Our TE's - Eifert, Kroft, Uzomah

[Shake n Blake]

In the poll ranking our TE's, 60% have voted that our TE's rank 21-32 in the league. I get that there's not much experience there, but I don't see how anyone could say that we have one of the worst groups in the NFL.

- Tyler Eifert has 482 yards in 16 games. Last year, only 18 TE's had more than 482 yards. Julius Thomas had 489 yards. Consider that Eifert posted that total as a part-time player. His snaps and production should go up. Plus he has more experience under his belt. Imo, people should be excited about Eifert.

- Tyler Kroft is a 3rd round pick with plenty of college experience both blocking and pass catching. Imo, this makes it more likely that he'll contribute early. This isn't Chase Coffman.

- CJ Uzomah's 4.63 forty time from his pro day was faster than all but 1 tight end at the combine. His broad jump of 9'10" would've placed 4th. Obviously he's raw, but he has 1st round athleticism and looks like a natural pass catcher.

Again, I get that they lack experience, but how many teams have a 1st and a 3rd invested at the position? Just based on potential and what we've seen from Eifert so far, I don't see how some could say that there's 20-31 groups out there that are better than our's. I understand if you're not ecstatic about this group, but I don't think people should be down on them either. There's a lot of talent and potential there, and I have a feeling a lot of people are going to feel better once these guys are on the field.

[Harmening]

The lack of experience definitely worries me, but we've all seen rookies come into the league and excel their first year, too.
Fingers are crossed.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-20-2015, 01:59 PM)Harmening Wrote: The lack of experience definitely worries me, but we've all seen rookies come into the league and excel their first year, too.
Fingers are crossed.

What about Eifert though? He's not a rookie and he's proven he can produce. As long as Eifert is healthy (no reason to think he won't be - he doesn't have a long injury history), we shouldn't be relying on the rookies for much. Even if we do, we have a good track record with rookie TE's recently.

[Harmening]

(07-20-2015, 02:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What about Eifert though? He's not a rookie and he's proven he can produce. As long as Eifert is healthy (no reason to think he won't be - he doesn't have a long injury history), we shouldn't be relying on the rookies for much. Even if we do, we have a good track record with rookie TE's recently.

Yeah, I'm excited to watch Eifert play.  I just hope that we can also work the others in to see what they have to provide.  Who knows, maybe one of them will wow us all.  Like you mentioned, we've had pretty good luck with them recently, and hope the trend continues.  
I really like the offenses that utilize the TE position a lot. 

[Thundercloud]

I'm with you on this, Shake. I know it's a little ridiculous to say, but that first game last year, I was immediately saying, ok, Hue Jackson is really going to make this guy a star, and then the terrible injury happened. I say ridiculous because it was such a small sample, but I couldn't help it, I was already excited.

I still think the guy is a major talent if he just stays on the field.

The rookies just have to prove it, but both have exhibited some real possibilities. No way we're in the bottom third, though.

[Benton]

There's just not much NFL level body of work to base it off of.

If you're ranking QBs heading into a season, you rank the rookie guys lower than the experienced jobbers not because they have less talent, but because they have less production. Last season, if you'd asked me who I would rather have, Teddy Bridgewater or Alex Smith, I'd go with Bridgewater even though Alex has a better resume. But I'd have to rank Smith higher at the start of the season because he's at least got something measurable.

Same with our current TEs. I think there's great potential and I'd start them over half the other teams' sets, easily, but I cant rank them in the top third or even half because there's not enough to measure.

[wolfkaosaun]

Here's a list of guys that have produced consistently and have earned a right to be ranked above Eifert IMO: Clay, Olsen, Bennett, Witten, Julius Thomas, Kelce, Cameron, Miller, Rudolph, Gronk, Celek, Gates, Cook, Graham, Davis, Walker, and Reed.

That's 17 guys right there that have proven themselves. Sure Celek had a down year and Rudolph has been injured, but both have proven they produce extremely well.

Then you have teams that have great depth and young players. Like behind Celek there is Ertz. Then you have Ebron and Pettigrew in Detroit, young stud with another quality veteran.

Baltimore they have Pitta and just drafted Maxx Williams, the highest rated tight end in this year's.

