O line struggeling

[Socal Bengals fan]

Why is anyone surprised OG. Is struggling? He sucked playing right tackle against slower DE how is moving him to the left side going to make him better. When he has to compete against faster pass rushers. Just because he has the build of a LT does not mean he belongs there. I don't care how he looks in shorts because on the football field he is soft as hell. Don't be surprised if Fisher moves to the left side.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-06-2017, 11:36 AM)Pat5775 Wrote:
The only person who has ever been impressed with PA is Mike Brown. If the two weren't so chummy he would have (should have) been fired decades ago. Anybody who honestly believes the likes of Dennis Roland, Nate Livings and Eric Ghaicuc (guys who PA constantly not only stuck up for but hyped them up as the greatest things since sliced bread) had any business on an NFL field has no business coaching in the NFL. Now it seems like Ogbuehi and Fisher might be the next generation of PA failures. But of course he won't admit his mistake and will keep playing them and defending them until the bitter end 

Oh, but that's simply not true at all.  I've seen at least on poster that keeps digging up some ancient SI article that sings the praises of Paul Alexander.  Don't you know, Piano Man is a living legend. 

[Pat5775]

(08-06-2017, 01:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oh, but that's simply not true at all.  I've seen at least on poster that keeps digging up some ancient SI article that sings the praises of Paul Alexander.  Don't you know, Piano Man is a living legend. 

[jj22]

Oline struggle's being reported are real. Maybe the defense is on to them. Knows the offensive playbook. Hopefully they get better. No doubt it was a huge gamble not to have a backup plan at LT.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-05-2017, 04:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lawson is looking like the steal of the draft so far. Precisely the type of player we needed.

Plays with fire and intensity and is smart.

And that will push Willis and MJ.  Love the competition at such a key spot that has seemingly been ignored with the drafting of MJ clones in Hunt and Clark.  Ask any LT what they hate the most, and they will tell you speed.  Willis and Lawson have it, and strength, in spades.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-05-2017, 05:35 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I thought first team oline keep Willis in check... he played fine just did not shine

Thanks for the update on a guy we haven't heard word one about...Was he lined up at RDE or LDE?

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-06-2017, 10:38 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't forget the obligatory shuttle-pass in there..

3rd and 12, DRAW PLAY!  Hey, Paul Brown did invent it...

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-06-2017, 10:39 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: Wow that is frustrating. Yeah, maybe a trade like that makes sense. I'm still unhappy we didn't get a backup LT in the draft this year -- could've at least competed with Ced O. 

You really have to wonder if the Dalton will be durable enough down the stretch if we don't get better at pass pro. 

This was my only rub about this year's draft.  I didn't want Mixon, although I am warming up to him, I wanted him to get a shot somewhere else...not in Cincy.  I blame me not wanting Mixon (unfairly) on the Bengals keeping Jones after his off-field tirade this year. 

What did I want in the second round?  To try and trade up to the back end of Rd 1 and draft Cam Robinson.  

I hope I am wrong, but I think they have placed all their chips on one number (70) and it may crap.  The backup plan of Fisher to LT and Andre Smith to RT doesn't sound very solid, either, as Smith can't seem to stay healthy....at least not through a 16 game season.

I am hoping and praying that Ced sticks to the technique work and uses his (supposedly) outstanding athleticism and gets the job done, but as many have heard the old saying:  "Hope is not a strategy".  

[Whatever]

(08-06-2017, 02:20 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This was my only rub about this year's draft.  I didn't want Mixon, although I am warming up to him, I wanted him to get a shot somewhere else...not in Cincy.  I blame me not wanting Mixon (unfairly) on the Bengals keeping Jones after his off-field tirade this year. 

What did I want in the second round?  To try and trade up to the back end of Rd 1 and draft Cam Robinson.  

I hope I am wrong, but I think they have placed all their chips on one number (70) and it may crap.  The backup plan of Fisher to LT and Andre Smith to RT doesn't sound very solid, either, as Smith can't seem to stay healthy....at least not through a 16 game season.

