Comparing Front Office Sizes in the AFC North

[THE PISTONS]

(09-20-2017, 02:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. So our tiny scouting and personnel departments don't matter. No practice facility doesn't matter. The Bengals are correct in avoiding free agency and building through the draft. They are supposedly excellent at drafting. 

So why haven't we won a playoff game since 1990?

Yes - People cite they we made the playoffs 5 out of 6 years. Soon to be 5 out of 7 years as success. Well most of our core is gone and the rest are gaining. With Atkins and Green pushing 30 it's going to be on the scouting to draft impact players and they're whiffing on picks.

As far as the playoff years...scouting did contribute to the losses. Through those runs we've NEVER had a good Center or a LB that could cover TE's. In the playoffs teams exploit weaknesses ruthlessly.

We've lived off of 2 GREAT drafts with Dalton/Green and Atkins/Dunlap...but that window is closing.

[muskiesfan]

(09-20-2017, 01:25 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: And yet miraculously they have a top 5 record since Dalton took over as QB

Funny how that stat is used to defend our horrible inadequate scouting department, but fans boo Dalton and want to start McCarron over him. I'm not directing this at you, it just blows my mind that fans want to throw away their franchise QB. Dalton's body of work deserves so much better than the fans he plays for.

[THE PISTONS]

I guess it all depends on what we define success as.

There are some fans that are just happy to not be 3-13 every year.

Other fans are happy with making the playoffs and losing in the 1st Round.

Other fans want a championship or atleast a Super Bowl appearance as 23 teams have played in a Super Bowl since we last won a playoff game.

Following the Bengals through the dismal 90's has beaten a lot of fans down to the point where they accept mediocrity.

[muskiesfan]

(09-20-2017, 04:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I guess it all depends on what we define success as.

There are some fans that are just happy to not be 3-13 every year.

Other fans are happy with making the playoffs and losing in the 1st Round.

Other fans want a championship or atleast a Super Bowl appearance as 23 teams have played in a Super Bowl since we last won a playoff game.

Following the Bengals through the dismal 90's has beaten a lot of fans down to the point where they accept mediocrity.

While I won't argue that all of us are starved for postseason success, Dalton has certainly been a successful NFL QB. He's set or is close to setting all of the team's all-time passing records. He's already set plenty of single season team records.

That's not saying he doesn't need to perform better, it's simply that he's been undervalued and underappreciated by Bengals fans. He always gets blamed for not performing better with some of the best weapons in the NFL, but outside of AJ Green I have no idea who these top tier talented players are. When he has had protection, Dalton has played well and elevated the play of his weapons (besides Green) though no one gives him credit for it. Now that his protection is questionable, his play has dropped and it has dropped the play of those around him.

I believe a new OC is going to help some, but the team has to improve the OLine or they need to suddenly learn how to block at the NFL level.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-20-2017, 06:22 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: While I won't argue that all of us are starved for postseason success, Dalton has certainly been a successful NFL QB. He's set or is close to setting all of the team's all-time passing records. He's already set plenty of single season team records.

That's not saying he doesn't need to perform better, it's simply that he's been undervalued and underappreciated by Bengals fans. He always gets blamed for not performing better with some of the best weapons in the NFL, but outside of AJ Green I have no idea who these top tier talented players are. When he has had protection, Dalton has played well and elevated the play of his weapons (besides Green) though no one gives him credit for it. Now that his protection is questionable, his play has dropped and it has dropped the play of those around him.

I believe a new OC is going to help some, but the team has to improve the OLine or they need to suddenly learn how to block at the NFL level.

Dude...setting team records are meaningless anymore. The NFL changed rules some 15 years ago to make it a more passing friendly league. Dalton's stats are also better than Troy Aikmans...

Yet Dalton is somewhere around the 12-16th best QB when he's having a good year.

It's all relative.

The shortest path to winning in the playoffs is a Top 5-10 QB. Dalton is not that at his best.

[muskiesfan]

(09-20-2017, 08:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dude...setting team records are meaningless anymore. The NFL changed rules some 15 years ago to make it a more passing friendly league. Dalton's stats are also better than Troy Aikmans...

Yet Dalton is somewhere around the 12-16th best QB when he's having a good year.

It's all relative.

The shortest path to winning in the playoffs is a Top 5-10 QB. Dalton is not that at his best.

I understand the game has changed, but that doesn't take away from what he's done. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the league, but he's going to go down as the best QB the Bengals have had. Even top 12-16 is better than half the league.

