Players speak for first time on Marvin's contract situation

[HarleyDog]

(06-26-2017, 02:45 AM)Shady Wrote: Although I think we blew it when we let Vance Joseph get away, I Gunther might be a good HC for us. Can't say for sure. We had alot of injuries on the defense last year (Hardison and Billings, just to name two) that forced Peko and MJ into playing far more than they should have.  Dansby was a disappointment (over the hill). We lacked speed in the middle of the field. So we got gashed on the ground and couldn't generate a pass rush to save our lives. We put way too much pressure on our secondary. We knew what we need to do in the draft, and we took care of business. You could even say we got lucky. Who knew that Willis and Lawson would drop as far as they did. Either way, it allowed us to seriously upgrade our WR corps and our situation at RB. Plus, we've got a real competition for a kicker to replace Nuge, but I hope we don't have to attempt as many FGs if our Red Zone offense can pick up. 

Outside of not addressing the OL, we had a good draft.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-24-2017, 06:03 PM)grampahol Wrote: You know..IF the Bengals go on to win the super bowl this year and stomp every opponent into the ground under their cleats all the arguments about Marvin not being up to the job will be mute. 1. The simple fact of the matter is that everyone stinks up until the point that they don't. I have never made the assumption that Marvin is incapable of taking the team all the way. 2. Its simply not all on any one individual. On every single play of every snap there's always 22 players on the field and any number of coaches and assistant coaches.

There are just too many moving parts to a team to blame success or failure on one person. You can use the argument that the buck stops there, 3. but without your best players playing their best it's tough to pin it all on the guy in charge of hiring and firing. 4. There's just so many intangible factors that nobody can reliably predict from day to day and there's also such things as referee biases and league interference and perceived bias towards certain teams and markets. 

1. By that logic, we should've never fired Dave Shula. A championship could've been right around the corner. You never know...

2. We've gone through at least 2 different core groups of players with Marvin Lewis and we've had the same results for going on 15 years now. At some point, you have to start looking at the guy who is not only getting these guys ready, prepared and oversees the game plans, but also is responsible for the drafting of these players. Either way...it falls back on the guy at the top. Either he's assembling rosters of choke artists, or he himself is a choke artist.

3. Maybe Marv isn't putting his best players in the best positions to succeed?

4. I might buy that if we were talking about a couple games. Not 7. Plus 5 of the games weren't even close. Hard to blame refs for a 31-10 loss.

[Sled21]

My dream scenario was that Marvin was moved upstairs, and Zimmer was HC. That didn't happen, obviously. That said, I don't think we can put the blame for all those playoff games on Marvin. After the Carson exit, we had rookies Dalton and Green, and it was basically overperforming that those teams even got to the playoffs. Then there was the season where injuries were so bad we were using the 4th string running back as a slot receiver. Did anyone really expect to win with all those injuries, it was more like a MASH unit that an NFL roster. In all reality, the two losses to the Texans in 12 and 13 were to be expected. The loss to San Diego was poor coaching and poor performance from players who barely showed up. The loss to the Colts was due to injuries, and the Stealers.... well, Dalton was out, Hill couldn't hold onto the ball, and Jones let the Stealers into his head. So in my mind, Marvin is to blame for 2 losses in the playoffs he should have won. But, that said, if he doesn't get one this year, I don't think he's back at all...... and I'm not even sure he wants to come back. Paulie's time....

[Shake n Blake]

(06-29-2017, 04:12 PM)Sled21 Wrote: My dream scenario was that Marvin was moved upstairs, and Zimmer was HC. That didn't happen, obviously. That said, I don't think we can put the blame for all those playoff games on Marvin. After the Carson exit, we had rookies Dalton and Green, and it was basically overperforming that those teams even got to the playoffs. Then there was the season where injuries were so bad we were using the 4th string running back as a slot receiver. Did anyone really expect to win with all those injuries, it was more like a MASH unit that an NFL roster. In all reality, the two losses to the Texans in 12 and 13 were to be expected. The loss to San Diego was poor coaching and poor performance from players who barely showed up. The loss to the Colts was due to injuries, and the Stealers.... well, Dalton was out, Hill couldn't hold onto the ball, and Jones let the Stealers into his head. So in my mind, Marvin is to blame for 2 losses in the playoffs he should have won. But, that said, if he doesn't get one this year, I don't think he's back at all...... and I'm not even sure he wants to come back. Paulie's time....

