How many new parts can a unit make work?

[*Nately120*]

(04-18-2017, 11:53 AM)Au165 Wrote: We kind of did it Andy's rookie year.

Sadly, we are back to the point where going 9-7 and losing in the wild card round would be a pleasant improvement.  Ouch.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2017, 06:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I'm not so concerned for the defense.  As you said, with Billings and Minter added, the continued development of Vigil, and the emergence of WJIII, the defense should be formidable.  If they get that edge rusher to compete for time on the Right side, that will be the gravy.

A pass rusher opposite Dunlap is the missing piece no question. I see us getting this guy in the first 2 rounds.

Would love it if we could add pick #33 for AJM, we could have a great shot at another gamechanger falling out of the 1st.

(04-18-2017, 09:13 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: No doubt,

I'm not to worried with the D, at worst I think they'll be average. The offense however has both my eyebrows up ! We of course had well documented O-line woes. Our run game was nonexistent a lot and barely average the rest of the time save the Browns games. Our red-zone flat out sucked and overall we were very inconsistent. 

The O-line still scares me quite a bit ! I hope some how some way they can get it together, but I'm not holding my breath.

I like what i have been hearing about Og and Boling. Og is working his ass off and Boling will be 100% this year
unlike last year. If Andre can stay healthy, he could be an upgrade over Zeitler in the run game. Fisher has done
all that has been asked for him. Dude has been put everywhere. I think this is a big reason for why he didn't play
very good last season. They just need to put him at one position and let him go to work.

Bodine once again is the guy that i believe needs replaced the most. He won't get any better IMHO.

[THE PISTONS]

Maybe it's college schemes being more complex but it seems like players are ready to play sooner now than they were 10-15 years ago. Maybe technology and game films help too.

That said...we'll be lucky to have 1 of our players that we draft as a starter on Day 1 and a couple others playing higher snaps. We like to let guys sit for a year to learn.

The change on the offensive line worries me. In some ways I consider Ced and Fisher as new starters. Moving Smith to Guard is also a big move. Offensive line is one position that needs cohesion.

I'd be ok with plugging Fournette right in and playing him at RB from Day 1. Same with OJ Howard.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2017, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe it's college schemes being more complex but it seems like players are ready to play sooner now than they were 10-15 years ago. Maybe technology and game films help too.

That said...we'll be lucky to have 1 of our players that we draft as a starter on Day 1 and a couple others playing higher snaps. We like to let guys sit for a year to learn.

The change on the offensive line worries me. In some ways I consider Ced and Fisher as new starters. Moving Smith to Guard is also a big move. Offensive line is one position that needs cohesion.

I'd be ok with plugging Fournette right in and playing him at RB from Day 1. Same with OJ Howard.

Completely agree Pistons.

[Crowe]

(04-18-2017, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I see many people suggesting that the Bengals are going to load up on offensive weapons in the upcoming draft.  My question is, just how many new "parts" can the offensive machine put it, and run well?  As we noticed last year with the WR position, you can't always just put new bodies out there, and expect no drop-offs in production.  It takes time for people working together to understand each other's tendencies and abilities.

This year, we are not only looking to replace two spots on the OL, but now likely a starting TE, and possibly RB.  Honestly, under typical circumstances, incorporating a new RB should be relatively routine stuff, so long as he understands the offense and can pass pro.  However, this year, with new players at LT and RG, it will take extra time for things to settle into a rhythm.  At TE, you almost have to think that with the news that Eiftert isn't going to be ready, that in an effort to keep as much continuity on the field as possible, that Uzomah will start and Kroft will be 1st backup, no matter WHO they take in the draft.  Same goes with WR, they resigned Lafell for a reason, he developed continuity and consistency with Andy, and the season wore on.  Boyd and Core looked better and better the second half of the season.  I see any WR drafted having to bide his time for reps.

What are your thoughts?

It's a good thought to ponder. Personally, I think the team drafts a TE, WR, RB and at least 1 Olineman in this years draft, but I'm not sure if any are round 1, but that's all dependent on who is available when we pick. 

Me personally, I'm not drafting an offensive player in round 1 unless no defensive players I want are there. If this is the case then I'll look at 1 of the top 2 WR's in Davis/Williams. Howard might be the best TE in the draft, but I want to see more of Uzo and Kroft, besides we could get a nice mid-round TE prospect. I think people think if we get Howard that we're all of a sudden going to be running 2 TE sets. We hardly do that. As far as WR goes, we drafted Boyd who played well as the slot WR and Core who played well at the end of the season when he received snaps. I think with resigning Lafell who also played well, that the need for WR in round 1 is minimal, plus there are so many good prospects to be had in rounds 3-5. RB is also deep and I think if Mixon is there in the 2nd or 3rd that that will be the pick, I just can't justify drafting a rb at 9.

All in all, I do think we draft at least 1 from all the positions I mentioned above.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2017, 02:17 PM)Crowe Wrote: It's a good thought to ponder. Personally, I think the team drafts a TE, WR, RB and at least 1 Olineman in this years draft, but I'm not sure if any are round 1, but that's all dependent on who is available when we pick. 

Me personally, I'm not drafting an offensive player in round 1 unless no defensive players I want are there. If this is the case then I'll look at 1 of the top 2 WR's in Davis/Williams. Howard might be the best TE in the draft, but I want to see more of Uzo and Kroft, besides we could get a nice mid-round TE prospect. I think people think if we get Howard that we're all of a sudden going to be running 2 TE sets. We hardly do that. As far as WR goes, we drafted Boyd who played well as the slot WR and Core who played well at the end of the season when he received snaps. I think with resigning Lafell who also played well, that the need for WR in round 1 is minimal, plus there are so many good prospects to be had in rounds 3-5. RB is also deep and I think if Mixon is there in the 2nd or 3rd that that will be the pick, I just can't justify drafting a rb at 9.