The game has changed argument gets little old though. Again, I'm not saying he's top tier, but it's not like every QB in the league matches his production. The Dalton Line that the media made up is a joke. He's definitely a top half of the league QB. He hasn't played like it so far this season, but his career suggests that he will get better.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-20-2017, 08:43 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I understand the game has changed, but that doesn't take away from what he's done. I'm not saying he's the best QB in the league, but he's going to go down as the best QB the Bengals have had. Even top 12-16 is better than half the league.

The game has changed argument gets little old though. Again, I'm not saying he's top tier, but it's not like every QB in the league matches his production. The Dalton Line that the media made up is a joke. He's definitely a top half of the league QB. He hasn't played like it so far this season, but his career suggests that he will get better.

I'm not so sure about that. Boomer and Anderson are still better.

He's top 12-16 at his absolute best. When he has a good offensive line and a great receiver in AJ Green.

When he doesn't have that line, he's terrible like this year.

Is Top half of the league QB great? Basically he's the Marvin Lewis of QB's.

[BengalChris]

(09-20-2017, 02:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. People site the Browns for personnel and the Redskins for free agency. The 2 absolute worst.

They cleverly avoid that the Steelers and Ravens have won multiple Super Bowls over the past 20 years because it goes against their point of the Bengals doing things right.

Obviously with 26 years of playoff failure...things aren't alright.

Yeah, things are not alright in Bengalsland.

The playoff victory drought started with Mike Brown naming himself GM and it's continued ever since.

[Beaker]

(09-20-2017, 02:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So why haven't we won a playoff game since 1990?

Fan negativity.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-20-2017, 09:39 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, things are not alright in Bengalsland.

The playoff victory drought started with Mike Brown naming himself GM and it's continued ever since.

Some people will never admit that the team they follow does some things inferior to other teams. No matter how many years we go without a playoff win...people will cling to any shred of success we have. Albeit 0-7 in the playoffs.

It's called an ego investment.

They'll compare us to bottom dwellers like the Browns and say we're better. They'll ignore the fact that the Steelers have 6 Super Bowl wins. They'll also ignore the fact that the Steelers have won around 20 playoff game since we last won 1. After all...we've made the playoffs 5 out of the past 6 years!

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Take away the 90's which we were totally incompetent. I'm not disputing this. We have had some really bad luck with the Dalton and Palmer injuries. players imploding at the worst possible time (our last playoff loss). fumbled snap on a extra point attempt. missed field goal against Steelers that could have clinched a playoff birth. crippling injuries. tragic deaths. For those of you saying things never change. Have we ever fired a coordinator 2 games into the season before? the 90's version of Mike Brown would have never done this. besides for Pac man we have reallly not had too many problems with guys doing stupid shit of the field anymore.

[Hoofhearted]

(09-20-2017, 10:49 PM)Beaker Wrote: Fan negativity.

Please elaborate. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-21-2017, 11:04 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Take away the 90's which we were totally incompetent. I'm not disputing this. We have had some really bad luck with the Dalton and Palmer injuries. players imploding at the worst possible time (our last playoff loss). fumbled snap on a extra point attempt. missed field goal against Steelers that could have clinched a playoff birth.  crippling injuries. tragic deaths. For those of you saying things never change. Have we ever fired a coordinator 2 games into the season before? the 90's version of Mike Brown would have never done this. besides for Pac man we have reallly not had too many problems with guys doing stupid shit of the field anymore.

You don't fail to win a playoff game for 26 years due to 'bad luck'.

The Dalton injury is irrelevant too. This team finds a way to lose. Whether it's a Hill fumble. 2 Personal Fouls. The defense imploding. Dalton throwing an interception to Watt.

While Dalton was injured for the Bengals...I believe the Steelers were without Bell. RB's off the street come in and destroy us in the playoffs in his place. Not luck.

Other teams have injuries too. This team folds when pressure is on. Just look at the primetime record.

As far as guys doing stupid things on the field...Burfict has personal fouls at bad times too. People like him so they ignore it.

It's not luck though. It's organizational culture. They're not mentally tough. You develop that in practice.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-20-2017, 02:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes - People cite they we made the playoffs 5 out of 6 years. Soon to be 5 out of 7 years as success. Well most of our core is gone and the rest are gaining. With Atkins and Green pushing 30 it's going to be on the scouting to draft impact players and they're whiffing on picks.

As far as the playoff years...scouting did contribute to the losses. Through those runs we've NEVER had a good Center or a LB that could cover TE's. In the playoffs teams exploit weaknesses ruthlessly.