I am hoping and praying that Ced sticks to the technique work and uses his (supposedly) outstanding athleticism and gets the job done, but as many have heard the old saying:  "Hope is not a strategy".  

Reports out of Jags camp are that Robinson has been getting beaten for sacks by both the starters and backups after being inserted as the starting LT after Albert retired.

It sucks, but this year's OL class was awful.  That's a big reason Whit and Z got the deals they got.  The best ways to help a mediocre OL a QB with a fast release and a great RB, which we now hopefully have both.  

[Luvnit2]

(08-06-2017, 02:20 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This was my only rub about this year's draft.  I didn't want Mixon, although I am warming up to him, I wanted him to get a shot somewhere else...not in Cincy.  I blame me not wanting Mixon (unfairly) on the Bengals keeping Jones after his off-field tirade this year. 

What did I want in the second round?  To try and trade up to the back end of Rd 1 and draft Cam Robinson.  

I hope I am wrong, but I think they have placed all their chips on one number (70) and it may crap.  The backup plan of Fisher to LT and Andre Smith to RT doesn't sound very solid, either, as Smith can't seem to stay healthy....at least not through a 16 game season.

I am hoping and praying that Ced sticks to the technique work and uses his (supposedly) outstanding athleticism and gets the job done, but as many have heard the old saying:  "Hope is not a strategy".  

I say with all due respect, drafting any OT in round 2 or later in the 2017 draft was not a pick for 2017, but for the future as in 2018 or beyond. Cam Robinson is struggling mightily in Jags camp and likely will be bad in 2017 as well.

A healthy Mixon could be Zeke Elliott type result for us in 2017 making us a much better team in 2017, a Cam Robinson is a future pick and not ready to be a good tackle just yet in the NFL in my humble opinion

[BoomerFan]

(08-06-2017, 02:20 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This was my only rub about this year's draft.  I didn't want Mixon, although I am warming up to him, I wanted him to get a shot somewhere else...not in Cincy.  I blame me not wanting Mixon (unfairly) on the Bengals keeping Jones after his off-field tirade this year. 

What did I want in the second round?  To try and trade up to the back end of Rd 1 and draft Cam Robinson.  

It is like you're reading my mind. Though I might've tried to trade down further (or even just reached for need) and taken Antonio Garcia (went in the 3rd round) or even Julien Davenport (went in the 4th). And maybe they wouldn't be an improvement, but when you have two guys who are struggling at a position maybe they could help each other out. As it is, we are just so, so stuck with Ced now. 

The other thought I'm having is, no matter how great your RB is, if your O-line can't open holes for you, block at the second level, or gives you long down and distance situations due to your QB getting harassed and sacked, that's almost not fair to the RB. 

[Aquapod770]

Our Oline was the worst it's been in a while last year and we lose our 2 best starters from it and replace them with two, at best, huge question marks. I'll be shocked if we win 8 games and/or Dalton lasts more than half the season.

[samhain]

This all sounds very familiar, unfortunately. They struggled last camp as well. We told ourselves that our d-line was just so good that the o-line couldn't hang. Then the Vikings came to town and made them look like clowns in joint practices. Okay, so the Vikes had some talent on their d-line, too. Then the season came and things were what they were.

We've seen this movie before.

Ogbuehi has everything a NFL LT needs save one wrinkle, i.e. toughness. He does things right in practice. He works hard. He's plenty athletic and has the prototypical body. He's just not tough. Unfortunately, as Lapham says that's the one thing you can't teach. His problem may just be unfixable. We're going to have to endure finding out this year.

Fisher sounds like he's on his back just as much if not more than Cedric. He's the opposite of a Bengal RT. He's gotta work to be big, unlike Andre or Willie, and he's still not close to their sheer mass. It's like they tried to fix something that wasn't broken when they selected this undersized tackle form a pop-gun offense in a finesse conference. The SEC hogs never let them down, and they should've stuck with them.

Andre was a classic Bengal move. Spent former player on the cheap. He sucked and couldn't get on the field last year. Naturally, they know better than everyone else and see something nobody else does, lol.