Jets have Amaro, a young, promising tight end.

We can go by what we THINK our guys are going to do, but there are a ton of proven players and young players to rival ours, and many of those players have shown they can certainly produce consistently at a high level. We don't know if Eifert and Kroft can do that.

There's not many teams with unproven talent at the tight end position once you look at it all. So it's not as crazy to believe that we're in the bottom half of the league. Inexperience does that.

[Hammerthis]

It's because none of our TEs have done anything in the NFL worthy of praise. We don't have the worst TEs in the league, but we're not too far off.

[BFritz21]

(07-20-2015, 08:00 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: It's because none of our TEs have done anything in the NFL worthy of praise. We don't have the worst TEs in the league, but we're not too far off.

We only have one tight end that has even played a down of NFL football, and it was as a rookie and then a quarter-and-a-half as a second year guy.

Eifert looked good and like he was going to be a big part of our offense, and that's not even mentioning that he'll benefit from two tight end sets, which Hue loves.

I think we could have one of the better TE groups in the league and I think that Uzomah could be a hell of a steal, which makes me wonder about down the line what we'd do if all three continue to develop into good players because we don't need three above average tight ends.

I think they COULD be a top ten group.

I don't think Uzomah was used properly by Auburn but I think he could be a hell of a steal.  I especially think that he'll be our goal line specialist because who's going to cover a dude that's 6'6, 270 on the outside?

[Shake n Blake]

(07-20-2015, 03:05 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Here's a list of guys that have produced consistently and have earned a right to be ranked above Eifert IMO: Clay, Olsen, Bennett, Witten, Julius Thomas, Kelce, Cameron, Miller, Rudolph, Gronk, Celek, Gates, Cook, Graham, Davis, Walker, and Reed.

That's 17 guys right there that have proven themselves. Sure Celek had a down year and Rudolph has been injured, but both have proven they produce extremely well.

Then you have teams that have great depth and young players. Like behind Celek there is Ertz. Then you have Ebron and Pettigrew in Detroit, young stud with another quality veteran.

Baltimore they have Pitta and just drafted Maxx Williams, the highest rated tight end in this year's.

Jets have Amaro, a young, promising tight end.

We can go by what we THINK our guys are going to do, but there are a ton of proven players and young players to rival ours, and many of those players have shown they can certainly produce consistently at a high level. We don't know if Eifert and Kroft can do that.

There's not many teams with unproven talent at the tight end position once you look at it all. So it's not as crazy to believe that we're in the bottom half of the league. Inexperience does that.

Celek had 340 yards last year and is 30 years old. His numbers have declined in 4 straight seasons, so it's fair to wonder if he's just about washed up. Again, Eifert has 482 yards in his 16 games as a part-timer. So not only does Eifert have a brighter outlook moving forward, he also has better recent numbers.

Same can be said about Kyle Rudolph and Vernon Davis. Rudolph has never produced more than 493 yards in a season, and had 231 yards in 8 games last year. Vernon Davis looked done last year with only 245 yards. The speed he had through his career looked gone.

You claim Ebron is a "young stud", but all he's done is get drafted in the first round and produce 248 yards in his rookie season. Eifert was drafted in the first round and produced 445 yards in his rookie season. Do you think he's a young stud as well? 

Dennis Pitta - from all reports - isn't likely to play this year. Maxx Williams has done less than Eifert in the NFL. 

Jace Amaro produced 345 yards in his rookie season. That's 100 yards less than Eifert, and you seem like you're impressed with Amaro. 

Tbh, I have Eifert as a middle of the pack TE based on past production. As for the inexperience behind him, not many teams have 2 experienced quality TE's on their roster. Who do the Steelers have behind Heath Miller? Who do the Ravens have behind Maxx Williams (a rookie)? Who do the Browns have behind Rob Housler? Who do the Seahawks have behind Graham? Who is behind Gronk? Who is behind Cameron for the Dolphins? 

If you actually look at every roster in the NFL, there really aren't many teams that have a high quality experienced backup.

(07-20-2015, 08:00 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: It's because none of our TEs have done anything in the NFL worthy of praise. We don't have the worst TEs in the league, but we're not too far off.

