Thus would be a perfect year for Wyche to help out Zamp.g

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2017, 05:30 PM)Wyche Wrote: As for your boy Paulie....that had more to do with flipping your logic.

1.  Paul is not "my" boy.  I am not the one who has him in my avatar and brings him up in every thread about every topic.

2.  As for "flipping my logic", there is no way possible you can compare a guy keeping his job for 20 years to a guy who has not been able to get a sniff of an NFL job in over a decade.  They have nothing in common.  It is good to keep a job as long as Monte Kiffen did.  It is bad to not be able to get a job.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 05:53 PM)firstand10 Wrote:
I agree Sam has forgotten more football than chimpanzee! I also remember Sam starting the no-huddle offense. The Buffalo Bills coach didn't like it and threatened to file a formal protest with the league! Then after Sam left they were one of the first to start using it!

LOL....yeah he said something like we were running the no huddle two years before Buffalo invented it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-09-2017, 06:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Paul is not "my" boy.  I am not the one who has him in my avatar and brings him up in every thread about every topic.

2.  As for "flipping my logic", there is no way possible you can compare a guy keeping his job for 20 years to a guy who has not been able to get a sniff of an NFL job in over a decade.  They have nothing in common.  It is good to keep a job as long as Monte Kiffen did.  It is bad to not be able to get a job.

Sheesh Francis, lighten up, it was a joke.

This is a pretty lighthearted thread.  Don't get so bent out of shape when someone has a differing opinion.....and I just came to offer some info of what Sam is up to these days, and that I thought he may provide another set of eyes that could be beneficial.  I mean, they brought back Bratkowski in a consultant role, I'd rather have an outside of the box thinker in that role to offer up any suggestions.  It's no secret I'm not sold on Zamp, but I have stated that with the horrendous play up front, and key injuries, it's hard to gauge his performance based on 2016.  I'm not advocating a replacement, but the more minds on anything in life, the better.

[impactplaya]

I felt in 2016 Zampese called plays a bit too safely.
His formations tipped off where the play was designed to.
The defenses dictated to him what to call instead of the other way around it seemed
Zampese rarely from what I saw ran up tempo or any kind of misdirection
And when a defense was too aggressive Zampese never used that aggressivess against them.
I think another set of eyes would help him.
I wasn't impressed with his play calling on GameDay .
Yeah he to deal with injuries.
So does the Pats Packers.

[3wt]

(05-08-2017, 02:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: Except.....I don't recall anyone saying he would be leading the offense....thought we were just talking about consulting....also, there are exceptions to every rule.  I'm telling you right now, Dick LeBeau was, and is a successful DC in his 70's as is Monte Kiffin.

The fact remains, 20 some odd years later, they are still using A LOT of the things he came up with.  Stop selling the guy short.  He's probably forgotten more about football innovation than Mediocre Marv and His Merry Band of Tenured Bums will ever know.....mainly, winning postseason football. :andy:

Yeah I think the OP meant this.  And I agree,. I don't think this is a case of the inventor of the wheel trying to wrap his mind around jet propulsion.

Sam's propensity for thinking outside the box would always be valuable.

It seemed like we had more problems making adjustments on the offensive side of the ball last season.  Part of that was probably due to the loss of key personnel, but it still seemed like it was not Zampeze's strong suit.

I hope the influx of weapons and a year under his belt makes a quantum difference

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-09-2017, 09:23 AM)Au165 Wrote: As Fred pointed out his last NFL job was over a decade ago as a QB coach on a shit team with QB's that never got any better. Before that is was another decade before the guy had an NFL job, I'm sorry if he had anything to offer he'd be offering it and someone would be taking him up on it. If he had no tie here no one would even bring him up, once again people are reaching for anything here. There are other 70+ year old consultants and coaches in the NFL but Sam isn't one. Maybe he doesn't want to do it, maybe he can't, either way it seems moot to even talk about.

I think the argument that his last team was shit is weak.  He helped build a championship roster at Tampa that other coaches took credit for.  

I also disagree that if he had no ties here it wouldn't be brought up and would make zero sense.  The offense still runs largely a west coast style.  The issue (for me anyways) has been the predictability of run formations and personnel.  Asking a guy that had two 1.000 yard rushers in the same season to help the Bengals self-scout wouldn't be all that crazy, IMHO. 

Lastly, as far as why no other team tried this before, it was clear that Sam was in very bad health.  His voice was all but gone and he had no energy.  Whatever was wrong with Sam, he wouldn't likely be able to hold up to a NFL coach's schedule.  That has all changed.  And, again, I am talking about a consultant role that would aid in self-scouting.  He wouldn't be taking anyone's job or creating an entirely new offense.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-10-2017, 09:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think the argument that his last team was shit is weak.  He helped build a championship roster at Tampa that other coaches took credit for.  

