Players speak for first time on Marvin's contract situation

[J24]

I think they know it's his last season here no matter what.

[Murdock2420]

(06-22-2017, 04:43 PM)J24 Wrote: I think they know it's his last season here no matter what.

I'd like to see Marvin stay just not as head coach. The guy can find talent and I'd hate to see him working for another team's front office. Hopefully Mike's loyalty pays off in this instance and Marvin gets a job helping Duke Tobin.

[grampahol]

I think players are in the same boat as Marvin, either perform or leave, but coaching is a bit different in that coaches rarely miss games because of injuries. Players often do and coaches performance really hinges on the talent and performance of the players more so than the other way around. 
Marvin has had to pull teeth to get things from the ownership and coaches are quite often hamstrung by ownership. We really don't know just how many times Marvin has been forced to have to deal with ownership whims that hold the team back. He seems like the kind of loyal employee who would keep his mouth shut despite horrible moves by the front office and be willing to take the blame for it, but because of the way Marvin is, tight lipped, we really don't know just how much he's had to swallow to keep his job. 

Of course there's always the conspiracy theories about Marvin being from the Pittsburgh area and still being loyal to them over his current employer, but I don't really buy that one. They don't pay his mortgage. 

Nice article Jim. I'm glad I hadn't been to the site for awhile so it wasn't begging me to subscribe (as much as usual)..

[XenoMorph]

(06-22-2017, 02:45 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: And tbh, with all the success Lewis has had, if he wins a super bowl he could be compared to madden. Sounds stupid, but the comparison is made to highlight the fact that it's a tough league. You can win the division year after year but can also lose to a hail marry to the Damn steelers! Doesn't make you not able to eventually win a super bowl... this stigma of a coach "not able to win" something is not a sound argument.  It is, in fact, a fallacy.  And that is my point.

a lot of things go into a great season..

 Coaching
Health of Players
And simply Luck of the Bounce... so to speak.. (somethings will go your way some things wont)

Really the 2nd one gets us most of the time.  Even with a roster banged up and stars not available marvin has been getting this team to the playoffs..  

did it with a rookie QB and WR when we were predicted 32/32
Did it again the next year With a few injuries...  About a pass or 2 away from the playoff win
The 3rd year  we lost that home game to our own mistakes not sure coaching differently fixes some of the player errors of that game.
2014 get back  missing most the offensive team
2015 was our year till we lost our QB  and we saw how it went after that.
2016 another injury riddled year 1st in Dalton era we fail to make the playoffs.

If you just look at the playoff numbers  it can look bad for marvin but if you look objectionally at everything from the season you can EASILY understand why the man still has a job here.

most fans are just impatient and would fire anyone they think might help them with no evidence it will.

[McC]

(06-22-2017, 01:06 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think they all know the deal with the zero playoff wins and what that has done to the fanbase. He's at that point of win one or be gone.... He built the franchise up from where it was, but this is a "what have you done for me lately" league....

Yes.  We climbed out of the valley.  Now it's high time to get the rest of the way up the mountain.

[Pat5775]

(06-22-2017, 02:09 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: No he isnt. If Mike Brown is anything he is predictable,  and firing a winning head coach is just not something he is going to do. Also, this fallacy argument that firing marvin is going to magically get us a playoff win is absurd. Ask the reds how that one works

Who the hell is saying that? Us rational thinkers realize that Marvin isn't the one to get us a playoff win (let alone a super bowl) so we're ready to move on and take a chance on someone else. What is the point of sticking with something that doesn't work? And another thing, we are nothing like the Reds. The Bengals are pretty stacked with talent, the Reds? Not so much. I think just about anyone can come in here and win with the talent on this roster (aside from Jeff Fisher or the Ryan brothers), it's just a matter of can they get us over the hump or not. And guess what? Marvin has proven he can't. It's broken, and it's beyond time to try and fix it. 

Back on topic, now I'm nervous. I want the team to do well, but for the future of this franchise Marvin has got to go if this team is to ever win a super bowl. If we get to the playoffs and the team (by some insane miracle) gets us that elusive playoff win, I'm sure Marvin will be extended (regardless of how the rest of the postseason unfolds).

One playoff win is not enough to warrant an extension IMO. The team has to play with fire in the postseason and Primetime games this season. They have to show some balls and not wilt under the lights. If they do that, then sure, by all means extend Marv for another year...

But I'd bet just about anything that won't happen. Marvin will not win a playoff game, I'm calling it right now (and honestly, I hope I'm wrong but Marvin never proves me wrong). I guarantee if we merely make the playoffs again Marvin will be extended... Hell even if we don't make the playoffs I could see ol Mikey Boy extending him.

