Good article on MMQB this morning ....

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-03-2017, 01:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Until Dalton starts winning playoff games...he's not going to be considered an elite QB.

There were 13 QB's that passed for over 4000 yards this year.

I don't like it, but there is a lot of truth to this statement.  Piggy had a QB rating of 21 in his first Super Bowl, but his team won and now he's immortal in the media's eyes.  

Good thing, as he survived those near-death experiences with thumbgate, glovegate, the 100.4 fever that he claimed was 104....damn drama queen.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-03-2017, 03:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: There's a big gap between "considering him elite" and disrespecting the ____ out of him routinely. I don't see publications constantly ripping Stafford like that, and what the heck has that dude won? Only 11 QBs threw for 4200, and I doubt any of them dealt with as many injuries. 

AJ Green essentially missed 7 games. Eifert essentially missed 9. Gio missed 6+ and is also a top receiver. For half the season, his top WRs were LaFell (a newly added free agent) and Boyd (a rookie). That's not even getting into the o-line issues. Or the poor running.

Don't forget third OC in six years, and a rookie one at that...but Dalton isn't allowed those excuses.  

I shouldn't care what the national media says, but it does bother me.  I just hope Dalton, in the words of Lou Brown, can hang around and give them all a nice shitburger to eat.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-04-2017, 03:40 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: They got to Andy a lot last season without blitzing and with 3 men on occasion.  They are going to be bringing the heat. I hope Zamp knows this.

Ugh. You're right. Teams are going to bring the heat early to see how this patchwork line handles it.

(05-04-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Don't forget third OC in six years, and a rookie one at that...but Dalton isn't allowed those excuses.  

I shouldn't care what the national media says, but it does bother me.  I just hope Dalton, in the words of Lou Brown, can hang around and give them all a nice shitburger to eat.

I was mostly irritated that I clicked the link fully expecting a good article from MMQB on Ross/Mixon, and instead was treated to a thinly-disguised Dalton smear article regurgitating the same tired narratives about arm strength and where he was drafted. As if either of those things ever stopped Brady, Montana or Brees.

[CageTheBengal]

I think the writer is off base. Sure Dalton isn't Rodgers but he is a great QB he's just not an elite HoF QB. He's not just as good as the weapons around him. I saw time and time again in 2015 that Dalton was one of the guys making plays happen not just executing it. With his feet, his brain or his arm Dalton does make plays for this team.

Every QB needs weapons in this league even Rodgers and Brady. This idea around the NFL that QBs either make their team or the team makes their QB is old beaten to death. It's sad it has taken this long for Dalton to get an ounce of respect even from Bengals fans. How about he's just a good football player but not a freak at the QB position like we've been lucky to see in the molds of Manning, Rodgers and Brady?

We need to stop comparing every good QB to HoF QBs right off the bat like that determines their success.

[CageTheBengal]

"(Brown plays with Larry Fitzgerald, a likely Hall of Famer but no longer enough of a vertical threat to be a true No. 1.) "

So now Larry Fitzgerald isn't a true #1 because he isn't a vertical threat.

Whatever say that to his 100+ catches the last 2 seasons. This writer makes Hobson look like the man.

[bengals67]

If Dalton wins Super Bowl all the pundits will start writing about how is has grown and is now a great QB.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-04-2017, 11:53 AM)bengals67 Wrote: If Dalton wins Super Bowl all the pundits will start writing about how is has grown and is now a great QB.

Not even sure about that tbh. Nobody talks about Flacco that way. Or even Eli, and he's won 2. 

[jowczarski]

Benoit is really good at what he does.

That said, I agree with his sentiment that Dalton is not Rodgers, Roethlisberger or Brady. If I counted right, that's eight rings, 11 Super Bowls and 4 MVPs? So, what he's saying is - Andy Dalton is not "elite," right. Not a HOFer? I can roll with that. What that means is yes, he's better off with great talent around him. So is every QB. Rodgers and Brady prove how great they really are with the subpar lines and targets they've had over the years.

Anyway, I disagree that it's Bernard-Mixon right away. I think this gives Bernard more time to be 100 percent ... so it'll be Hill/Mixon early. And say what you want about Hill and his blocking (or lack thereof) - he at least knows the offense and Dalton's calls. So, at the outset, Hill is the starter. Now, we'll find out how quick Mixon can catch up and learn all that stuff. He was a decent pass blocker in college, but Donta Hightower isn't coming through the line while your QB is in the end zone at Oklahoma. So, we'll see.

The first few games are critical for Hill, IMO. Marvin is going to give him every opoortunity to keep that job. But I do think the leash will be shorter than we've usually seen with players in 2017. (You heard it here first).