I also disagree that if he had no ties here it wouldn't be brought up and would make zero sense.  The offense still runs largely a west coast style.  The issue (for me anyways) has been the predictability of run formations and personnel.  Asking a guy that had two 1.000 yard rushers in the same season to help the Bengals self-scout wouldn't be all that crazy, IMHO. 

Lastly, as far as why no other team tried this before, it was clear that Sam was in very bad health.  His voice was all but gone and he had no energy.  Whatever was wrong with Sam, he wouldn't likely be able to hold up to a NFL coach's schedule.  That has all changed.  And, again, I am talking about a consultant role that would aid in self-scouting.  He wouldn't be taking anyone's job or creating an entirely new offense.  

This^^^^

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-09-2017, 09:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Sam Wyche did not develope the West Coast Offense.  

No, he didn't.  But he was definitely part of the evolution of the offense.  He developed the no-huddle.  

Here is a great article about the Ohio River Offense:

http://www.nfl.com/ohioriveroffense

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-10-2017, 09:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: No, he didn't.  But he was definitely part of the evolution of the offense.  He developed the no-huddle.  

Here is a great article about the Ohio River Offense:

http://www.nfl.com/ohioriveroffense

Exactly, he was the backup in Cincy when the scheme was devised.  It was implemented when Greg Cook went down to compensate for the arms of Wyche and Virgil Carter.  Sam was in on the groundwork of the offense, and studied under Paul Brown and Bill Walsh as a coach as well.  I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have something of substance to offer......

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2017, 11:57 PM)impactplaya Wrote: .
The defenses dictated to him what to call instead of the other way around it seemed


And when a defense was too aggressive Zampese never used that aggressivess against them.

So all Zampese has to do to make you happy is not let the defense dictate to him what to call except for when the an aggressive defense should dictate what he should call.

Got it!

 :andy:

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-10-2017, 10:10 AM)Wyche Wrote: Exactly, he was the backup in Cincy when the scheme was devised.  It was implemented when Greg Cook went down to compensate for the arms of Wyche and Virgil Carter.  Sam was in on the groundwork of the offense, and studied under Paul Brown and Bill Walsh as a coach as well.  I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have something of substance to offer......

Fred and Au will jump all over me for appearing to be sentimental here, but one issue I have always had with the Bengals is that they have no ties to their past.  No Ring of Honor.  There are very few instances when they call on their former greats to address the team or anything like that.

Wyche was an innovator and the Bengals have been called everything but innovative the past 20 years.  If the team made a simple gesture to Wyche, offered him a decent consulting fee, and had him self-scout the team and provide any ideas he thinks that could better disguise formations or help in any way, I think the city would celebrate the move.  Granted, some of the younger generations may have to Google him to learn what he had done here, but it would be a great lesson!

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-10-2017, 11:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So all Zampese has to do to make you happy is not let the defense dictate to him what to call except for when the an aggressive defense should dictate what he should call.

Got it!

 :andy:

I think all he meant was to help him know what counter moves to execute in certain situations.  

If Zamp looked like he knew what to do more often, folks probably wouldn't be trying so hard to get him some help.

[sandwedge]

(05-09-2017, 11:57 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I felt in 2016  Zampese called plays a bit too safely.
His formations tipped off where the play was designed to.
The defenses dictated to him what to call instead of the other way around it seemed
Zampese rarely from what I saw ran up tempo or any kind of misdirection
And when a defense was too aggressive Zampese never used that aggressivess against them.
I think another set of eyes would help him.
I wasn't impressed with his play calling on GameDay .
Yeah he to deal with injuries.
So does the Pats Packers.

Agree with this but I wouldn't think Wyche would be that extra set of eyes. We already have those coaches onboard.

[Sled21]

I love Sam Wyche, he's my favorite Bengals coach. That said, again, bringing him in to consult would cut the legs right out from under Zampese and send a message to the players that the front office does not have faith in him. Now if Zamp was to call him and say "how about stopping by and taking a look at", I would be all on board with it. Otherwise, I think it causes more problems than it solves. It's a moot point anyway, right?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-11-2017, 08:31 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I love Sam Wyche, he's my favorite Bengals coach. That said, again, bringing him in to consult would cut the legs right out from under Zampese and send a message to the players that the front office does not have faith in him. Now if Zamp was to call him and say "how about stopping by and taking a look at", I would be all on board with it. Otherwise, I think it causes more problems than it solves. It's a moot point anyway, right?

That's a great point.... :andy: