Bengals one of best "come from behind" teams since Dalton arrived

[CageTheBengal]

But Dalton is a scrub who can't even tie his own shoe laces without the rest of team.

[Dr. Bombay]

(06-25-2017, 10:45 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Swing the pendulum and tell us how many games they lost when they had the lead at one point?

Numbers are about the same.

Bengals have led at some point in 81 games since '11 (7th most in the league) and have a winning percentage of .728 in those games (6th best).

Kind of disproves the claim that Marvin loses a lot of games where he had the lead because he plays too conservative.

[*bfine32*]

(06-25-2017, 10:17 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: total lack of evidence to support this type of thinking.., I could just as well of said.. it the defense would not have sucked first 3 quarters, the QB would not have had to save them in the 4th quarter..

Tell it to Peyton Manning

[Dr. Bombay]

(06-25-2017, 12:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tell it to Peyton Manning

Peyton finished #1 in the league in fourth quarter comebacks 4 times and finished in the top ten 10 times.  

He is #1 all time in total fourth quarter comebacks, and the next 6 QBs behind him are Tom Brady, Dan Marino, John Unitas, John Elway, Joe Montana, and Bret Farve.

So to me it looks like a very good metric to measure QB pereformance.

[CageTheBengal]

In all honesty I think this is more of a reflection on Marvin than Dalton.

Remember the cardiac cats?

A theme for some of Marvn's teams was playing half a game. Game after game they would come out slow in the first half only to turn it on in the 2nd.

[Pat5775]

What about games played in Primetime, playoffs and vs the steelers?

Nobody is saying the team doesn't win during the regular season, that much is incredibly obvious since the start of the Green/Dalton era. But when the games really count, what happens? Same s*** we saw during the Carson/Chad/TJ era.

What's the one constant since then?

[*bfine32*]

(06-25-2017, 12:38 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Peyton finished #1 in the league in fourth quarter comebacks 4 times and finished in the top ten 10 times.  

He is #1 all time in total fourth quarter comebacks, and the next 6 QBs behind him are Tom Brady, Dan Marino, John Unitas, John Elway, Joe Montana, and Bret Farve.

So to me it looks like a very good metric to measure QB pereformance.

I'd also imagine those folks are near the top of the NFL in total wins, so I doubt it's some uncanny comeback gene.

Manning, Marino, Unitas, and Farve are also top 10 in UNTs. Is that a good metric to use?

WTS, simply sharing Peyton's thoughts on the matter when he was commended for his comeback victories. 

[Shake n Blake]

(06-24-2017, 12:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: “You hear about how many fourth-quarter comebacks that a guy has and I think it means a guy screwed up in the first three quarters.” ...Peyton Manning

I would expect a QB known for not being clutch to bash a clutch stat.

I doubt Joe Montana had much issue with comeback wins. The QB isn't always the reason the team was behind.

[Shake n Blake]

I really hope Dalton's career (like so many others) isn't wasted with Marvin Lewis.

As others have pointed out, we have 8 years worth of pre-Dalton evidence that Marv is the problem when it comes to Steelers, playoff and prime time games. We've also seen 3 others QBs play like ass in the playoffs. Apparently that's not enough evidence for some.

[xxlt]

(06-25-2017, 10:21 AM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Since 2011 the Bengals have trailed in fewer total games (69) than all but 5 other teams in the league.

Source?

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-24-2017, 07:34 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: It's all on Marvin the evidence is there before the Dalton era. Although i will say in defense of the PO losses only, outside of SD the team has been wrecked with bad luck and road games.

Here lets break it down again:
2005 - Palmer down
2009 - Cardiac cats "backed in"
2011 -  Wasn't even suppose to be in Houston
2012 - Growing pains in Houston
2013 - YEah we should have had that one at home.
2014 - All of our playmakers are on the bench in Indy ffs
2015 - Andy's thumb didn't want to play anymore. Season goes down the drain in EPIC fashion. Also ref bias

Under Marvin the team comes out strong and gets a  lead, takes it into halftime and then proceeds to shit it away until the final minutes of the fourth quarter. Most of the time. Or they just get blown out from the get go. It's usually either/or hence why i now own a defibrillator.

Precisely true on the playoff breakdown....and the SD loss should really be pinned on the defense's inability to stop the rush and Gio's fumble inside the 10.  Dalton did throw for 320 yards and a TD against a playoff team, but he had two picks as well.  One I didn't think was his fault.  Regardless, it is common knowledge that the easy way for the media to crap on the Bengals is the "Dalton sucks, especially in big games" when that is not the case.  

 

[Shake n Blake]

(06-24-2017, 07:34 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: It's all on Marvin the evidence is there before the Dalton era. Although i will say in defense of the PO losses only, outside of SD the team has been wrecked with bad luck and road games.

Here lets break it down again:
2005 - Palmer down (yeah but we still blew a 17-7 lead with a great backup QB...at home)
2009 - Cardiac cats "backed in" (we were at home and wasted a career game by Benson)
2011 -  Wasn't even suppose to be in Houston (we lost to TJ freaking Yates)
2012 - Growing pains in Houston (I guess? Young teams can win a wildcard game though. We should know that first hand)
2013 - YEah we should have had that one at home. (Ya think? Lol)
2014 - All of our playmakers are on the bench in Indy ffs (Indy was down to their 4th string RB...who burned us for 141 yards)
2015 - Andy's thumb didn't want to play anymore. Season goes down the drain in EPIC fashion. Also ref bias (Steelers were missing Bell AND DeAngelo + Ben for a stretch...Plus we were at home).

