"Banner" Year

[*SHRacerX*]

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Brown-looking-for-a-banner-season/28d5f123-05d0-4ce3-b5ab-08d3ed510220

Ok, I have been pretty hard on the Bengals about not having a "Jungle Legends" or "Ring of Honor" in the past, so I have to be fair and say that I think this is really cool.

I am very excited that the team is finally trying to connect with some of the great history of their past. Mike Brown even explains why he has been reluctant in the past.

Great stuff. Who Dey!

[Hoofhearted]

Good stuff, I like they're finally wising up to honoring previous Bengal greats. But this quote gave me a little chuckle:

Quote:Lewis knows the Mike Brown myths.

“That he cares about money when it comes to football,” Lewis says. “(But) whatever it takes for the football team to win he is 100 percent. That’s probably the biggest myth. I don’t think there is anybody in this building that wants to win more and takes satisfaction quietly. Never show it outside, the inward satisfaction he takes in winning is huge. He enjoys it and moves on.”

Is that so??????

[grampahol]

People are generally much more complex than the characterizations we read about or even just think about. I don't subscribe to the nilly willy generalizations of most people although there are exceptions such as my niece who is generally regarded as a stupid git with the intelligence of a rusty hinge. She has proven time and time again that rusty hinges have a much higher intelligence than herself. 
Brown on the other hand doesn't spend all day posting selfies and pretending to a gazillion times superior to everyone else or at least I don't think he does. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Made me feel better about Mikey honestly.

Liked that he isn't going to extend Marv right now, prodding him to get that Playoff win.

That is what i didn't like a few years ago, extending Marv takes away the urgency of that year.

Also, Mike Brown does care about Adam's family, have to like the man as a person.

[*Go Cards*]

Good read, thanks for posting

[Hoofhearted]

(07-26-2017, 12:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Made me feel better about Mikey honestly.

Liked that he isn't going to extend Marv right now, prodding him to get that Playoff win.

That is what i didn't like a few years ago, extending Marv takes away the urgency of that year.

Also, Mike Brown does care about Adam's family, have to like the man as a person.

Not me really. he did something that should of been done a long time ago. I will give him credit for doing it, but I mean why did it take this long and so many fans asking it for you to do it? 

And you're right, if this was Joey Bench warmer, MB wouldn't bat an eye cutting him. He makes it sound like he's genuine, but alot of this is just media rhetoric. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-26-2017, 02:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Not me really. he did something that should of been done a long time ago. I will give him credit for doing it, but I mean why did it take this long and so many fans asking it for you to do it? 

And you're right, if this was Joey Bench warmer, MB wouldn't bat an eye cutting him. He makes it sound like he's genuine, but alot of this is just media rhetoric. 

I don't know, a lot of this is presumption but one thing i do know is he is loyal to a fault lots of times.

With Marv, PA and with Adam. I would of got a new HC and new O-line coach after last year and cut Adam after this last incident.

MB i think gets too close to certain people at times and forgets this is a business.

Results man, results.

But like i said, not extending Marv makes me feel better about the man.

[Hoofhearted]

(07-26-2017, 02:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't know, a lot of this is presumption but one thing i do know is he is loyal to a fault lots of times.

With Marv, PA and with Adam. I would of got a new HC and new O-line coach after last year and cut Adam after this last incident.

MB i think gets too close to certain people at times and forgets this is a business.

Results man, results.

But like i said, not extending Marv makes me feel better about the man.

It's a step in the right direction, but again, what I quoted above was a lie. If he was 100% committed to winning, why don't we have a practice facility? Why does he make tax payers pay for so much stuff? Why is it this last year that made him push Marv more? So this ruins any credibility for giving me a straight up answer to a hard question.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-26-2017, 03:07 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It's a step in the right direction, but again, what I quoted above was a lie. If he was 100% committed to winning, why don't we have a practice facility? Why does he make tax payers pay for so much stuff? Why is it this last year that made him push Marv more? So this ruins any credibility for giving me a straight up answer to a hard question.

And he would take Free Agency more serious like Kraft if this was the case.

Of course Marv lied. MB is cheap at times and we all know it.

[Hoofhearted]

(07-26-2017, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And he would take Free Agency more serious like Kraft if this was the case.

Of course Marv lied. MB is cheap at times and we all know it.

I would also say his "commitment" level for winning is 80%, just above average

[sandwedge]

(07-26-2017, 03:07 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It's a step in the right direction, but again, what I quoted above was a lie. If he was 100% committed to winning, why don't we have a practice facility? Why does he make tax payers pay for so much stuff? Why is it this last year that made him push Marv more? So this ruins any credibility for giving me a straight up answer to a hard question.