If things don't shape up, I'd like to see Tre Hopkins start at RG, Andre given a shot at RT, and Ogbuehi/Fisher fight for the LT spot. Andre may be on the back end, but perhaps they could squeeze some effectiveness out of him at a familiar position rather than making him learn something totally foreign.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-06-2017, 03:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I say with all due respect, drafting any OT in round 2 or later in the 2017 draft was not a pick for 2017, but for the future as in 2018 or beyond. Cam Robinson is struggling mightily in Jags camp and likely will be bad in 2017 as well.

A healthy Mixon could be Zeke Elliott type result for us in 2017 making us a much better team in 2017, a Cam Robinson is a future pick and not ready to be a good tackle just yet in the NFL in my humble opinion

I think people often underestimate what a very good back can do for an offensive line. Too many people think there has to be decent holes there for a back to gain yards. That's not the case with elite backs. 

[Atomic Orange]

So our defense is going to be really good then. Thought so.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-06-2017, 07:17 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think people often underestimate what a very good back can do for an offensive line. Too many people think there has to be decent holes there for a back to gain yards. That's not the case with elite backs. 

cough *horseshit* cough, unless they are like Barry Sanders.  Seriously, just how long do you think it will take teams to be onto what the Bengals are trying to sell?  Even Corey Dillon had the advantage of a top notch OL. Even the best athlete is only one missed block from losing a knee. 

The only thing that will make an offense with a poor OL successful is to have superior play at QB, and impeccable play calling by the OC, to keep the defense always guessing what's next.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-06-2017, 08:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: cough *horseshit* cough, unless they are like Barry Sanders.  Seriously, just how long do you think it will take teams to be onto what the Bengals are trying to sell?  Even Corey Dillon had the advantage of a top notch OL. Even the best athlete is only one missed block from losing a knee. 

The only thing that will make an offense with a poor OL successful is to have superior play at QB, and impeccable play calling by the OC, to keep the defense always guessing what's next.

No.

If you have GamePass, go back and watch some games last year and then tell me you can't believe how many open holes were missed. I've made it a point to do that for the last 2 years running because of all the Hill talk. There are plenty of holes there to take advantage of with a good runner. 

Did the line get magically better whenever Burkhead got an opportunity to carry the rock? Did they decide to play harder for him than Hill?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-06-2017, 08:24 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No.

If you have GamePass, go back and watch some games last year and then tell me you can't believe how many open holes were missed. I've made it a point to do that for the last 2 years running because of all the Hill talk. There are plenty of holes there to take advantage of with a good runner. 

Did the line get magically better whenever Burkhead got an opportunity to carry the rock? Did they decide to play harder for him than Hill?

Fair point, indeed.  But last year, we were thought to have a "premium" OL, heading into the season.  So, if the backs weren't hitting the holes that were there, was that a coaching failure?  Because it seemed to go on, all season. (and I don't intend that in a pessimistic voice)

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-06-2017, 08:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Fair point, indeed.  But last year, we were thought to have a "premium" OL, heading into the season.  So, if the backs weren't hitting the holes that were there, was that a coaching failure?  Because it seemed to go on, all season.

Well, the line did seem to 'fall off a cliff' last year, compared to the several seasons before it. I think i was more disgusted with the overall crappiness of the season to care why. I can honestly say, i don't make much of an effort to try and remember anything about last year. During the year, i did go back and watch to see if holes were there...i'm pretty sure there was a point, during a 'bad oline' thread where i went back and watched to see if it was the line or the backs and i seem to recall my personal observation was that it was a whole lot on the back(s).

Personally, i just believe a line can be "good" for more than one reason. And to me, one of those reasons is, a good back finding the holes. 

I'm not willing to predict Mixon will make the line look good...or the line will somehow gel and they'll be a top 5-8 unit again...

I just think they were given more flak than they deserved (and they deserved a lot) last season. 

[BonnieBengal]

They are our biggest concern. I'll wait til the preseason games to judge, but I'm not hopeful.