(04-03-2017, 04:04 PM)sonofstat Wrote: there's so many stats ...its all in the interpretation.   I think if we did not have the obvious challenges with the OLine (Ced specifically) then there would be even more heat on the RB's.

To be honest from what my eyes saw the biggest issue with the OLine last year was pass protection.  

Even the previous season when our offense was way more productive and efficient the YPC was bad - even worse than this year i think.  

Whatever way you look at it our two feature backs have had awful/pedestrian YPC for the last 2 years.  

At least one of those years the OLine was being feted as being one of the best in the league...and the last season our 3rd choice running back came in and provided an immediate upgrade even when our OLine was being trashed.

I too like Gio..but maybe he and Hill are not the direct, forceful RB we need.   When Hill just follows Hewitt into the running lane we seem to do OK...whenever there is pause/hesitation it never works out.

I'd prefer a quality RDE but if Fournette was there at #9 i'd grab him

Running back is one of those positions where I dont think you can evaluate based solely on stats, especially if you have a bad offensive line. I think looking at tape can be really valuable when evaluating a running back......hopefully which the Bengals have already done. 

[TSwigZ]

Dream scenario is Jonathon Allen falls to us in the first and I'd take Mixon in second despite character issues

[magikod]

(04-06-2017, 04:37 AM)TSwigZ Wrote: Dream scenario is Jonathon Allen falls to us in the first and I'd take Mixon in second despite character issues

this is like best case scenario for me haha i really want mixon!!

[WeezyBengal]

(04-06-2017, 06:03 AM)magikod Wrote: this is like best case scenario for me haha i really want mixon!!

Why would you want a guy like Mixon on your team? Hes a bigger POS than Pacman. 

[PV Bengal]

(04-05-2017, 10:52 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Agree with this post.

Gio is good because you can use him in the offense in other ways than just running the ball. We all know how good he is out of the backfield when used as a pass catcher and on screens. But like others have said how healthy is he?

My biggest thing with Hill is....what happened? I know his rookie year our offensive line was really good, but in 2015 it was pretty good as well.

I have actually watched some tape on Hill and his vision seems to be a real issue. There are times where he just doesnt see the open hole or cuts from an open hole to something that just isn't there.

Hill was a beast his rookie year then completely fell off after that. Since then, we have all been waiting for the guy we saw in 2014 to magically reappear. It just hasn't happened. Thats my biggest concern with him and im ready to cut ties.

I think Hill watched too many video clips of Le'veon Bell and tried to emulate his style.

[rezolve11]

(04-06-2017, 09:32 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why would you want a guy like Mixon on your team? Hes a bigger POS than Pacman. 

How many run ins with the law has each one had? How old are each of them? What is the severity of their crimes? Did either of them apologize or face consequences for their actions? Is it possible that someone made a mistake but nobody will ever look past it because they themselves would never do such a thing?

How many crappy decisions have we all made in our teenage/young adult years?

And no, I don't support the beating of women. I think it's a horrendous thing to do. But it happened. We can't do anything about it. I'm all for a second chance. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

With Gio's injury and Hill's identity crisis we have to take a RB somewhat early. There are lots of good ones for us in this draft.

Dalvin Cook, Joe Mixon and Christian McCaffrey all fit what we need the most in my opinion. Versatile RB's that can make Defenders
miss and catch the ball out of the backfield. Both Mixon and Cook have had their off field problems but you cannot deny either one's
talent. But if i had to pick between the 3 i would go with McCaffrey honestly, the guy is the epitome of what you want in a player.

Love Fournette as well and would be all for him.

Jamal Williams out of BYU is a hard runner with deceptive speed we could get in the 3rd.

Joe Williams out of Utah is electric with great balance and explosiveness.

Foreman is an athletic freak that runs very hard but he has problems picking up the blitz.

Kamara hasn't ran for many yards and hasn't shown much in college but talent. Could be great, just don't know much.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-06-2017, 11:59 AM)rezolve11 Wrote: How many run ins with the law has each one had? How old are each of them? What is the severity of their crimes? Did either of them apologize or face consequences for their actions? Is it possible that someone made a mistake but nobody will ever look past it because they themselves would never do such a thing?

How many crappy decisions have we all made in our teenage/young adult years?

And no, I don't support the beating of women. I think it's a horrendous thing to do. But it happened. We can't do anything about it. I'm all for a second chance. 

Mixon has the one terrible mistake. Could be his only one and i bet it is. You don't make that mistake twice.

Adam has had like 14 run ins with the law. He is way worse than Mixon.