According to yahoo, Bengals tied with Giants for 18th best QB options in the NFL

[Pat5775]

(07-05-2017, 04:45 PM)Earendil Wrote: Why do you guys continue to take the bait from certain posters?  All you are doing is enabling them.

Haha hey you sound like me

That certain bait-dangling poster is no longer (twice, no longer). The poster in this thread that I think you're referring to is genuine (at least I think he is). He's a notorious Marvin supporter and Dalton hater but he truly believes what he says and doesn't try to start drama for his own amusement. 

[Earendil]

(07-05-2017, 06:22 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Haha hey you sound like me

That certain bait-dangling poster is no longer (twice, no longer). The poster in this thread that I think you're referring to is genuine (at least I think he is). He's a notorious Marvin supporter and Dalton hater but he truly believes what he says and doesn't try to start drama for his own amusement. 

Oh, I'm sure he is genuine.  Perhaps I shouldn't have called it bait, because it's an honest opinion.  But I've been gone for months, just to come back to the same argument from the same people that I left.  I think I'm going to take my own advice and ignore it.

[Housh]

I find it ironic someone used Matt Schaub as a way to downplay Andy's passer rating by using the same logic I used for keeping certain QBs off the top of my lists.

Matt didn't really destroy the league for his whole career so dude used that as a slight at him but hes ok with going into a season with sophomore QBs who haven't proved a damn thing.

[Hoofhearted]

(07-05-2017, 05:30 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Oh I think we all understand the real problem is Mike Brown ! But we can do nothing about that. 

Not that we can fire Marvin either. But make no mistake, ML is not part of the solution he's part of the problem. And that can change

it's really hard to tell how much is who's doing. I would venture to say that Marv and MB are probably the perfect fit for each other, if that tells you anything....

Spoiler: There will be no Bellicheck type coach under MB.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-05-2017, 01:27 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly !

Blaming our playoff losses under ML on Dalton is about equal to blaming the sinking of the Titanic on the guy shoveling coal down in engineering. Yes they're both integral parts of making it go, but the problems and incompetence are from above.

Dalton isn't responsible for having a gameplan that makes AJ Green a decoy for 2/3 of a game. Dalton isn't the one who chooses to run out the clock before halftime. Dalton isn't the one who says there will be no accountability on this team. Dalton isn't the one who decides Maualuga, Nugent, Hunt, Peko, Roland and on and on get to stay on this team way longer than they should. Dalton isn't the one that abandons the running game at the drop of a hat. One could go on and on. But suffice is to say those decisions are from above AD.

And in game Dalton doesn't give up 160 yards rushing a playoff game. Dalton isn't the one who's let rookie QB's shred our defense in the playoffs. Dalton isn't the one that only forced what 2 turnovers on D in the playoffs. Dalton isn't the one that's let opposing QB eat lunch, water the garden, and catch up on the local news while in the pocket with ZERO pressure in the playoffs. Again one could go on and on.

In summary there's a crap ton of blame to go around that has nothing to do with AD. Now to be fair has Dalton been one of the players in the playoff meltdowns ? No doubt !

But he's far from alone, and in my opinion not even close to the main cause.

Yes, that's the point in my sarcasm......Andy HAS to shoulder some of the blame, without question.  That said, it's patently obvious there are systemic breakdowns at every turn, qb play included, against playoff caliber teams throughout the year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-05-2017, 06:22 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Haha hey you sound like me

That certain bait-dangling poster is no longer (twice, no longer). The poster in this thread that I think you're referring to is genuine (at least I think he is). He's a notorious Marvin supporter and Dalton hater but he truly believes what he says and doesn't try to start drama for his own amusement. 

Agreed, bfine is a great debater, and knows his stuff.  We may not always agree, but I have the utmost respect for b...and always have.  I even appreciate his subtle sarcasm.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-04-2017, 04:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Pitt 05: Carson was getting ready to blow up Pittsburgh anyone who questions that is either fooling themselves or being disingenuous. Kitna comes in cold and throws as many playoff TDs as Andy has in his Career,

NYJ 09:  Game was on a field that was a sheet of ice

I forgot to address these and don't want to let you off the hook. 

