I am Loving the Speed

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-13-2017, 06:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You won't be loving the speed of the opponent's DL going through the Bengals' OL. Or the speed of the ambulance carrying Dalton to the hospital.

Hewitt back healthy helps running game.

Mixon, a RB that can catch balls out of the backfield and pick up blitzes prevents the predictable: "Hill is in the game, let's sell out on a run-blitz".

Boling is 100% healthy.  Not having a functional shoulder is quite a challenge to a NFL Guard, but the guy toughed it out as long as he could.  He will be MUCH better this year healthy.  

Ross/Core/Malone vertical threats force opposing defenses to drop safeties.


One thing is for sure:  Week 1 against Terrell Suggs, who was owned by Whitworth over the years, will be getting a lot of attention from TEs, RBs, and the FB.  Talk about trial by fire.  If Ced can hold his own against him, then he will be off and running to a successful season.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-13-2017, 07:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yep! And please let me state my hatred for bandwagoners. It takes a special heart to be a fan of this team. You have to earn the right to be on that wagon, you can't just jump on.

WTS, if the line does their job (big if), we friggin smoke the division, the conference and the playoffs. That if Marvin keeps it together (another big if)?

I used to feel this way, HDog.  Now, with so many "fringe fans" of sports, I just want to have the city rally behind this team and enjoy the ride all the way to a Super Bowl win.  I would love to see so many people that gave up on the Bengals when Carson quit, or say "Not until Mike Brown steps down" or some other crap just watch this team and have a blast cheering them all the way.  

I think of bandwagoners as the person that roots for the Patriots, Golden State, Penguins, and Cubs....they are always buying a hat of whatever team just won the title.  Like, that somehow improves their status...

There are only a select few of us, though, that know once that big win happens that we will enjoy a feeling like no other.  Much like the 50 year Cubs fans that finally got their title last year. Stories of people listening to the game at their father's grave, and pouring some scotch down to him in celebration.  That will be us.  This is our year.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-13-2017, 08:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm going to watch all the games and cheer for the team regardless if they are good or not. I was still a fan regardless of Akili Smith or Ryan Fizpatrick being the starter, so my "true fan" status has been well paid off.

I just know two years ago the Colts tried this exact same approach. Stock up on offensive talent at the skill positions... Luck, Gore, Hilton, A Johnson, Fleener, Allen, use a first round pick on an undersized WR who was the fastest in their draft in Dorsett... and think that the skill positions will make up for having a putrid OL.

Luck ended up with a hurt right shoulder, a hurt ankle, lacerated kidney, and torn abdominal muscle. He had never missed a game prior, but played only 7 games that year. His hasn't really been truly healthy since then, and he had to get surgery on his throwing shoulder, traced back to the injury in the 2015 season. Luck still hasn't resumed throwing yet.

They call it a copycat league, but it is generally implied you are supposed to copy the good things, not the stupid things.

That is a great analogy.  Rep to you.

We are in the same boat...I remember the darkness of the 90s.  I remember the brief glimmer of hope that was Blake to Pickens.   Those teams were miles behind where we are today.

The Colts analogy is excellent.  Only I would argue this team has more in terms of the RB (Gore was solid, but old), TE, and WR (Green trumps all, plus depth).  However, this Bengals team has the potential to be a top 5 defense.  The Manning-led Colts were good at getting a lead, and then releasing the hounds on pass rush.  But the current Colt teams have middling defenses at best.  Luck got killed because he was always playing from behind, and he still tends to hold on the ball a long time (sidenote:  I remember when he was coming out, they called him rothlisburger with brains, which I thought was hilarious, but he does need to be smarter and protect himself better).

Dalton doesn't hold on to the ball too long and expose himself to a lot of hits.  The biggest advantages this team has going for them over that Colts team is the defense, and the fact that Dalton doesn't hold the ball too long.  

[CJD]

(06-13-2017, 08:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm going to watch all the games and cheer for the team regardless if they are good or not. I was still a fan regardless of Akili Smith or Ryan Fizpatrick being the starter, so my "true fan" status has been well paid off.

I just know two years ago the Colts tried this exact same approach. Stock up on offensive talent at the skill positions... Luck, Gore, Hilton, A Johnson, Fleener, Allen, use a first round pick on an undersized WR who was the fastest in their draft in Dorsett... and think that the skill positions will make up for having a putrid OL.

Luck ended up with a hurt right shoulder, a hurt ankle, lacerated kidney, and torn abdominal muscle. He had never missed a game prior, but played only 7 games that year. His hasn't really been truly healthy since then, and he had to get surgery on his throwing shoulder, traced back to the injury in the 2015 season. Luck still hasn't resumed throwing yet.