I'd say, the odds of us having a different head coach next year are less than 25%. Marvin is going nowhere unless he quits or "retires"

[Pat5775]

(06-22-2017, 03:43 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I don't believe replacing Marvin should be that hard, seeing how the draft and scouting part of the organization does well and is in place with a clear hierarchy.  The team has a good qb, good defense with potential to become great, with the addition of the new personnel in this draft and almost the same thing on offense.  It shouldn't be hard to either identify an up and coming coach and bring him on board, or to have a good former coach who is currently out of the game, to come in for a couple seasons.  However, considering that this is a MB owned team, it may not be realistic to expect that a transition would be smooth to a new coach, simply because MB is not keen on conceding any ground to the new coach that Marvin had to work hard to earn.  Given those constraints, it will likely be difficult to find any replacement which is not in house, and that, I'm not sure would work out better.  IMO, Zimmer would have been the right guy to transition into Head Coach, but that train has long left the station.  Unlike many other posters here, I'm not a believer in Hue Jackson, and don't think he would have done better than Marvin.

I'm not a huge fan of Hue either. I like him, I think he'll do good things for the Browns but... We could do better. I really liked Vance Joseph, it's a real shame that Denver snagged him before we could. 

Realistically, if Marvin were to go, sounds like Guenther would be next in line. I'm not so sure how I'd feel about that. Maybe if Marv had let him make the personnel changes he wants to last year, we'd all have a better idea of what Guenther has as far as football IQ 

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-22-2017, 07:06 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I'm not a huge fan of Hue either. I like him, I think he'll do good things for the Browns but... We could do better. I really liked Vance Joseph, it's a real shame that Denver snagged him before we could. 

Realistically, if Marvin were to go, sounds like Guenther would be next in line. I'm not so sure how I'd feel about that. Maybe if Marv had let him make the personnel changes he wants to last year, we'd all have a better idea of what Guenther has as far as football IQ 

The more I think about this, I don't think Guenther would do too terribly, because I don't doubt his defensive IQ.  Considering the personnel team already in place, I don't think the team would have any problem identifying talent.  Guenther probably would be good to great at developing defensive talent.  I'm not sure if Marvin is missing some intangible as a coach that leads to discplined players who play confidently in the big games or if Guenther would be any better at that, but I feel like Guenther would be a guy who could get the team playing with aggression and belief.  But I will openly admit that it's only my own speculation based on Guenther's "appearance" on the sideline.  Which could be completely wrong.  I would probably prefer an attacking offensive coach to take the offense to another level, but that definitely doesn't seem to be in-house.  

[Dr. Bombay]

(06-22-2017, 06:47 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Who the hell is saying that? Us rational thinkers realize that Marvin isn't the one to get us a playoff win (let alone a super bowl) so we're ready to move on and take a chance on someone else. What is the point of sticking with something that doesn't work? 

For 15 years John Elway proved he could not win a Super Bowl.

Wonder why the Broncos did not replace him?

[Shake n Blake]

(06-22-2017, 03:31 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I should note that I am not a marvin fanboy.. I just think replacing him with someone better is going to be a lot harder than people think

Tbh, I couldn't care less at this point. At least the losing (if we lose) would come with some hope for the future. I have zero hope that Marv will ever get past round 1. Or the Steelers. Or prime time games.

[Pat5775]

(06-22-2017, 08:19 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: For 15 years John Elway proved he could not win a Super Bowl.

Wonder why the Broncos did not replace him?

Because Elway played like one of the best QB's of all time throughout 90% of his career. Marvin is one of worst Primetime and postseason coaches of all time. With Elway, you always saw the upside and knew damn well he wasn't the main reason for lack of postseason success. Marvin, the head coach of many different Bengal teams with different players, coaches, schemes etc... All have wilted under the pressure in Primetime and playoff games countless times. Who's the one constant here?

Terrible comparison. 

[Pat5775]

(06-22-2017, 07:56 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: The more I think about this, I don't think Guenther would do too terribly, because I don't doubt his defensive IQ.  Considering the personnel team already in place, I don't think the team would have any problem identifying talent.  Guenther probably would be good to great at developing defensive talent.  I'm not sure if Marvin is missing some intangible as a coach that leads to discplined players who play confidently in the big games or if Guenther would be any better at that, but I feel like Guenther would be a guy who could get the team playing with aggression and belief.  But I will openly admit that it's only my own speculation based on Guenther's "appearance" on the sideline.  Which could be completely wrong.  I would probably prefer an attacking offensive coach to take the offense to another level, but that definitely doesn't seem to be in-house.  

At this point, I don't care who it is. ABM : Anybody But Marv

[*bfine32*]

What can a player say/feel:

If we had a better coach we could win a playoff game

I blame not winning a playoff game on the HC


For a player to even think and/or suggest they cannot win because of the coach is silly and is a dynamic that I have pointed out many times.

Now fans and owners are free to blame playoff frustration on the HC, but not the players.

[Dr. Bombay]

(06-22-2017, 08:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Tbh, I couldn't care less at this point. At least the losing (if we lose) would come with some hope for the future.

So if we go 4-12 for a couple of years in a row you are still going to think we have a better chance of winning a playoff game than with Marvin?

Why is that?  Why woul having a losing record give you more hope thasn making the playoffs under Marvin?