We've lived off of 2 GREAT drafts with Dalton/Green and Atkins/Dunlap...but that window is closing.

Troof. We've had a lot of crappy drafts since then. It's starting to show.

(09-20-2017, 10:49 PM)Beaker Wrote: Fan negativity.

The Falcons had a fluky SB run last year. Do you credit their fans for suddenly having positive vibes? C'mon man.

The Falcons went to the big game because they finally found the right combo of coaching and players. They're better run than the Bengals. 

It has nothing to do with fans. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Fans become positive when teams provide reason to be positive.

Just to humor you, I'll provide an example. I'm positive that the entire fanbase was celebrating a win when Burfict got the INT vs the Steelers. We still lost.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-20-2017, 09:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He's top 12-16 at his absolute best. When he has a good offensive line and a great receiver in AJ Green.

When he doesn't have that line, he's terrible like this year.

Last year, Dalton's stats were: 364 comp 563 att 64.7% 4,206 yards 18 TDs 8 INTs. So you consider that terrible? Or are you sayinig we had a good offensive line last year?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-21-2017, 01:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Last year, Dalton's stats were: 364 comp 563 att 64.7% 4,206 yards 18 TDs 8 INTs. So you consider that terrible? Or are you sayinig we had a good offensive line last year?

Nice strawman. State something I didn't say then refute it.

I said at his best he's a top 12-16 QB. His numbers last year are those of a Top 12-16 QB. Above Average but not good or great. Good QB's throw more than 18 TD's.

Without an offensive line...like this year...he's a TERRIBLE QB...who has yet to throw a TD in 2 games and threw 4 int's in Game 1...all 4 of which coming with a clean pocket.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-21-2017, 04:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Nice strawman. State something I didn't say then refute it.

I said at his best he's a top 12-16 QB. His numbers last year are those of a Top 12-16 QB. Above Average but not good or great. Good QB's throw more than 18 TD's.

Without an offensive line...like this year...he's a TERRIBLE QB...who has yet to throw a TD in 2 games and threw 4 int's in Game 1...all 4 of which coming with a clean pocket.

Not a strawman. You said when he doesn't have a good offensive line he's terrible:

(09-20-2017, 09:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When he doesn't have that line, he's terrible like this year.

Heck, you're saying it again: Without an offensive line...like this year...he's a TERRIBLE QB.

Last year, he did not have a good offensive line. Yet, he wasn't terrible. So, you're either wrong about Dalton or you believe our offensive line was good last year.

[*Nately120*]

(09-20-2017, 08:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dude...setting team records are meaningless anymore. The NFL changed rules some 15 years ago to make it a more passing friendly league. Dalton's stats are also better than Troy Aikmans...

Yet Dalton is somewhere around the 12-16th best QB when he's having a good year.

It's all relative.

The shortest path to winning in the playoffs is a Top 5-10 QB. Dalton is not that at his best.

Right, Dalton is about to break Palmer's yardage record here while Palmer is about to pass up Kurt Warner in Arizona so la de dah.  Both of those guys had seasons that were legitimate elite-level and good enough to make a playoff run as Bengals, but bad luck injuries ruined that single year and our front office and overall disinterest in winning ensured the small window shut soon after.

We've seen talent come and go since Mike Brown took over and go figure our unappealing and intentionally understaffed organization can't quite seem to magically amass the absurd amount of talent it would take to succeed at the highest level.  Seriously, how much faith can we have in Mike Brown being able to assemble a team amazing enough to succeed despite having Mike Brown as an owner?

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2017, 04:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I guess it all depends on what we define success as.

There are some fans that are just happy to not be 3-13 every year.

Other fans are happy with making the playoffs and losing in the 1st Round.

Other fans want a championship or atleast a Super Bowl appearance as 23 teams have played in a Super Bowl since we last won a playoff game.

Following the Bengals through the dismal 90's has beaten a lot of fans down to the point where they accept mediocrity.

Those fans are members of the Brown family

[grampahol]

Wash rinse repeat..
Washington Generals=Cincinnati Bengals. 
It's a team designed to be beaten and not to win. It has nothing to do with the Brown family, coaching, etc., and everything to do with the league structure of having a consistent door mat to lose to the real money makers of the league, big market teams and they occasionally switch places, but not often enough. 
Does anyone think that the Washington Generals ever have a legitimate shot at beating the Harlem Globe Trotters any more than the Bengals having a legitimate shot at winning the SB? Of course not..