Under Marvin the team comes out strong and gets a  lead, takes it into halftime and then proceeds to shit it away until the final minutes of the fourth quarter. Most of the time. Or they just get blown out from the get go. It's usually either/or hence why i now own a defibrillator.

You'd think Marv would've lucked into one by now. It's kinda amazing that he's lost all 7...and that includes 4 games at PBS.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-25-2017, 02:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I really hope Dalton's career (like so many others) isn't wasted with Marvin Lewis.

As others have pointed out, we have 8 years worth of pre-Dalton evidence that Marv is the problem when it comes to Steelers, playoff and prime time games. We've also seen 3 others QBs play like ass in the playoffs. Apparently that's not enough evidence for some.

Manning, Brees, and Elway went a long time before reaching a Super Bowl Championship.  People will hammer Dalton for zero playoff wins, but it really doesn't matter when the ultimate goal is the final win.  Marino never got one.  

I think Dalton will start earning the respect he deserves after this season.  They are going to the Super Bowl and they are going to win it.  After that happens, the previous playoff record won't matter.  

[Shake n Blake]

(06-30-2017, 09:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Manning, Brees, and Elway went a long time before reaching a Super Bowl Championship.  People will hammer Dalton for zero playoff wins, but it really doesn't matter when the ultimate goal is the final win.  Marino never got one.  

I think Dalton will start earning the respect he deserves after this season.  They are going to the Super Bowl and they are going to win it.  After that happens, the previous playoff record won't matter.  

What do all 3 of those guys have in common? They all saw a dramatic improvement in their careers after a coaching change.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-30-2017, 11:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What do all 3 of those guys have in common? They all saw a dramatic improvement in their careers after a coaching change.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-26-2017, 08:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Precisely true on the playoff breakdown....and the SD loss should really be pinned on the defense's inability to stop the rush and Gio's fumble inside the 10.  Dalton did throw for 320 yards and a TD against a playoff team, but he had two picks as well.  One I didn't think was his fault.  Regardless, it is common knowledge that the easy way for the media to crap on the Bengals is the "Dalton sucks, especially in big games" when that is not the case.  

 

.....and our abandonment of BJGE before we were down more than 10, who historically played his best football against the Chargers.  He had 92 yards on them a few weeks prior out at Quaalcom.  You gotta admit too, that Dalton had a very untimely fumble.  The thing that gets me with a Mediocre Marv team in "bright light games", it always seems that one or two mistakes (a Palmer or Dalton INT, Hill's fumble, etc) leads to a team implosion.  The whole damn team goes full meltdown mode......smells of a coaching problem to me.  Think of all the INTs Brett Favre threw.  Did you see the Pack curled up in the fetal position with deer in the headlights looks on their faces?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-25-2017, 02:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I really hope Dalton's career (like so many others) isn't wasted with Marvin Lewis.

As others have pointed out, we have 8 years worth of pre-Dalton evidence that Marv is the problem when it comes to Steelers, playoff and prime time games. We've also seen 3 others QBs play like ass in the playoffs. Apparently that's not enough evidence for some.

Four, if you count John Kitna......

[Pat5775]

(06-30-2017, 01:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....and our abandonment of BJGE before we were down more than 10, who historically played his best football against the Chargers.  He had 92 yards on them a few weeks prior out at Quaalcom.  You gotta admit too, that Dalton had a very untimely fumble.  The thing that gets me with a Mediocre Marv team in "bright light games", it always seems that one or two mistakes (a Palmer or Dalton INT, Hill's fumble, etc) leads to a team implosion.  The whole damn team goes full meltdown mode......smells of a coaching problem to me.  Think of all the INTs Brett Favre threw.  Did you see the Pack curled up in the fetal position with deer in the headlights looks on their faces?

Exactly. There's no doubt in my mind it's a coaching issue. We've seen it happen countless times since 2003. Christ, you can see the look on Marv's face whenever there's an unfortunate turnover, that's when his deer-in-the-headlights look (I think he looks more like he just pooped his pants and the smell is making him cringe but I digress) is most prevalent.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-30-2017, 11:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What do all 3 of those guys have in common? They all saw a dramatic improvement in their careers after a coaching change.

Good point....but I will also add that Elway won his after Terrell Davis became such a great weapon for him.  Manning won his because, well, they always had the offense and they finally beat the Pats in the playoffs.  Brees won his with a very high-powered offense and a safety having the season of his life. 

I guess what I am trying to say is they didn't always have the team around them until late in their careers.  If they stay healthy, Dalton has the talent.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-30-2017, 01:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....and our abandonment of BJGE before we were down more than 10, who historically played his best football against the Chargers.  He had 92 yards on them a few weeks prior out at Quaalcom.  You gotta admit too, that Dalton had a very untimely fumble.  The thing that gets me with a Mediocre Marv team in "bright light games", it always seems that one or two mistakes (a Palmer or Dalton INT, Hill's fumble, etc) leads to a team implosion.  The whole damn team goes full meltdown mode......smells of a coaching problem to me.  Think of all the INTs Brett Favre threw.  Did you see the Pack curled up in the fetal position with deer in the headlights looks on their faces?

That's very true.  You could feel all the energy leave the stadium with Hill's fumble...it is like the whole team knew as well.