Pitt 05: Just because the first play caught them by surprise doesn't mean Carson was about to go for 400 yards. The simple fact is that we'll never know how that game would've played out. That's not disingenuous, that's just reality. Kitna came in and looked great in the first half. Then halftime adjustments and boom...Kitna throws a couple killer INT's and leads the offense to 0 points in the 2nd half. Bottom line...it was a bad game from Kit.

NYJ 09: The actual field looked fine to me, and it didn't stop a rookie Mark Sanchez from racking up a 139.4 passer rating, which was more than double Palmer's 58.3. I'm sure we can all agree that Palmer was the far better QB. So what gives? Look at their receivers...somehow schemed to be wide open. Yet we have a pair of good veteran WRs and can't find ways to get them open? They always looked covered. Nothing surprised the opponents. It happens all the time with us.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-06-2017, 12:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I forgot to address these and don't want to let you off the hook. 

Pitt 05: Just because the first play caught them by surprise doesn't mean Carson was about to go for 400 yards. The simple fact is that we'll never know how that game would've played out. That's not disingenuous, that's just reality. Kitna came in and looked great in the first half. Then halftime adjustments and boom...Kitna throws a couple killer INT's and leads the offense to 0 points in the 2nd half. Bottom line...it was a bad game from Kit.

NYJ 09: The actual field looked fine to me, and it didn't stop a rookie Mark Sanchez from racking up a 139.4 passer rating, which was more than double Palmer's 58.3. I'm sure we can all agree that Palmer was the far better QB. So what gives?

I was at that game.....it sure was cold, and I was warming up with some adult elixirs, but I don't recall a frozen field either.  To be fair, I DID fall up an escalator that evening after the game.....  

Just look at that killer D.....lol. Cedric Benson played his heart out that night, too bad not many others did.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-06-2017, 12:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: I was at that game.....it sure was cold, and I was warming up with some adult elixirs, but I don't recall a frozen field either.  To be fair, I DID fall up an escalator that evening after the game.....  

Just look at that killer D.....lol.  Cedric Benson played his heart out that night, too bad not many others did.

Benson showed up to play that game, it's just a shame the entire rest of the team (basically speaking) phoned it in.

And it's a recurring theme under ML. With just a handful of exceptions, playoffs excluded off course.

Oh and for the record I don't have a problem with bfine either. I even agree with him on some stuff, I don't agree with him on ML and AD is all.

And even more for the record I don't think AD is the greatest thing since sliced bread either. But I do feel he's more than capable of winning under the right leadership/team/coaching. 

[Pat5775]

(07-06-2017, 12:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I forgot to address these and don't want to let you off the hook. 

Pitt 05: Just because the first play caught them by surprise doesn't mean Carson was about to go for 400 yards. The simple fact is that we'll never know how that game would've played out. That's not disingenuous, that's just reality. Kitna came in and looked great in the first half. Then halftime adjustments and boom...Kitna throws a couple killer INT's and leads the offense to 0 points in the 2nd half. Bottom line...it was a bad game from Kit.

NYJ 09: The actual field looked fine to me, and it didn't stop a rookie Mark Sanchez from racking up a 139.4 passer rating, which was more than double Palmer's 58.3. I'm sure we can all agree that Palmer was the far better QB. So what gives? Look at their receivers...somehow schemed to be wide open. Yet we have a pair of good veteran WRs and can't find ways to get them open? They always looked covered. Nothing surprised the opponents. It happens all the time with us.

Ugh the jets playoff game. Had to be one of, if not the worst, game played by defensive backs in playoff history. Blown coverage galore, jogging after relievers, weak-ass shoves over tackles? Disgusting... Then add in Shayne looking like modern day Mike Nugent. Just an all-around, embarrassing collapse. 