I remember a lot of folks praising Gresham's rookie season, when he had 471 yards. Yet people blow off Eifert's 445 yards as if it was nothing. 

[EatonFan]

(07-20-2015, 11:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Celek had 340 yards last year and is 30 years old. His numbers have declined in 4 straight seasons, so it's fair to wonder if he's just about washed up. Again, Eifert has 482 yards in his 16 games as a part-timer. So not only does Eifert have a brighter outlook moving forward, he also has better recent numbers.

Same can be said about Kyle Rudolph and Vernon Davis. Rudolph has never produced more than 493 yards in a season, and had 231 yards in 8 games last year. Vernon Davis looked done last year with only 245 yards. The speed he had through his career looked gone.

You claim Ebron is a "young stud", but all he's done is get drafted in the first round and produce 248 yards in his rookie season. Eifert was drafted in the first round and produced 445 yards in his rookie season. Do you think he's a young stud as well? 

Dennis Pitta - from all reports - isn't likely to play this year. Maxx Williams has done less than Eifert in the NFL. 

Jace Amaro produced 345 yards in his rookie season. That's 100 yards less than Eifert, and you seem like you're impressed with Amaro. 

Tbh, I have Eifert as a middle of the pack TE based on past production. As for the inexperience behind him, not many teams have 2 experienced quality TE's on their roster. Who do the Steelers have behind Heath Miller? Who do the Ravens have behind Maxx Williams (a rookie)? Who do the Browns have behind Rob Housler? Who do the Seahawks have behind Graham? Who is behind Gronk? Who is behind Cameron for the Dolphins? 

If you actually look at every roster in the NFL, there really aren't many teams that have a high quality experienced backup.

I remember a lot of folks praising Gresham's rookie season, when he had 471 yards. Yet people blow off Eifert's 445 yards as if it was nothing. 

I just keep going back to Housh's comments at OTAs about Eifert.  We need this group to stay healthy and use their talents.  If they can just block well in the running game that would be a huge plus.  Any offense they can generate is just one more headache for the D.

[J24]

I am just not comfortable with having two rookies as the only backups.

[CornerBlitz]

Effect if healthy will be in the pro-bowl. You heard it first here. He's the perfect weapon for a QB like Dalton. You could tell that first game last season that they were clicking and he was going to be a big part of the offense. It's too bad he got hurt.

You guys are underestimating his talent level. There was a reason why he was clearly the best TE in that draft and he will prove it i believe this season.

[Benton]

(07-21-2015, 12:55 AM)J24 Wrote: I am just not comfortable with having two rookies as the only backups.

I am.

I have no idea how our talent ranks against guys who are proven. But we have done an outstanding job of finding young talent the last 5-6 years. We may not utilize our rookies as much as some teams, but we have a good recent record with young players stepping up.

[BFritz21]

(07-21-2015, 12:07 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I just keep going back to Housh's comments at OTAs about Eifert.  We need this group to stay healthy and use their talents.  If they can just block well in the running game that would be a huge plus.  Any offense they can generate is just one more headache for the D.

I don't even think they need to block too well because, playing tight end, we're not going to run too many sweeps or runs overtop of them where they need to drive block; it's just more a matter of shielding a defender off while Hill explodes through the line.

(07-21-2015, 12:55 AM)J24 Wrote: I am just not comfortable with having two rookies as the only backups.

Then you'll probably be even more uncomfortable in the season because Hue LOVES two tight end sets, so I'm pretty sure that that will be a staple of our offense this season.

They'll both be ready when called on and their both great players.  Tight end (in the receiving aspect) is probably one of the easiest transitions from college to the NFL.

(07-21-2015, 01:40 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Effect if healthy will be in the pro-bowl. You heard it first here. He's the perfect weapon for a QB like Dalton.  You could tell that first game last season that they were clicking and he was going to be a big part of the offense. It's too bad he got hurt.

You guys are underestimating his talent level. There was a reason why he was clearly the best TE in that draft and he will prove it i believe this season.

I agree.

Eifert is a machine as a receiving tight end.  I just hope that we use him and Kroft/Uzomah properly (coughcoughUPTHESEAMScoughcough).