[BenZoo2]

(06-23-2017, 12:43 AM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: So if we go 4-12 for a couple of years in a row you are still going to think we have a better chance of winning a playoff game than with Marvin?

Why is that?  Why woul having a losing record give you more hope thasn making the playoffs under Marvin?

HI Fred 

[Dr. Bombay]

(06-22-2017, 09:29 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Because Elway played like one of the best QB's of all time throughout 90% of his career. Marvin is one of worst Primetime and postseason coaches of all time. With Elway, you always saw the upside and knew damn well he wasn't the main reason for lack of postseason success. Marvin, the head coach of many different Bengal teams with  different players, coaches, schemes etc... All have wilted under the pressure in Primetime and playoff games countless times. Who's the one constant here?

Terrible comparison. 

In Elways first three Super Bowls he had completed less than 50 percent of his passes (46-101) with 1 td and 6 ints.

He had "proven" that he could not win a Super Bowl just as much as Marvin has "proven" he can not win a playoff game.  Elways success in getting to the Super Bowl was meaningless.  At least that was what all the "rational" Bronco fans said.

[Pat5775]

(06-23-2017, 12:53 AM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: In Elways first three Super Bowls he had completed less than 50 percent of his passes (46-101) with 1 td and 6 ints.

He had "proven" that he could not win a Super Bowl just as much as Marvin has "proven" he can not win a playoff game.  Elways success in getting to the Super Bowl was meaningless.  At least that was what all the "rational" Bronco fans said.

Haha oh how I missed you Fred   Welcome back 

[*SHRacerX*]

My response to what the players said: Meh. Not much here, just typical player speak about team, winning, etc. They know better than to put their results on their coach.

My response to Marv's current situation: Prove it. Marv had to deal with a horrible kicking game a year ago that single-handedly lost two games and lead to another tie. He has dealt with unfortunate injuries at key positions and inopportune times. So has every other coach. Not just the NFL, but virtually every job is "what have you done for me lately"? He has been given all the tools to go deep in to the playoffs and potentially win it all. The Bengals didn't have to give him this opportunity. I was very excited at the proposed "transition plan" to Hue Jackson, who I was 100% behind as our coach of the future. However, the Browns overwhelmed him and wouldn't let him leave without a contract. Good for them. I applaud that dedication. It screwed the Bengals, and the answer was not to throw it to someone from outside or a guy like Paulie G before he was ready.

Marv was the option that gave us the best chance to win this year, historical record in the postseason notwithstanding.

Personally, I love Marv for what he has done for this organization. I also hate his conservative nature and his inability to manage the clock. Hurry up looks like a middle school team that has never tried it before. Drives me nuts.

In the end, I feel he deserves this last shot at the big one. Paulie will likely take over next year, regardless of the result.

[BMK]

I believe that this is Marv's last season, win, lose or draw. I also believe that the lack of a contract extension was mutually agreed to, with the understanding that Marv will have the option to be bumped upstairs if he elects not to pursue other coaching opportunities. I'd say his marketability is that he would be 'in the conversation' for some head coaching vacancies (though the trend seems to be hiring younger up-and-comers), but he would be more sought after as a coordinator....which at this point in life, he might have little interest for. So I think he stays inside the Bengals organization and starts carrying a briefcase to work instead of a clipboard.

Of course a very serious playoff run could change everything....from inside and outside the organization.

[sandwedge]

(06-23-2017, 08:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: My response to what the players said:  Meh.  Not much here, just typical player speak about team, winning, etc.  They know better than to put their results on their coach.

My response to Marv's current situation:  Prove it.  Marv had to deal with a horrible kicking game a year ago that single-handedly lost two games and lead to another tie.  He has dealt with unfortunate injuries at key positions and inopportune times.  So has every other coach.  Not just the NFL, but virtually every job is "what have you done for me lately"?  He has been given all the tools to go deep in to the playoffs and potentially win it all.  The Bengals didn't have to give him this opportunity.  I was very excited at the proposed "transition plan" to Hue Jackson, who I was 100% behind as our coach of the future.  However, the Browns overwhelmed him and wouldn't let him leave without a contract.  Good for them.  I applaud that dedication.  It screwed the Bengals, and the answer was not to throw it to someone from outside or a guy like Paulie G before he was ready.  

Marv was the option that gave us the best chance to win this year, historical record in the postseason notwithstanding.  

Personally, I love Marv for what he has done for this organization.  I also hate his conservative nature and his inability to manage the clock.  Hurry up looks like a middle school team that has never tried it before.  Drives me nuts.  

In the end, I feel he deserves this last shot at the big one.  Paulie will likely take over next year, regardless of the result.

Pretty much my thinking also. I think the job is Guenther's next year, if he wants it. Guenther came out last season with a statement about needing to get younger and faster by playing more of the rookies. Lewis didn't like it, but eventually I think saw that Guenther was right.  I wouldn't be to upset if Guenther was named the HC next season.