[Whatever]

(05-04-2017, 11:32 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I think the writer is off base. Sure Dalton isn't Rodgers but he is a great QB he's just not an elite HoF QB. He's not just as good as the weapons around him. I saw time and time again in 2015 that Dalton was one of the guys making plays happen not just executing it. With his feet, his brain or his arm Dalton does make plays for this team.

Every QB needs weapons in this league even Rodgers and Brady. This idea around the NFL that QBs either make their team or the team makes their QB is old beaten to death. It's sad it has taken this long for Dalton to get an ounce of respect even from Bengals fans. How about he's just a good football player but not a freak at the QB position like we've been lucky to see in the molds of Manning, Rodgers and Brady?

We need to stop comparing every good QB to HoF QBs right off the bat like that determines their success.

Honestly, Dalton's perception among fans around the league isn't as bad as the media makes it out to be.  Yeah, in smack talking scenarios, no playoff wins and his poor prime time record are easy ammunition, but I've had 9'ers fans tell me that he was the best QB in his draft class.  I've had a Jets fan tell me "I would give two of my fingers on my left hand for Andy Dalton."

[grampahol]

Rule one.. Ignore the pundits.. Rule two..if the pundits write stuff that makes our guys look great then ignore rule one..
They can write stuff all day long and make all kinds of predictions and be wrong about 99% of them, but be right about one and suddenly they're a savant of football predictions..

[CageTheBengal]

(05-04-2017, 12:24 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Benoit is really good at what he does.

That said, I agree with his sentiment that Dalton is not Rodgers, Roethlisberger or Brady. If I counted right, that's eight rings, 11 Super Bowls and 4 MVPs? So, what he's saying is - Andy Dalton is not "elite," right. Not a HOFer? I can roll with that. What that means is yes, he's better off with great talent around him. So is every QB. Rodgers and Brady prove how great they really are with the subpar lines and targets they've had over the years.

Anyway, I disagree that it's Bernard-Mixon right away. I think this gives Bernard more time to be 100 percent ... so it'll be Hill/Mixon early. And say what you want about Hill and his blocking (or lack thereof) - he at least knows the offense and Dalton's calls. So, at the outset, Hill is the starter. Now, we'll find out how quick Mixon can catch up and learn all that stuff. He was a decent pass blocker in college, but Donta Hightower isn't coming through the line while your QB is in the end zone at Oklahoma. So, we'll see.

The first few games are critical for Hill, IMO. Marvin is going to give him every opoortunity to keep that job. But I do think the leash will be shorter than we've usually seen with players in 2017. (You heard it here first).

"The Bengals’ brass would never say this publicly, but they know exactly what Andy Dalton is: a cerebral QB whose arm, at its best, is good but not great. Dalton, in other words, must be your offense’s facilitator, not its playmaker. He’s not Brady, Roethlisberger or Rodgers. He can’t be asked to carry the show."

That's not what I read. He isn't just simply saying he isn't elite. He's saying that he can't make plays or lead the team without great talent. The writer said at his best he is good. Just simply good not even great and elite is a whole other dimension.

I can't recall a time when Rodgers and Brady didn't have targets. Rodgers has always had a combo of Nelson, Driver, Jennings, Finley and Cobb during his career. Rodgers has gotten knocked around some on bad lines but it's not like it was a one man show. Brady has/had Gronk, Welker, Moss, Edelman and slew of RBs and now Brandin Cooks.

Every QB needs weapons but for the Bengals it means attempting to make their QB "good" enough to make plays. Think about that. The writer is saying that without great talent surrounding Dalton the Bengals won't be good enough because Dalton isn't elite. That's ludicrous Eli Manning has won 2 Superbowls against Brady and it's not because Manning is elite or that he was surrounded by elite talent. The writer says Dalton doesn't make plays on his own and that simply isn't true. This isn't Josh McCown or Fitzpatrick we are talking about here.

Rings are a team accomplishment there isn't one QB in the NFL that earned his ring on his own. Big Ben relied on a stout defense and Jerome Bettis for his first ring but the team part gets excluded when we talk about QBs as individuals as if winning the Superbowl is a solo accomplishment. It's not a feather in an individuals cap it's a feather for the team and the organization as whole.

The writer doesn't even seem to know Dalton was drafted in 2011 even after just stating it.

"And so to win with Dalton, the 35th overall pick in 2011, you need a dynamic supporting cast. The Bengals have been providing just that. Every year since 2006, they’ve used at least one of their first two draft picks on an offensive player—and such picks came no later than the second round."

Sorry but his opinion is invalid in my eyes if he can't even back his statement up with facts that are relevant.