[BonnieBengal]

(06-29-2017, 02:55 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tom-brady-matt-ryan-ranking-every-nfl-teams-quarterback-situation-185432048.html

I'm not exactly a Dalton homer though I'm far from a hater. But are they serious? They made it sound like the sacks he took last year were all his fault, yet they praise 9th ranked Russell Wilson for making the Seahawks good in a "bad year" and mention his offensive line the worst in the league. They didn't even take into account Dalton was up there in the 2015 MVP talk with Newton and Palmer before his thumb injury. Dalton may not be top ten worthy but he's certainly better than "tied for 18th". Blows my mind how we (mainly, Dalton) never gets any respect.

We're the Bengals.  We rarely get any media love.  We'll have to prove them wrong.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-06-2017, 12:58 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Benson showed up to play that game, it's just a shame the entire rest of the team (basically speaking) phoned it in.

And it's a recurring theme under ML. With just a handful of exceptions, playoffs excluded off course.

Oh and for the record I don't have a problem with bfine either. I even agree with him on some stuff, I don't agree with him on ML and AD is all.

And even more for the record I don't think AD is the greatest thing since sliced bread either. But I do feel he's more than capable of winning under the right leadership/team/coaching. 

Absolutely agree.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-06-2017, 01:50 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Ugh the jets playoff game. Had to be one of, if not the worst, game played by defensive backs in playoff history. Blown coverage galore, jogging after relievers, weak-ass shoves over tackles? Disgusting... Then add in Shayne looking like modern day Mike Nugent. Just an all-around, embarrassing collapse. 

It was tough to see that career game from Benson go to waste. He's on the short list of players who brought their A game for Marvin in the playoffs.

Of course, he was the opposite against the Texans (7 carries, 14 yards, key drop), so even he wasn't immune.

[*bfine32*]

(07-06-2017, 12:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: I was at that game.....it sure was cold, and I was warming up with some adult elixirs, but I don't recall a frozen field either.  To be fair, I DID fall up an escalator that evening after the game.....  

Just look at that killer D.....lol.  Cedric Benson played his heart out that night, too bad not many others did.

If memory serves Chad slipped on the field and injured his elbow during warm ups. Of course you guys are most likely correct.  

[*bfine32*]

(07-06-2017, 12:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I forgot to address these and don't want to let you off the hook. 

Pitt 05: Just because the first play caught them by surprise doesn't mean Carson was about to go for 400 yards. The simple fact is that we'll never know how that game would've played out. That's not disingenuous, that's just reality. Kitna came in and looked great in the first half. Then halftime adjustments and boom...Kitna throws a couple killer INT's and leads the offense to 0 points in the 2nd half. Bottom line...it was a bad game from Kit.

NYJ 09: The actual field looked fine to me, and it didn't stop a rookie Mark Sanchez from racking up a 139.4 passer rating, which was more than double Palmer's 58.3. I'm sure we can all agree that Palmer was the far better QB. So what gives? Look at their receivers...somehow schemed to be wide open. Yet we have a pair of good veteran WRs and can't find ways to get them open? They always looked covered. Nothing surprised the opponents. It happens all the time with us.

Andy is 4th out of 4 QBs that have played for Marvin in the Post season

Andy is 15th out of 15 active QBs in the NFL that have played in the post season.

Whose fault is that? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-06-2017, 07:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If memory serves Chad slipped on the field and injured his elbow during warm ups. Of course you guys are most likely correct.  

They had the field cleared, I remember the slush piled up in the end zones, I have no idea when they cleared it.  I wasn't there for warm ups, so I can't comment on that.  Benson had a very nice game on the ground, and guys were making tip toe catches and running crisp routes....that tells me the turf was at least in decent shape by game time.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-06-2017, 07:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Andy is 4th out of 4 QBs that have played for Marvin in the Post season

Andy is 15th out of 15 active QBs in the NFL that have played in the post season.