We do have a practice facility, just not indoors. Personally I don't think that would get us over the hump though. 
As for 2nd question, just guessing here. MB likes ML and this is the last chance for ML in his mind. I can see where it would be hard to fire a HC after 5 straight playoff appearances and then have a bad season full of injuries to your line-up.

I don't know, I have mixed thoughts on MB. I have no doubt the man wants to win, very smart and fiscally sound man. I honestly think he is stuck in the past. And maybe sometimes to nice of a man for this business in today's NFL world.

[XenoMorph]

(07-26-2017, 03:07 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It's a step in the right direction, but again, what I quoted above was a lie. If he was 100% committed to winning, why don't we have a practice facility? Why does he make tax payers pay for so much stuff? Why is it this last year that made him push Marv more? So this ruins any credibility for giving me a straight up answer to a hard question.

Well you should ask Cincinnati city council about the second part they are the ones that agreed to terms on the deal..

don't blame mike brown for getting a good deal

[HarleyDog]

Well, it's already a banner year because he gave season ticket holders a banner in the mail. There we go.

I read where he wants to win more than anybody, but we've lost some players because they disagree. Maybe he's turned a leaf? Maybe a SB is now part of his bucket list and the price to get there will not be as important as the goal itself. Maybe his thrive to get there will catapult this organization into 6 SB championships in the next 15yrs and carry on a tremendous amount of pride that no future owner or GM can ever think or fathom about restraining. I'm trying to stay positive, but since 1991 when he took the stage, fans have been put on the back seat, as well as players. Sitting in the front seat was money and all things revolved around the main goal of retaining it.

Money in his eyes seemed to me his main motivator. However, there's money in winning also. I don't think he realized that as a savvy business man. Why? He's not a risk taker. Sure, he has invested in high risk players but only because they came at a good price. Getting a good price at the point of sale is a guarantee. So, we shall see if he has turned the corner and his goal is winning the SB. I truly hope so, but have to reveal why I'm skeptical. Our roster says he is. Our OL says, he trusts ML and the staff to deliver (wont go there). So, here's to a friggin banner season for all, not delivered via U.S. Mail!

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-26-2017, 10:15 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Well, it's already a banner year because he gave season ticket holders a banner in the mail. There we go.

I read where he wants to win more than anybody, but we've lost some players because they disagree. Maybe he's turned a leaf? Maybe a SB is now part of his bucket list and the price to get there will not be as important as the goal itself. Maybe his thrive to get there will catapult this organization into 6 SB championships in the next 15yrs and carry on a tremendous amount of pride that no future owner or GM can ever think or fathom about restraining. I'm trying to stay positive, but since 1991 when he took the stage, fans have been put on the back seat, as well as players. Sitting in the front seat was money and all things revolved around the main goal of retaining it.

Money in his eyes seemed to me his main motivator. However, there's money in winning also. I don't think he realized that as a savvy business man. Why? He's not a risk taker. Sure, he has invested in high risk players but only because they came at a good price. Getting a good price at the point of sale is a guarantee. So, we shall see if he has turned the corner and his goal is winning the SB. I truly hope so, but have to reveal why I'm skeptical. Our roster says he is. Our OL says, he trusts ML and the staff to deliver (wont go there). So, here's to a friggin banner season for all, not delivered via U.S. Mail!

What does that mean?  We lost Whit because he turns 36 during the season and he wanted a three year deal?  And $12 million per year for Zeitler was incredibly stupid.  That was a blatant "eat cap space with a fairly young guy" deal.  There were draft picks that would have significantly outperformed Zeitler for a fraction of the cost.  

And it is easy to talk about him spending more of his cash because his dad made an incredible investment of $20,000 or some that is now worth a billion, but we are asking him to spend his liquid cash on things like an indoor practice facility.  He at least has access to one...The bottom line is that he spend VERY fairly on his players that earn it, and he (unlike virtually every other owner in the NFL) honors their contracts.  It is also very commonly dismissed that he has had one of the highest paid coaching staffs in the league.  He was paying Gruden, Zimmer, and Marv good money to stay on as coaches...even raised Gruden's salary when he was still under contract because he felt he had earned it.  

I love you, man.  Your posts have made me spit so much coffee at the screen that it has a permanent browning tint.  You are the Jedi master of GIFs, but this "Mike Brown doesn't want to win and is cheap" crap just isn't accurate.  Besides, it is mostly Katie, Troy, and Marv running the team.  I just think the guy deserves SOME credit for putting together this roster, for finally reaching in to some of the rich history of this team, and for caring about his players as people and not just a bunch of assets that are only here to make him money.  