Meh. When Dalton and Green were rookies, we lost to the Texans, who were starting a rookie 3rd string QB. They also had many rookies and young players, including JJ Watt, Ben Tate, Brian Cushing, Kareem Jackson, Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, Arian Foster, etc. These guys were their core players and all were 25 or under. And again...they were starting a rookie 3rd string QB with 5 starts under his belt.

Yeah we were seriously hurting at WR for the Colts game (we did have Sanu though), but the Colts were rotating their 3rd and 4th string RBs...who combined for 187 yards. The Colts made do, so why couldn't we?

Same deal with the Steelers. They were rotating their 3rd and 4th string RBs (both Bell and Williams were out)...who combined for 183 yards. They were also missing Ben for a couple series. It just seems other teams are able to adjust to their losses just fine against us. Whether it be at QB, RB, or any other position. 

[jowczarski]

@SHRacerX -  That isn't how it played out for Marty Shottenheimer, Andy Reid, or John Fox.  And I don't think the fans want to see him beyond this year.  Ticket sales are still important to the organization.  

Who makes their ticket buying decision based on a head coach? They don’t play. And ya, all those guys got fired or were let go…before Marvin :-D Who’s to say?

Re: Hue succession: The Bengals were even quoted as saying it was real.  

Nah. Marvin said it was some kind of conversation but that was only because he had to address it. Trust me, when it comes to how “real” it was – as in, actually sitting down with Mike and drawing up paperworks, etc. – it really wasn’t.

@Whatever
re: Hue

Time will obviously have to tell. He’s not in charge of personnel in Cleveland, at all.

@grampahol - the simple fact of the matter is that everyone stinks up until the point that they don't.

Oh so true. Honestly, Joe Maddon looked terrible as a manager in the World Series. Ned Yost (!) went to two and won one. In football, look at Billick, Vermeil, McCarthy, Gruden, Dungy and Payton. Issues all, before and after they get to their Super Bowls. I can tell you even in their local fan bases, people wonder just how good those guys were in the “magical year.”

Every coach has his flaws. Honestly, if the players make plays in certain instances – regardless of what is viewed as an “improper call” or “poor management” – everyone looks fantastic in the end. That just hasn’t happened for the Bengals since 1990.

@Shady - Although I think we blew it when we let Vance Joseph get away,

The only way to have kept him was to have fired Lewis and promoted Joseph to HC or a fellow assistant who would have had Joseph as his DC. It’s just not that easy.

@ShakeNBlake
we should've never fired Dave Shula

There were SO many other issues there that had nothing to do with football. You’ll see part of that later this week…

We've gone through at least 2 different core groups of players with Marvin Lewis and we've had the same results for going on 15 years now. At some point, you have to start looking at the guy who is not only getting these guys ready, prepared and oversees the game plans, but also is responsible for the drafting of these players

Fair.

[jowczarski]

grampahol - re: Cincy Jungle

That entire site is mostly them taking our stuff (and Hobson's) stuff and doing their own posts on it. It's an aggregator site, pure and simple.

I have more ... vibrant thoughts on that place but I'll leave it at that.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-02-2017, 09:12 PM)jowczarski Wrote: grampahol - re: Cincy Jungle

That entire site is mostly them taking our stuff (and Hobson's) stuff and doing their own posts on it. It's an aggregator site, pure and simple.

I have more ... vibrant thoughts on that place but I'll leave it at that.

I'm sure you love PFT then.