Whose fault is that? 

They were all bad. Not just QBs. The entire team. 7 times.

Whose fault is that?

[*bfine32*]

(07-07-2017, 05:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They were all bad. Not just QBs. The entire team. 7 times.

Whose fault is that?

The entire team has not been bad. There have been some standout performances:

Benson's 168 yard performance in '09

Green-Ellis running for over 5 ypc, Leon's pick 6, Green's 80 yard performance in '12

Marvin's 130 yard performance, Gresh with 68 and a TD, Rey's 12 tackle game in '13

V.Rey with 6 tackles and an FF, the RBs combining for over 10 catches and 100 yards in '14

Green with 71 and a TD, Burfict with 5 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack, and 1 FF in '15

We've had plenty folks show up; yet some will look to dismiss these to divert blame from the elephant in the room. It's just you're fighting from both sides when your QB and team leader is out there absolutely stinking it up. The fact that we've come close to overcoming these performances 2-3 times is amazing. Some would just look to dimiss these,

I know you and many other want to say it is the fault of a HC with a defensive pedigree that Andy has shit the bed 4 straight times; however, it is not a logic I can buy. The QB has choked; who knows why? In Carson's case I remember reading a study by Carl Jung that explained his personality type would cause him to crash on the big stage; perhaps he needs to study Andy and Mikey come off the dime to pay for a couple sports psychologists. 

Oh, and even though you did not answer my question I will answer yours directly if the above didn't point to it. Any player that played poorly in any game is the fault of the player.

[Luvnit2]

(07-07-2017, 09:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: They had the field cleared, I remember the slush piled up in the end zones, I have no idea when they cleared it.  I wasn't there for warm ups, so I can't comment on that.  Benson had a very nice game on the ground, and guys were making tip toe catches and running crisp routes....that tells me the turf was at least in decent shape by game time.

I think you are confusing the game played in week 17 at NY that year or another year. We played the Jets on a frozen field, but not at home.

[Luvnit2]

(07-07-2017, 09:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The entire team has not been bad. There have been some standout performances:

Benson's 168 yard performance in '09

Green-Ellis running for over 5 ypc, Leon's pick 6, Green's 80 yard performance in '12

Marvin's 130 yard performance, Gresh with 68 and a TD, Rey's 12 tackle game in '13

V.Rey with 6 tackles and an FF, the RBs combining for over 10 catches and 100 yards in '14

Green with 71 and a TD, Burfict with 5 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack, and 1 FF in '15

We've had plenty folks show up; yet some will look to dismiss these to divert blame from the elephant in the room. It's just you're fighting from both sides when your QB and team leader is out there absolutely stinking it up. The fact that we've come close to overcoming these performances 2-3 times is amazing. Some would just look to dimiss these,

I know you and many other want to say it is the fault of a HC with a defensive pedigree that Andy has shit the bed 4 straight times; however, it is not a logic I can buy. The QB has choked; who knows why? In Carson's case I remember reading a study by Carl Jung that explained his personality type would cause him to crash on the big stage; perhaps he needs to study Andy and Mikey come off the dime to pay for a couple sports psychologists. 

Oh, and even though you did not answer my question I will answer yours directly if the above didn't point to it. Any player that played poorly in any game is the fault of the player.

I agree and as I looked back, our future HOF receiver dropped a TD against the Chargers (around 50 yards) in the home loss. He also dropped a TD pass against the Texans. Those 2 drops hurt AD's QB rating in playoff games.

But my main point of your argument is you are using around 5% of the games AD has started as your 100% analysis of him. You ignore his numbers are better than most active QB's in the regular season, but inflate his poor numbers in the post season. One playoff game, he has Rex B. has his best receiver option. He also played at Houston (great defense) as a rookie and 2nd year QB with a rookie and 2nd year number 1 receiver who is great, but made a lot of mistakes in the early years too.