All in all, I do think we draft at least 1 from all the positions I mentioned above.

If it's me, I keep one hand ready to answer the phone.  I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Bengals feel like pretty much everyone from 9-20 are of about the same value.  If they have a chance to move back a couple spots, gain a 2nd or 3rd round pick, or even package a couple of those 6th and 7th rounders to get another in the middle rounds, they could solidify the future for both lines as well as the offensive skill positions.

[Luvnit2]

(04-18-2017, 12:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, Andy and AJ were the new parts, as well as Jay Gruden as OC.  All of the other parts remained the same, particularly the OL, backfield, and TEs.  Meaning that all parts involved in blocking and running game were unchanged.

This year, we are looking at a 40% turnover in OL, a medium possibility of a new primary ball carrier, as well as a new TE.  Not to mention an OC in his second year at the position.  An OC that many on here weren't completely thrilled with, last season.

Sure, it can work, they can all build together.  I'm just saying don't expect no offensive juggernaut on opening day.

I was wrong and corrected on following comments.
I believe you are forgetting they also moved Whittworth from guard to LT if my old memory is correct which at time was huge unknown moving guard to LT

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2017, 07:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I believe you are forgetting they also moved Whittworth from guard to LT if my old memory is correct which at time was huge unknown moving guard to LT

False.  Whitworth played LT since '09.  He filled in, in marvelous fashion, in a good portion of '08.

[Luvnit2]

(04-19-2017, 08:12 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: False.  Whitworth played LT since '09.  He filled in, in marvelous fashion, in a good portion of '08.

My bad, I blame it on old age.

So to recap in 2011 we had a new #1 WR, a new 2nd round QB, a new OC and we had no rookie camps and rookies did not get play books on time due to CBA negotiation.

In 2017, we have veteran QB, veteran WR, tight end and running back group (Hill, Bernard and Peerman), but we are replacing a great LT, a poor RT (Ced last year), a very good OG who had a bad year in 2016.

As has been stated,the key will be can Bodine keep improving which he has done every year so far (not popular opinion I know) and can Ced and Fisher play to their draft positions in their 3rd years in the league and can Smith help euthanize the loss of Zeitler?

Big questions indeed?
Can Boyd and Core keep progressing?
Who do we draft (WR, TE or RB) capable of year one production?
Do we draft an OL capable of year one production or not needed yet due to Fisher, Ced and Andre stepping up?

On the other side of the ball, I see a defense getting Burfict back (not suspended) all year. Do we miss Peko or to we draft a replacement or is that guy already on the roster (Smith, Hardison, Sims or Billings)

Many ways other than just improve the offense to be better in 2017 so hopefully we use draft to grab some impact starters (1 or 2) thi year since we have a top 9 draft position for first time since 2011

[*Nately120*]

(04-19-2017, 06:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Bengals feel like pretty much everyone from 9-20 are of about the same value.

Hmm, you have to wonder if GM's that actually have to worry about losing their jobs hold the same view.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2017, 06:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If it's me, I keep one hand ready to answer the phone.  I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Bengals feel like pretty much everyone from 9-20 are of about the same value.  If they have a chance to move back a couple spots, gain a 2nd or 3rd round pick, or even package a couple of those 6th and 7th rounders to get another in the middle rounds, they could solidify the future for both lines as well as the offensive skill positions.

I would love it if we moved back, got a player like John Ross or McCaffrey/Mixon/Cook, picked up another 2nd rounder
then traded McCarron to the Browns for their 33rd pick and got three 2nd rounders. Give me Ross/CM/Mixon/Cook, Jordan
Willis, Elflein and Asiata in the first two rounds. Boom.

[Derrick]

(04-18-2017, 11:51 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I see many people suggesting that the Bengals are going to load up on offensive weapons in the upcoming draft.  My question is, just how many new "parts" can the offensive machine put it, and run well?  As we noticed last year with the WR position, you can't always just put new bodies out there, and expect no drop-offs in production.  It takes time for people working together to understand each other's tendencies and abilities.

This year, we are not only looking to replace two spots on the OL, but now likely a starting TE, and possibly RB.  Honestly, under typical circumstances, incorporating a new RB should be relatively routine stuff, so long as he understands the offense and can pass pro.  However, this year, with new players at LT and RG, it will take extra time for things to settle into a rhythm.  At TE, you almost have to think that with the news that Eiftert isn't going to be ready, that in an effort to keep as much continuity on the field as possible, that Uzomah will start and Kroft will be 1st backup, no matter WHO they take in the draft.  Same goes with WR, they resigned Lafell for a reason, he developed continuity and consistency with Andy, and the season wore on.  Boyd and Core looked better and better the second half of the season.  I see any WR drafted having to bide his time for reps.

What are your thoughts?

This guy would help. http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/4/23/15353628/adoree-jackson-scouting-profile-athleticism-nfl-success

[SunsetBengal]

(04-24-2017, 04:52 PM)Derrick Wrote: This guy would help. http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/4/23/15353628/adoree-jackson-scouting-profile-athleticism-nfl-success

Interesting player, aside from obvious return man and ace on 'teams, what would you see his role as?

[Derrick]

(04-24-2017, 05:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Interesting player, aside from obvious return man and ace on 'teams, what would you see his role as?

Some snaps at DB; Some snaps out of the backfield a la Gio; As you mentioned--a lot of Punt Returns and Kickoff Returns; Speed on Special Teams. Hell, maybe he can kick FGs too Certainly worth a look IMO.