[HarleyDog]

(07-27-2017, 12:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What does that mean?  We lost Whit because he turns 36 during the season and he wanted a three year deal?  And $12 million per year for Zeitler was incredibly stupid.  That was a blatant "eat cap space with a fairly young guy" deal.  There were draft picks that would have significantly outperformed Zeitler for a fraction of the cost.  

And it is easy to talk about him spending more of his cash because his dad made an incredible investment of $20,000 or some that is now worth a billion, but we are asking him to spend his liquid cash on things like an indoor practice facility.  He at least has access to one...The bottom line is that he spend VERY fairly on his players that earn it, and he (unlike virtually every other owner in the NFL) honors their contracts.  It is also very commonly dismissed that he has had one of the highest paid coaching staffs in the league.  He was paying Gruden, Zimmer, and Marv good money to stay on as coaches...even raised Gruden's salary when he was still under contract because he felt he had earned it.  

I love you, man.  Your posts have made me spit so much coffee at the screen that it has a permanent browning tint.  You are the Jedi master of GIFs, but this "Mike Brown doesn't want to win and is cheap" crap just isn't accurate.  Besides, it is mostly Katie, Troy, and Marv running the team.  I just think the guy deserves SOME credit for putting together this roster, for finally reaching in to some of the rich history of this team, and for caring about his players as people and not just a bunch of assets that are only here to make him money.  

My response was not meant as aggressive in nature to MB, I was giving an opinion. I'm not speaking of whit and Zeitler. I am talking of players in the organization through the years who thought they were not serious about winning and wanted out. Those are the players I am referring to. As far as him being cheap, I don't stand alone in this perception. There have been countless threads and opinions regarding this because, well, he has portrayed this in the past. So what I'm saying is I hope he has turned a corner. I'm serious when I say I hope he makes us a powerhouse that wins many championships going forward. Hell, which Bengal fan doesn't want this? Yet its hard to believe in him year after year when we have ML still hanging around after all his failures. He has always seemed to me to lack the desire, or has let personal feelings override right decisions which needed to be met.

My mind wants to get so excited about this team and embrace it with 100% devotion and commitment of my belief's they are going to do great things this year and win it all. Then my heart says, "Whoa, we've been here before." So, my opinion on Mike is not one which gives me much trust in his words. I feel it's time to be a man of action and not a man of words. Start showing a sense of urgency. Just my opinion.

P.S. I love you too man!

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-27-2017, 07:37 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: My response was not meant as aggressive in nature to MB, I was giving an opinion. I'm not speaking of whit and Zeitler. I am talking of players in the organization through the years who thought they were not serious about winning and wanted out. Those are the players I am referring to. As far as him being cheap, I don't stand alone in this perception. There have been countless threads and opinions regarding this because, well, he has portrayed this in the past. So what I'm saying is I hope he has turned a corner. I'm serious when I say I hope he makes us a powerhouse that wins many championships going forward. Hell, which Bengal fan doesn't want this? Yet its hard to believe in him year after year when we have ML still hanging around after all his failures. He has always seemed to me to lack the desire, or has let personal feelings override right decisions which needed to be met.

My mind wants to get so excited about this team and embrace it with 100% devotion and commitment of my belief's they are going to do great things this year and win it all. Then my heart says, "Whoa, we've been here before." So, my opinion on Mike is not one which gives me much trust in his words. I feel it's time to be a man of action and not a man of words. Start showing a sense of urgency. Just my opinion.

P.S. I love you too man!

I get ya.  I think releasing an uneducated fan favorite, Maualuga, went a long way to showing this for me...and signing the younger, faster Minter.

The best teams (except New England, apparently) all build through the draft and avoid overpaying for Free Agents because they whiff more than they connect.  The Bengals were one of the worst drafting teams in the 90s, but they have been one of the best over the past decade.  I know the Bengals were often chided for their lack of more scouts and the fact that the coaches would take flights back on Sat night from games to coach on Sundays screamed of frugality.  

However, a lot of those coaches really wanted to be a part of that process, and requested the travel over films study.  

I know in the past the training camps at Wilmington were notoriously cheap (no AC, etc) but at the same time, there weren't players getting arrested at Wilmington and I believe Brown and the Bengals thought they were making the players tougher with the bare-bones camp. 

There have been lots of things that pointed at cheap, but there have been a lot of things of late that have fought to change that perception and a perception can be very difficult to change.  Having Marv as a lame duck has also gone a long way to convey "win or we move on".

