Wasn't a fan. With draft grades!

[Gdale_Bengal]

Let's just make something clear. #9 was NOT a bpa situation. If we went BPA we would have Johnathan Allen, Malik Hooker, or Lattimore on this team right now. All 3 were rated higher than Ross, and the Bengals selected John Ross. That pick was a "I'm in love with this guy" pick.

It would not have mattered if Solomon Thomas, Leonard Fournette, Or Mike Williams was still on the board, the Bengals were going to take John Ross the whole time.

I'm still OK with the pick. I'm not saying that he's not going to be a good fit here in Cincy. I'm just saying that there were better talents available at 9.

[Au165]

(05-01-2017, 05:38 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Let's just make something clear. #9 was NOT a bpa situation. If we went BPA we would have Johnathan Allen, Malik Hooker, or Lattimore on this team right now. All 3 were rated higher than Ross, and the Bengals selected John Ross. That pick was a "I'm in love with this guy" pick.

It would not have mattered if Solomon Thomas, Leonard Fournette, Or Mike Williams was still on the board, the Bengals were going to take John Ross the whole time.

I'm still OK with the pick. I'm not saying that he's not going to be a good fit here in Cincy. I'm just saying that there were better talents available at 9.

Actually Lapham said Thomas was one of the few guys who would have kept us from taking Ross. You say Allen was better but he slid to 17 for a reason, same with Hooker. It really is all relative, I wonder if the medicals on both those guys didn't come out as favorable to us as Ross.

[Luvnit2]

(05-01-2017, 05:38 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Let's just make something clear. #9 was NOT a bpa situation. If we went BPA we would have Johnathan Allen, Malik Hooker, or Lattimore on this team right now. All 3 were rated higher than Ross, and the Bengals selected John Ross. That pick was a "I'm in love with this guy" pick.

It would not have mattered if Solomon Thomas, Leonard Fournette, Or Mike Williams was still on the board, the Bengals were going to take John Ross the whole time.

I'm still OK with the pick. I'm not saying that he's not going to be a good fit here in Cincy. I'm just saying that there were better talents available at 9.

I think you are giving too much credit to draft experts. You are wrong, Ross was the Bengals BPA at 9 or they would have drafted the media's pick which BTW other teams also passed on as these guys were not picked #10, #11 or #12 in the draft, some fell 10 spots so maybe the media and you had it wrong.

The Bengals don't consult fans or the media when putting their board together. Their board, BPA in their eyes, if not they don't draft him

[Shake n Blake]

(05-01-2017, 05:38 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Let's just make something clear. #9 was NOT a bpa situation. If we went BPA we would have Johnathan Allen, Malik Hooker, or Lattimore on this team right now. All 3 were rated higher than Ross, and the Bengals selected John Ross. That pick was a "I'm in love with this guy" pick.

It would not have mattered if Solomon Thomas, Leonard Fournette, Or Mike Williams was still on the board, the Bengals were going to take John Ross the whole time.

I'm still OK with the pick. I'm not saying that he's not going to be a good fit here in Cincy. I'm just saying that there were better talents available at 9.

According to whom? Mock drafts?

Obviously mock drafts were wrong about a lot of players (especially Alabama players) as they always are. 

Haason Reddick went 13th to the Cardinals while Reuben Foster (most commonly mocked to us at #9) "fell" to 31st. 

Who was right? Mock drafts, or the guys actually doing the real thing?

[Gdale_Bengal]

(05-01-2017, 05:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think you are giving too much credit to draft experts. You are wrong, Ross was the Bengals BPA at 9 or they would have drafted the media's pick which BTW other teams also passed on as these guys were not picked #10, #11 or #12 in the draft, some fell 10 spots so maybe the media and you had it wrong.

The Bengals don't consult fans or the media when putting their board together. Their board, BPA in their eyes, if not they don't draft him

(05-01-2017, 05:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: According to whom? Mock drafts?

Obviously mock drafts were wrong about a lot of players (especially Alabama players) as they always are. 

Haason Reddick went 13th to the Cardinals while Reuben Foster (most commonly mocked to us at #9) "fell" to 31st. 

Who was right? Mock drafts, or the guys actually doing the real thing?