They call it a copycat league, but it is generally implied you are supposed to copy the good things, not the stupid things.

Bengals aren't copying the Colts though. The reason the Colts had such a bad Oline was because, from 2012 until 2015, they spent only one second round pick, one third round pick and zero first round picks on the offensive line. So when their Oline underperformed, the problem wasn't that highly drafted players were not panning out. It was their lack of emphasis on drafting them made it a near inevitability.

They finally broke the cycle in 2016 by drafting a Center in the first round. But that's 2 premium picks on the Oline in 5 years.

The players we're worried about not working out aren't late round picks that we're hoping suddenly become good.

We're worried about a first and a second round pick living up to their potential.

In 2016, we weren't going to draft any Oline, because we had other weaknesses and we had a fairly stout Oline, if 2015 was any indication and two highly drafted tackles waiting in the wings.

And in 2017, we ended up not drafting any Oline because the value at the positions was terrible and there was tremendous value at every single one of our day 1 and day 2 picks with no Olinemen even close to value at any slot. And reaching for Oline would be just as bad, in my opinion, as having to wait one more year to get talented players along the line.

We may have a bad Oline this year. But it won't be because we took the Colts' route of ignoring the position for years and expecting magical results from 4th and 5th rounders.

If we have a bad Oline, it will be because, despite our emphasis on the position group, our highly drafted players did not live up to expectations.

I think there's a significant difference between the two scenarios.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-14-2017, 02:50 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Finally, the speed can help a subpar line.. speed is more than just going long.. quick screens, slants.. safety release out of backfield all are facets that can help protect a QB getting rushed.  I am not saying that our line is cured and could be a issue for sure.. but this draft was not a good draft for lineman and I believe they decided to induce speed into the equation and believed this will help the offense line better than drafting early lineman that probably would not have helped. 

This and the improvement offered by Mixon and a healthy Hewitt.  I think we dismiss just how easy it was to defend the Bengals last year on defense.  No Eifert.  No AJ Green.  No Gio.  When Hill was lined up in the backfield, it was almost always a run (early, before losing Gio) because he sucks at blitz pick up, and he isn't much of a receiver.  

Talk to any offensive lineman and he will tell you that the best way to cure a line that is hurting in pass blocking is to let them fire off the ball and run block.  

Sexy made the line look better in his very limited action a year ago.  Mixon and a healthy Hewitt will have an even greater impact.  

[3wt]

(06-13-2017, 08:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm going to watch all the games and cheer for the team regardless if they are good or not. I was still a fan regardless of Akili Smith or Ryan Fizpatrick being the starter, so my "true fan" status has been well paid off.

I just know two years ago the Colts tried this exact same approach. Stock up on offensive talent at the skill positions... Luck, Gore, Hilton, A Johnson, Fleener, Allen, use a first round pick on an undersized WR who was the fastest in their draft in Dorsett... and think that the skill positions will make up for having a putrid OL.

Luck ended up with a hurt right shoulder, a hurt ankle, lacerated kidney, and torn abdominal muscle. He had never missed a game prior, but played only 7 games that year. His hasn't really been truly healthy since then, and he had to get surgery on his throwing shoulder, traced back to the injury in the 2015 season. Luck still hasn't resumed throwing yet.

They call it a copycat league, but it is generally implied you are supposed to copy the good things, not the stupid things.

I mean I think your point is totally valid in terms of the approach the Colts took and the sense of putting the cart before the horse.

But I can't agree that the Bengals approach was stupid.  There were really not a lot of good offensive linemen in this draft relative to the talent in the positions we drafted in - certainly not at the 9th pick.  And assuming someone was willing to trade up to nine,  the chance that we would still get an appropriately qualified player lower down was pretty slim looking down from 9.

The biggest draft issue was the tackles we took in 2014 who appear to have been anywhere between reaches and busts.  Given the lack of OTA and training camp reps for both of those players I think there is still a tiny bit of hope they will pan out.

The second biggest problem was letting Whit walk given the lack of assurance that Og would pan out.

But this year's draft looks better the more I see and hear, so I don't think this year's draft qualifies as being stupid.

We'll see...

[sandwedge]

(06-14-2017, 10:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This and the improvement offered by Mixon and a healthy Hewitt.  I think we dismiss just how easy it was to defend the Bengals last year on defense.  No Eifert.  No AJ Green.  No Gio.  When Hill was lined up in the backfield, it was almost always a run (early, before losing Gio) because he sucks at blitz pick up, and he isn't much of a receiver.  

Talk to any offensive lineman and he will tell you that the best way to cure a line that is hurting in pass blocking is to let them fire off the ball and run block.  