[J24]

(07-21-2015, 01:44 AM)Benton Wrote: I am.

I have no idea how our talent ranks against guys who are proven. But we have done an outstanding job of finding young talent the last 5-6 years. We may not utilize our rookies as much as some teams, but we have a good recent record with young players stepping up.

I have no doubts that they can be good eventually but at the same time there rookies so there going to make their fair share of mistakes. Would rather have gone into the season with at least one proven veteran outside of Eifert at that position.

[MrRager]

(07-21-2015, 02:48 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: They'll both be ready when called on and their both great players.  Tight end (in the receiving aspect) is probably one of the easiest transitions from college to the NFL.

Wha....What? I just explained how untrue this is in another thread. Being worried about only having rookie backups (or even worse, one starter) is very reasonable for the TE position. Zero players in the last five years have gained 600 yards. Only four have gained 500. Two of those were the great Pats duo, helped schemed by one of the best QBs ever, best coaches ever, and a very good offensive mind in Bill O'Brian. 

How exactly is that one of the easiest transitions? WR has proven to be much easier. Hell, look at AJ and like the 10 great rookie seasons last year. 

Expecting anything more than ~400 yards from either of these guys is putting way to much hope in these rookies. Maybe they can be the rare ones to break the mold, but I highly doubt they will be. Kroft didn't even have 300 yards his last year in college and didn't even reach 600 in his best year. You expect him to produce more in his first NFL season? Why? 

Also, don't just say SEAMS SEAMS, like you're somehow the only person in the world who has thought of wonderful scheme. Look at the Lions last year. They drafted a very talented TE in the first to pair with their solid, but not incredible stable of TEs. They even had a guy better than AJ to draw double coverage, and Tate to take even more, yet somehow Ebron didn't produce. 

Why don't Celek and Ertz dominate the game? The Eagles had a very good #1 in Maclin/Jackson, a great line, good QB play in '13, average in '14, and a good rushing attack. Why oh why hasn't Kelly just figured out how to "run them up the SEAMZ!"

Fleener and Allen are one of the best duos I can think of off the top of my head, and they still only produced around 1,200 yards. Allen didn't even have 400.

If only those coaches, and literally every single other coach in NFL history (besides the 2011 Pats) could think of this amazing plan, then maybe we would actually see the two TE system work and TEs produce in year one. But, damn, only Bradfitz has figured out this secret. 

Or maybe, football is extremely complex and simple ideas don't really work in football. Defensive coordinators are also masterminds that figure out how to slow these simple concepts down. I love football, but can easily see how much of the game is miles over my head.

I think we will be fine this year, but having practically nothing behind Eifert scares me, especially given the fact that Eifert hasn't shown very much, yet. We just need to get "enough" out of the rookies to get along this year, but think all three can be developed and we will be fine moving foward.

[CJD]

Our TEs have a lot of potential.

But almost no production.

We have had so many high potential players who never panned out, I've lost count. So it's easy to not think they'll be a top tier group, when history proved you shouldn't rely merely on potential and rookies.

I'd rank them somewhere in the 20s merely based off the fact that we have no statistical guide as to how well these guys will convert to the NFL.

That's the purpose of a projection. To look at what you know, and project what you feel they are capable of based on what you know about them.

We know so little about our TEs, it'd be hard to rate them any higher than 20th or so.

[masonbengals fan]

They have to be able to stay on the field & produce before they will deserve a higher ranking. Potential doesn't mean anything until you perform up to those expectations.

[djs7685]

Crazyjdawg pretty much hit everything and summed it up quite nicely.

I don't see the issue ranking them low until we see what we actually have in them.

Potential and everything is nice, but you're not going to see me rank Jameis Winston, Blake Bortles, or even Teddy Bridgewater over guys like Dalton, Stafford, and Kaepernick, so how could I possibly rank Eifert and 2 rookies over groups that have proven that they're at least solid NFL players? Ranking a group of 3 players where 1 of them spent a season as a TE2 and the next season injured with 2 rookies somewhere in the 20's isn't really an insult at this point of their careers.

I understand this is a Bengals board so there will be some homerism here and there, but our TEs in the 20's is definitely fair.