Well, no, I'm not actually wrong, you aren't actually right. The Bengals may not be right, because no one will know until about 5 years down the road when we see articles about re-picking this draft class and who stuck in the league, who's dominating at there position, and who isn't even active on a roster. 

And I think almost every team gets there first round wrong, because they don't know what's going to happen to a player. They look for the players that are at the top of there position, pick a guy that fits a need or bpa and hope they don't go Ryan Leaf on them or get hit by a plane.

That honestly is my opinion about the first round. "hey, that guy's good! Let's draft one of these guys if they are there! Yay, we got'em! OH GOD HERE COMES BILL ROMANOWSKI!"

[Luvnit2]

(05-01-2017, 06:20 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Well, no, I'm not actually wrong, you aren't actually right. The Bengals may not be right, because no one will know until about 5 years down the road when we see articles about re-picking this draft class and who stuck in the league, who's dominating at there position, and who isn't even active on a roster. 

And I think almost every team gets there first round wrong, because they don't know what's going to happen to a player. They look for the players that are at the top of there position, pick a guy that fits a need or bpa and hope they don't go Ryan Leaf on them or get hit by a plane.

That honestly is my opinion about the first round. "hey, that guy's good! Let's draft one of these guys if they are there! Yay, we got'em! OH GOD HERE COMES BILL ROMANOWSKI!"

I agree we won't know if it is (guy who we already know 5 year career stats) right pick, but that was not the discussion.

You stated he was nit the Bengal's BPA which is obviously wrong. Why else would they select Ross and pass on the guys you mentioned when they had a choice? AJG is arguably our best player and the receiver group was not considered weak either so it was not a pick out of position need only either.

[Benton]

(05-01-2017, 05:38 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Let's just make something clear. #9 was NOT a bpa situation. If we went BPA we would have Johnathan Allen, Malik Hooker, or Lattimore on this team right now. All 3 were rated higher than Ross, and the Bengals selected John Ross. That pick was a "I'm in love with this guy" pick.

It would not have mattered if Solomon Thomas, Leonard Fournette, Or Mike Williams was still on the board, the Bengals were going to take John Ross the whole time.

I'm still OK with the pick. I'm not saying that he's not going to be a good fit here in Cincy. I'm just saying that there were better talents available at 9.

(05-01-2017, 06:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree we won't know if it is (guy who we already know 5 year career stats) right pick, but that was not the discussion.

You stated he was nit the Bengal's BPA which is obviously wrong. Why else would they select Ross and pass on the guys you mentioned when they had a choice? AJG is arguably our best player and the receiver group was not considered weak either so it was not a pick out of position need only either.

Well, no, Gdale didn't. He didn't say who was the Bengals' BPA...  he said we didn't take the BPA. Which is something I agree with (and I get it, many don't agree with my disagreement, and that's ok, I'm not sure why everyone gets upset when someone doesn't go with the masses).

There's a difference in the Bengals' BPA and what others consider BPA. I didn't consider Ross BPA, I thought he was a reach. Before you say someone is "obviously wrong" you've got to remember, this is all opinion based. And there's a lot of strong opinions in this thread. But none of it will come out in the wash for 3-5 years.

And, yes, I'm aware the Bengals are professionals and have a much better scouting department than me watching a handful of college games and youtube highlight videos. On the other hand... Margus Hunt.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(05-01-2017, 07:28 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, no, Gdale didn't. He didn't say who was the Bengals' BPA...  he said we didn't take the BPA. Which is something I agree with (and I get it, many don't agree with my disagreement, and that's ok, I'm not sure why everyone gets upset when someone doesn't go with the masses).

There's a difference in the Bengals' BPA and what others consider BPA. I didn't consider Ross BPA, I thought he was a reach. Before you say someone is "obviously wrong" you've got to remember, this is all opinion based. And there's a lot of strong opinions in this thread. But none of it will come out in the wash for 3-5 years.

And, yes, I'm aware the Bengals are professionals and have a much better scouting department than me watching a handful of college games and youtube highlight videos. On the other hand... Margus Hunt.

You can add a lot of first and second round names the Bengals have selected that were awful choices or turned out to be bad in some way. Akili Smith, Kenny Irons.  I think there was a guy who we selected in the 2nd one year who got shot or something and never played a snap for the Bengals. Something Weatherspoon I think.

BPA probably would have been Jonathan Allen or Reuben Foster or one of the OSU guys. 

[TSwigZ]

Draft grades not 3 years after the draft are absolutely ridiculous who cares 20% of players drafted everywhere year become NFL starters in 3 years and 50% aren't even on the team that drafted them in 4 let's just support what we have and focus on winning a playoff game

[Essex Johnson]

(05-01-2017, 07:28 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, no, Gdale didn't. He didn't say who was the Bengals' BPA...  he said we didn't take the BPA. Which is something I agree with (and I get it, many don't agree with my disagreement, and that's ok, I'm not sure why everyone gets upset when someone doesn't go with the masses).

There's a difference in the Bengals' BPA and what others consider BPA. I didn't consider Ross BPA, I thought he was a reach. Before you say someone is "obviously wrong" you've got to remember, this is all opinion based. And there's a lot of strong opinions in this thread. But none of it will come out in the wash for 3-5 years.

And, yes, I'm aware the Bengals are professionals and have a much better scouting department than me watching a handful of college games and youtube highlight videos. On the other hand... Margus Hunt.

What does this have to do with the debate.. no team is perfect with all picks, the point is they  are professionals at this game,, we are not.. also if Hunt was so bad, please tell me how the hell he is still in league since he was signed by the Colts

[Benton]

(05-01-2017, 07:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: What does this have to do with the debate.. no team is perfect with all picks, the point is they  are professionals at this game,, we are not.. also if Hunt was so bad, please tell me how the hell he is still in league since he was signed by the Colts

Agreed. That's why I don't get the love for some picks that — when questioned   —  the answer is 'don't ask, you aren't a football coach.'

And, yes, Hunt is that bad.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-01-2017, 06:20 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Well, no, I'm not actually wrong, you aren't actually right. The Bengals may not be right, because no one will know until about 5 years down the road when we see articles about re-picking this draft class and who stuck in the league, who's dominating at there position, and who isn't even active on a roster. 

And I think almost every team gets there first round wrong, because they don't know what's going to happen to a player. They look for the players that are at the top of there position, pick a guy that fits a need or bpa and hope they don't go Ryan Leaf on them or get hit by a plane.

That honestly is my opinion about the first round. "hey, that guy's good! Let's draft one of these guys if they are there! Yay, we got'em! OH GOD HERE COMES BILL ROMANOWSKI!"

We're talking about their percieved value right now though. Mock drafts were wrong about a lot of guys this year, so you really can't say "this guy was a reach" or "this guy was a steal", because ultimately...the teams doing the drafting saw it differently. 

I do agree that ultimately it's all a crap shoot and all this back and forth we're having is pointless. Ross could be a HOFer and he could also be a total bust. That goes for anybody. I loved the pick, yall didn't. I can't wait to see him in camp though.

(05-01-2017, 07:43 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: BPA probably would have been Jonathan Allen or Reuben Foster or one of the OSU guys. 

Allen went 17th and Foster went 31st. So you're saying we reached on Ross and these guys would've been better values at #9? 

Is it just me or does that make no sense? A lot of teams passed on these guys...not just the Bengals.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(05-01-2017, 07:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We're talking about their percieved value right now though. Mock drafts were wrong about a lot of guys this year, so you really can't say "this guy was a reach" or "this guy was a steal", because ultimately...the teams doing the drafting saw it differently. 

I do agree that ultimately it's all a crap shoot and all this back and forth we're having is pointless. Ross could be a HOFer and he could also be a total bust. That goes for anybody. I loved the pick, yall didn't. I can't wait to see him in camp though.


Allen went 17th and Foster went 31st. So you're saying we reached on Ross and these guys would've been better values at #9? 

Is it just me or does that make no sense? A lot of teams passed on these guys...not just the Bengals.

you're right, from 9 to 17, 7 other teams passed on Allen. Of those 7 teams that chose other players, Only the Baltimore Ravens could have went with Allen at 16, the other teams who all selected other players, filled positions of need, or who did need DL help, but chose there WEAKEST position to fill(Colts drafting Hooker) and Allen went to the Redskins, who needed DL help, so he was a need for them. 

And a lot of teams took Foster off there board because of the diluted urine sample and he has a shoulder problem. But watch his game film, he's a top 10 talent in most drafts. If everything works out, San Fran got scary at the linebacker position. Would have been fun to watch Foster with burfict and Minter this year.

And i'm fine with the Ross pick! The Bengals needed SPEED in all areas, and they got the fastest playing WR in this draft.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-01-2017, 07:53 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed. That's why I don't get the love for some picks that — when questioned   —  the answer is 'don't ask, you aren't a football coach.'

And, yes, Hunt is that bad.

i read the post, the response was in general they do know better than us not you can;t question.. .. you seemed to question almost every pic, so seemed a bit excessive .. and in the end yes coaches do know better, especially since it is their plan they are going by not yours or mine.. and if hunt is that bad.. i assume you question the colts more than the bengals

[SErebel11]

(05-01-2017, 10:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: i read the post, the response was in general they do know better than us not you can;t question.. .. you seemed to question almost every pic, so seemed a bit excessive .. and in the end yes coaches do know better, especially since it is their plan they are going by not yours or mine.. and if hunt is that bad.. i assume you question the colts more than the bengals

To be fair about the Colts signing him, there is a big difference in signing a guy to a small contract and giving him a chance to make your team and using the 53rd pick of a draft on him.

[CJD]

This thread is just proof that it's literally impossible to please everybody.

There will always be critics no matter what you do.

The guy that finds a permanent cure for cancer will be accused of putting Chemotherapy specialists out of work.

[J24]

What this draft taught me is you have to have a productive free agency period and not rely so much on the draft. Don't get me wrong I don't think you need to get the biggest pieces in free agency but you can get some good supplements in that time period. You especially can't get worse during that time period. Also not trading Macaron is going to kill us; we could have gotten a second and third for him which would have made this team better in the long run.

[BenZoo2]

(05-01-2017, 11:06 PM)J24 Wrote: What this draft taught me is you have to have a productive free agency period and not rely so much on the draft. Don't get me wrong I don't think you need to get the biggest pieces in free agency but you can get some good supplements in that time period. You especially can't get worse during that time period. Also not trading Macaron is going to kill us; we could have gotten a second and third for him which would have made this team better in the long run.

Will you please take ebenezer to school with you? There were WRs, among other positions, out there we could have signed. These team is built thru the draft. Nezer will pay his star players because he has to. When was the last "big time" we brought in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Benton]

(05-01-2017, 10:43 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This thread is just proof that it's literally impossible to please everybody.

There will always be critics no matter what you do.

The guy that finds a permanent cure for cancer will be accused of putting Chemotherapy specialists out of work.

If Marcus hunt found a cure for cancer, yes, I'd still call him a bad draft pick. Great human, bad pro football player.

[Whatever]

(05-01-2017, 08:57 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: you're right, from 9 to 17, 7 other teams passed on Allen. Of those 7 teams that chose other players, Only the Baltimore Ravens could have went with Allen at 16, the other teams who all selected other players, filled positions of need, or who did need DL help, but chose there WEAKEST position to fill(Colts drafting Hooker) and Allen went to the Redskins, who needed DL help, so he was a need for them. 

And a lot of teams took Foster off there board because of the diluted urine sample and he has a shoulder problem. But watch his game film, he's a top 10 talent in most drafts. If everything works out, San Fran got scary at the linebacker position. Would have been fun to watch Foster with burfict and Minter this year.

And i'm fine with the Ross pick! The Bengals needed SPEED in all areas, and they got the fastest playing WR in this draft.

The Eagles took a DE at 14, Derek Barnett, so Allen was not the BPA on their board, nor the top DE on their board.

Foster was ridiculously overhyped, IMO.  Even if you take away the fact that he has shoulder and concussion issues, failed his drug test at the combine,  blew up and was sent home from the combine, nobody had any workout numbers on him due to his injury, and reports of poor interviews, the guy showed poor instincts on the field and made up for it with his athletic ability because the bama DL kept blockers off of him.  Tell me a MLB with 7 sacks, no interceptions, no forced fumbles, and no fumble recoveries in his college career is worth a top 10 pick.  Foster was this year's Rey Maualuga.