I am beyond excited for the young, in their prime, team they have assembled.  And even though he drives me nuts from time to time, I am glad Marv is getting this last shot.  He helped get them here....I hope he is the first one to hoist a Lombardi.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-27-2017, 07:37 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: My response was not meant as aggressive in nature to MB, I was giving an opinion. I'm not speaking of whit and Zeitler. I am talking of players in the organization through the years who thought they were not serious about winning and wanted out. Those are the players I am referring to. As far as him being cheap, I don't stand alone in this perception. There have been countless threads and opinions regarding this because, well, he has portrayed this in the past. So what I'm saying is I hope he has turned a corner. I'm serious when I say I hope he makes us a powerhouse that wins many championships going forward. Hell, which Bengal fan doesn't want this? Yet its hard to believe in him year after year when we have ML still hanging around after all his failures. He has always seemed to me to lack the desire, or has let personal feelings override right decisions which needed to be met.

My mind wants to get so excited about this team and embrace it with 100% devotion and commitment of my belief's they are going to do great things this year and win it all. Then my heart says, "Whoa, we've been here before." So, my opinion on Mike is not one which gives me much trust in his words. I feel it's time to be a man of action and not a man of words. Start showing a sense of urgency. Just my opinion.

P.S. I love you too man!

Completely agree with you Harley, great posts in a row.

(07-27-2017, 08:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get ya.  I think releasing an uneducated fan favorite, Maualuga, went a long way to showing this for me...and signing the younger, faster Minter.

The best teams (except New England, apparently) all build through the draft and avoid overpaying for Free Agents because they whiff more than they connect.  The Bengals were one of the worst drafting teams in the 90s, but they have been one of the best over the past decade.  I know the Bengals were often chided for their lack of more scouts and the fact that the coaches would take flights back on Sat night from games to coach on Sundays screamed of frugality.  

However, a lot of those coaches really wanted to be a part of that process, and requested the travel over films study.  

I know in the past the training camps at Wilmington were notoriously cheap (no AC, etc) but at the same time, there weren't players getting arrested at Wilmington and I believe Brown and the Bengals thought they were making the players tougher with the bare-bones camp. 

There have been lots of things that pointed at cheap, but there have been a lot of things of late that have fought to change that perception and a perception can be very difficult to change.  Having Marv as a lame duck has also gone a long way to convey "win or we move on".

I am beyond excited for the young, in their prime, team they have assembled.  And even though he drives me nuts from time to time, I am glad Marv is getting this last shot.  He helped get them here....I hope he is the first one to hoist a Lombardi.

This is one hell of a team they put together, we both agree but once in awhile we just would like to see that gamble
that Harley is talking about here. Like a Ricky Wagner at OT or a Calais Campbell at DE, that would show all of us this
whole cheap thought is a thing of the past.

This team drafts as good as anyone but in order to win it all we have to go through the Patriots and they just won the
Superbowl and got to work in FA making their team better making moves. They don't wait on the Draft like we seem to.

If these players can stay healthy for the most part they could carry Marv to a SB, that is how talented this roster is.

How do you beat the Patriots, you get after Brady and get him off the field, then score points and run the damn ball.

This team is set up to do this if all falls into place.

[HarleyDog]

(07-27-2017, 01:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If these players can stay healthy for the most part they could carry Marv to a SB, that is how talented this roster is.

How do you beat the Patriots, you get after Brady and get him off the field, then score points and run the damn ball.

This team is set up to do this if all falls into place.

Heres the other issue which has been tossed around a million times. So much that I hate repeating it. However, if ML does not take a different approach on rookies, all of this talent is just on paper which does us no good if it barely hits the field. They need to be prepped hard and fast to be ready out the gate. Yes, knowing there will be some mistakes, it's a path I feel we must take.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-27-2017, 02:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Heres the other issue which has been tossed around a million times. So much that I hate repeating it. However, if ML does not take a different approach on rookies, all of this talent is just on paper which does us no good if it barely hits the field. They need to be prepped hard and fast to be ready out the gate. Yes, knowing there will be some mistakes, it's a path I feel we must take.

Most definately, but Guenther is willing to do these things on Defense, we saw this last season.

Too bad Marv stabbed him in the back after he made those comments during the bye. This really pizzed me off.

His DC talks about changing things up and then Marv stabbed him in the back.

Also i must add that Boyd was pretty much a starter at Slot all last season as a rookie and we have had lots of rookies
start for us before on Offense. Dalton, Green, Eifert, Bodine and with Ross being a top 10 pick and Gio coming off of
injury and Hill playing like crap i see Mixon getting significant snaps.

Plus Willis and especially Lawson have been getting big time praise. Billings and WJ3 both got injured as rookies so
we don't know if one of them especially Billings would of gotten the start by atleast midseason last year over Peko.

We might just be finally taking the path you speak of.