[Yogo]

So.... he's saying we have Alex Smith? I bet half the teams out there would love to have Andy as their QB. When there are a lot of injuries to your weapons, and still try to find ways to be competitive, that is a good QB. I think Andy and Phillip Rivers did great with whatever was left to them last year.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-04-2017, 12:24 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Benoit is really good at what he does.

That said, I agree with his sentiment that Dalton is not Rodgers, Roethlisberger or Brady. If I counted right, that's eight rings, 11 Super Bowls and 4 MVPs? So, what he's saying is - Andy Dalton is not "elite," right. Not a HOFer? I can roll with that. What that means is yes, he's better off with great talent around him. So is every QB. Rodgers and Brady prove how great they really are with the subpar lines and targets they've had over the years.

I don't think you'll find a person on here that thinks Dalton is on the level as those 3...but 29 teams have starting QB's not named Brady, Rodgers or Ben (who I think is lucky to be mentioned with these 2). So why make that the emphasis for this story? All QBs (even the elite 3 he mentioned) need talent and good coaching around them. It really has nothing to do with Andy's arm (which is good enough), where he was drafted (Carr, Preskott, Brees and Brady were all taken later), or his ability to lead a team. 

Why make the narrative that Dalton essentially needs to be propped up by talent around him? If it were any other QB, they would just be calling it what it is: surrounding a good QB with quality pieces to help him be successful. All teams try to do the same. Btw, I haven't seen the national media call out the Bengals line (or failure to address it during the offseason) the way they have for Russell Wilson... or Andrew Luck in the past.

[snowy]

jowczarski Wrote:... But I do think the leash will be shorter than we've usually seen with players in 2017. (You heard it here first).

Snipped a bunch of other good stuff, but the short leash statement did my heart good. I hope they learned their lesson about farting around way too long to fix something that clearly isn't working. The biggest intangible need for the Bengals is holding players accountable. This should also be extended to coaching and front office staff.

[bengalhoel]

(05-03-2017, 03:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: You mean those 41 sacks?  Mere child's play.....

I agree....for the life of me, I'll never understand the ridicule.

I do. Its because Andy Dalton is a good guy and doesn't respond. 

The media is full of nerds who like to bully people like that. They know they can insult our players and nobody in the media will defend the Bengals or even care. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-04-2017, 08:41 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I thought Andy Benoit wrote the article?

Either way, it does seem like lazy journalism.

You could be right.....I just saw MMQB and associated it with Peter King.

[West Union KennyG]

(05-03-2017, 11:46 AM)Shady Wrote: Journalism's dead pretty much across the board. It's no different in sports reporting. Fluff and hate seem like the only options. Knowledge and facts are passe. 

Nobody can get past that Thursday night game against the Browns three years ago when they write an article about Dalton. Even though other great QBs have had games like that, until he wins The Super Bowl this year :) - no respect.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-04-2017, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Don't forget third OC in six years, and a rookie one at that...but Dalton isn't allowed those excuses.  

I shouldn't care what the national media says, but it does bother me.  I just hope Dalton, in the words of Lou Brown, can hang around and give them all a nice shitburger to eat.

"Hell with the curveball Ricky! Give him the heater!"

[*ochocincos*]

(05-04-2017, 10:32 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ugh. You're right. Teams are going to bring the heat early to see how this patchwork line handles it.


I was mostly irritated that I clicked the link fully expecting a good article from MMQB on Ross/Mixon, and instead was treated to a thinly-disguised Dalton smear article regurgitating the same tired narratives about arm strength and where he was drafted. As if either of those things ever stopped Brady, Montana or Brees.

While Dalton has not been a Top 5 QB, what do these media guys expect? Who should have been taken in 2011 instead of Dalton? The only QB better than Dalton from the 2011 class has been Newton, who went #1 overall. They could have taken Kaepernick instead of Dalton but Kaepernick only had about two decent seasons and is now out of the league. Some might blame that on him not standing for the National Anthem, but he was already regressing as a QB before the National Anthem decision.

The media shouldn't say the Bengals should have taken Russell Wilson in 2012 because Dalton had a solid rookie season and took a team to the playoffs that many believed would win maybe two games.

The media shouldn't say the Bengals should have taken Derek Carr when Andy just came off nearly a 4300 passing yard, 33 passing TD season. He was clearly showing signs of further improvement by that point.

The media shouldn't say the Bengals should have taken Dak Prescott because he was not projected to be near the kind of QB he showed last year.

Sorry, media. The fact is finding a very good QB is extremely difficult and many teams continue to be in a QB carousel because of it. Many teams would kill to have the QB situation the Bengals have.

[West Union KennyG]

(05-04-2017, 11:53 AM)bengals67 Wrote: If Dalton wins Super Bowl all the pundits will start writing about how is has grown and is now a great QB.

Exactly... so we have to wait until February 2018 for the news to change :)