Sexy made the line look better in his very limited action a year ago.  Mixon and a healthy Hewitt will have an even greater impact.  

Bingo! The D will have to play honest.

[GodFather]

(06-13-2017, 07:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yep! And please let me state my hatred for bandwagoners. It takes a special heart to be a fan of this team. You have to earn the right to be on that wagon, you can't just jump on.

WTS, if the line does their job (big if), we friggin smoke the division, the conference and the playoffs. That if Marvin keeps it together (another big if)?

I feel like the word special says it all, as in we all take the short bus to the stadium on Sunday's to watch the Bengals play!


Being on the Bengals bandwagon is the equivalent to catching a ride on the Titanic as its sinking!

[3wt]

(06-14-2017, 10:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This and the improvement offered by Mixon and a healthy Hewitt.  I think we dismiss just how easy it was to defend the Bengals last year on defense.  No Eifert.  No AJ Green.  No Gio.  When Hill was lined up in the backfield, it was almost always a run (early, before losing Gio) because he sucks at blitz pick up, and he isn't much of a receiver.  

Talk to any offensive lineman and he will tell you that the best way to cure a line that is hurting in pass blocking is to let them fire off the ball and run block.  

Sexy made the line look better in his very limited action a year ago.  Mixon and a healthy Hewitt will have an even greater impact.  

I think everyone has underestimated the devastating injury situation we had.   It wasn't just that we didn't have Green, Eifert and Gio.  We didn't have players like Boling (who was lucky to have an arm hanging from his shoulder by the end of the season), Hewitt and Hill.   For all my rants about losing Burkhead (I still maintain that, but that's a dead horse for a different thread), Hill was clearly hurt pretty much the whole season.

They say Hill has looked awesome in the Mandatory Sessions this week.

So, it all does come down to Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum on the ends of the O-line.   If they're up to it we're gong to have an awesome season.  And even if Og is not (I say this cringing) I think overall we will be better.  To what degree will depend on injuries.

[Sled21]

(06-14-2017, 12:29 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: With the speed that is on offense, Andy Dalton won't need 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. If I'm not mistaken, Dalton has one of the fastest deliveries in the NFL and who exactly is going to be able to cover Ross when he is sent deep?

It takes Ross 4.22 seconds to get 40 yards, add half a second to account for the pads and helmet so 4.72 seconds. For Dalton to throw the ball 40 yards, he will only need 2 seconds and the time of travel will allow Ross to just flat out beat his man if he's one on one which he should be since he's a rookie and Green is on the other side being doubled.

Once he continues to beat his man, he will need help which should pull the Safteys back making the LB's cover the TE's. Once they are beat, the opposing D will have to give the LB's help and drop a DE which should allow Mixon and Hill room to run.

On D, the Bengals will have Atkins and Billings clogging the middle with Dunlap and whoever on the Ends. Burfict, Minter and the kid from last year will cover the middle of the field which will allow the Safteys to help the DB's

In a perfect world that is.

And you aren't even mentioning AJ who will be on the opposite side, who is not slow himself, along with Malone and Core. The #1 corner will be on Green.... good luck covering everyone else with your #2....

[Sled21]

(06-14-2017, 09:15 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: We have to be able to run the ball more effectively. I think if we're able to run the ball better than we have, we'll be much more explosive. That will mean the whole defense will have to respect the run and give our speed guys those valuable few seconds to get by the D checking in on the backfield.

Even though the league has changed into more of a passing league, running the ball is still the tried and true way of a  being a dynamic offense.

Joe Mixon automatically improves the run game, not only due to his own talent (which they say has opened a lot of eyes at OTA's) but because 2 Yard Jeremy knows he has to improve or lose his spot....

[3wt]

(06-13-2017, 06:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/NFLs-fastest-team-Speed-mandatory-at-this-camp/14f24f21-78c2-40a7-abae-e3e99e0b8acd

Can these rookies make the roster and change the overall team speed? Will it make a difference? If so,where exactly do you see biggest impact from the 2017 speed draftees?

Encouraging thread Luvnit2.

Most of them, yes, stretching the field on offense, covering RBs and TEs & speed off the edge on defense.

It's amazing we won as many games as we did last year.

[sandwedge]

(06-14-2017, 12:04 PM)3wt Wrote: I think everyone has underestimated the devastating injury situation we had.   It wasn't just that we didn't have Green, Eifert and Gio.  We didn't have players like Boling (who was lucky to have an arm hanging from his shoulder by the end of the season), Hewitt and Hill.   For all my rants about losing Burkhead (I still maintain that, but that's a dead horse for a different thread), Hill was clearly hurt pretty much the whole season.

They say Hill has looked awesome in the Mandatory Sessions this week.

So, it all does come down to Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum on the ends of the O-line.   If they're up to it we're gong to have an awesome season.  And even if Og is not (I say this cringing) I think overall we will be better.  To what degree will depend on injuries.

We are also hoping that our kicker wins us at least a couple of games. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-14-2017, 09:42 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think my favorite part of the added speed is that it's talented speed. This isn't Darius Heyward Bey, Dontay Moch, Dri Archer speed.

This is refined, route running, edge bending, tackle breaking, gap reading speed.

We've never had this before.

Yeah, these guys are all around good football players, not just speed. Great stuff CJD.

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-13-2017, 08:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm going to watch all the games and cheer for the team regardless if they are good or not. I was still a fan regardless of Akili Smith or Ryan Fizpatrick being the starter, so my "true fan" status has been well paid off.

I just know two years ago the Colts tried this exact same approach. Stock up on offensive talent at the skill positions... Luck, Gore, Hilton, A Johnson, Fleener, Allen, use a first round pick on an undersized WR who was the fastest in their draft in Dorsett... and think that the skill positions will make up for having a putrid OL.

Luck ended up with a hurt right shoulder, a hurt ankle, lacerated kidney, and torn abdominal muscle. He had never missed a game prior, but played only 7 games that year. His hasn't really been truly healthy since then, and he had to get surgery on his throwing shoulder, traced back to the injury in the 2015 season. Luck still hasn't resumed throwing yet.

They call it a copycat league, but it is generally implied you are supposed to copy the good things, not the stupid things.

I know you will watch the games.  You're not a bandwagoner.  And, I am not claiming that the Bengals' Oline will definitely be good.  Just that there are enough differences between the last two years to at least think this time they might be better than they were last year.  But, there's a difference in not being optimistic, because you don't know yet vs. claiming ahead of time that the Bengals Oline will be terrible.  We don't know if the Bengals' line will fail just yet.  But most of those things are arguable.  The one thing which doesn't make sense is talking about how the Bengals Oline will suck in a thread about speed being added to the WR, LB, ST units.  Sure if this was a thread about how the Bengals will do overall, then yes.  I also didn't intend for you to think I was stating you were not a "true fan".  My use of "bandwagon" (probably wrongly used) was to mean that if the Bengals line holds up, anyone who was strongly voicing their opinions about the Oline being the demise of this team will suddenly forget that they were wrongly belittling the Bengals chances for the year and probably will not acknowledge their questionable "expertise".  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-14-2017, 12:04 PM)3wt Wrote: I think everyone has underestimated the devastating injury situation we had.   It wasn't just that we didn't have Green, Eifert and Gio.  We didn't have players like Boling (who was lucky to have an arm hanging from his shoulder by the end of the season), Hewitt and Hill.   For all my rants about losing Burkhead (I still maintain that, but that's a dead horse for a different thread), Hill was clearly hurt pretty much the whole season.

They say Hill has looked awesome in the Mandatory Sessions this week.

So, it all does come down to Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum on the ends of the O-line.   If they're up to it we're gong to have an awesome season.  And even if Og is not (I say this cringing) I think overall we will be better.  To what degree will depend on injuries.

Not only are they starting the season with a clear bill of health, but they have improved their depth to prepare for any other injuries.  Teams like Baltimore have decent first line players, but they stink on ice after their top starters are out.  The Bengals have a very deep roster at a number of position groups.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-14-2017, 12:01 PM)GodFather Wrote: I feel like the word special says it all, as in we all take the short bus to the stadium on Sunday's to watch the Bengals play!


Being on the Bengals bandwagon is the equivalent to catching a ride on the Titanic as its sinking!

The Bengal Bandwagon is the Titanic?  Have you watched the Browns, Jets, or 49ers?  I think the Bengals are a contender, and have a lot going for them. 

[GodFather]

(06-14-2017, 01:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: The Bengal Bandwagon is the Titanic?  Have you watched the Browns, Jets, or 49ers?  I think the Bengals are a contender, and have a lot going for them. 

of course you do, see me in January and tell me that..

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-14-2017, 01:52 PM)GodFather Wrote: of course you do, see me in January and tell me that..

You may be right, but if I am right, I will have enjoyed the greatest sports moment in our town's history, IMHO, and enjoyed every moment of the entire season leading up to it.  I wouldn't miss that for anything, and especially not because they haven't won it before or have had some huge meltdowns in the past.  

Live in the now.  No team has won the 2018 Super Bowl yet.  Who cares what happened before?  The race is now.  This season is all new.  Enjoy it!

[guyofthetiger]

Speed is nothing new with the Bengals. Look how often they've outrun the cops. lol