Elliot struggled again today in the scrimmage

[grampahol]

I'm not too worried about either kicker. Bullock has some experience and seems pretty good and Elliott is still learning the fine details. Both will be better than Nuggent was so either way I think we'll be just fine and although it's really tough to believe I have been wrong more than once in my lifetime. I can almost feel everyone's shocked expressions knowing I've been wrong multiple times in my life. Trust me. You'll survive through it. 

[BonnieBengal]

(08-05-2017, 03:08 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Based on a series of tweets from Hobson, Elliott having a rough day while Bullock has looked pretty good. (I apologize in advance for just having quotes, I'm not very copy-and-paste, Twitter-efficient)

"Bullock from 39 good"

"Elliott from 52 wide left"

"Elliott misses extra point wide right, which just became a storyline"

"Bullock hits from 52 and you officially have your first buzz of training camp"

That's concerning... Sounds like Elliott has a case of the Nugents before his first season even kicked off. Let's hope he can relax a bit and get it together 

It's still early and Elliott is a rookie.  Bullock has already proven he cracks under pressure.

[Steve]

(08-06-2017, 12:29 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: 5th rounders don;t usually make an impact and are probably gone 50 percent of the time within a couple years.. i think you can relax a bit on the outrage  .... and i could care less what Gonzales does if he makes the team.. it is what Bullock or Elliot does for us that will matter for me.  

I see a problem w/ your statement....
if we paly the Browns & Gonzales kicks a few 50+ yard field goals while we can only make 45 yard or less field goals & we lose by a few points there lies the rub....

why would we pick a lower ranked guy in the first place....??
just seemed like everyone on Earth who knew anything said Gonzalez was the #1 kicker....period....except our war room....
so we pick Elliot in rd #5
while the Browns get the #1 ranked kicker in rd #7....
it just doesn't make sense.....
Elliot may be fine on 25 to 4o yard field goals but in todays NFL a kicker has to make field goals from 50+ & it seems to me that's Gonzalez not Elliot...but it may not matter b/c Elliot probably can't even win the job anyway....Bullock will win the job & Elliot will be cut....
overall I liked our 2017 draft....except this rd #5 pick.....

[Steve]

(08-06-2017, 06:32 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: It's still early and Elliott is a rookie.  Bullock has already proven he cracks under pressure.

FYI
Bullock missed one FG last year & it was due to a bad snap....
so where's this cracking under pressure stuff...?

[CageTheBengal]

Gotta wonder why we didn't sign Robbie Gould.

[Pat5775]

(08-06-2017, 11:31 AM)Steve Wrote: I see a problem w/ your statement....
if we paly the Browns & Gonzales kicks a few 50+ yard field goals while we can only make 45 yard or less field goals & we lose by a few points there lies the rub....

why would we pick a lower ranked guy in the first place....??
just seemed like everyone on Earth who knew anything said Gonzalez was the #1 kicker....period....except our war room....
so we pick Elliot in rd #5
while the Browns get the #1 ranked kicker in rd #7....
it just doesn't make sense.....
Elliot may be fine on 25 to 4o yard field goals but in todays NFL a kicker has to make field goals from 50+ & it seems to me that's Gonzalez not Elliot...but it may not matter b/c Elliot probably can't even win the job anyway....Bullock will win the job & Elliot will be cut....
overall I liked our 2017 draft....except this rd #5 pick.....

Bingo. I remember going into round 5 many of us (myself included) were hoping for a kicker. The first 4 rounds were nothing short of amazing, and from that point on I didn't really care how the draft went. We all knew kicker was a position of need, and when our time came to pick the consensus #1 kicker was still on the board... Imagine my surprise when we did take a kicker, but it was someone I never heard of.

At the time, I wasn't too upset. Many on here convinced me to trust our staff with this pick. I wanted to, and I still do... But I don't. I think we made a big mistake with Elliott. Gonzalez is tearing it up with Cleveland, and Elliott very well may not even make our team. That would be a real kick in the nads. Bullock may be decent for a year or two, but we may have been set for the next decade at kicker with Gonzalez.

Of course, it's still VERY early and time will tell how the two pan out. But right now, I'm not too confident things will work out in our favor. 

Please prove me wrong, Elliott 

[Pat5775]

(08-06-2017, 11:38 AM)Steve Wrote: FYI
Bullock missed one FG last year & it was due to a bad snap....
so where's this cracking under pressure stuff...?

I think he had some trouble in Pittsburgh before that. That missed kick in Houston obviously wasn't his fault so she can't be talking about that

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-05-2017, 09:10 PM)BoBengal Wrote: If you remember (as mentioned above), Bullock's lone miss of the season was because our own Coaching Staff changed to a "delayed snap count" when Houston called a time-out to "ice the kicker"... unfortunately, our Coaches didn't communicate and forgot to tell our kicker who was still out in the middle of the field trying to stay focused.  He then jumped early and tried to stop but was too late, then had to kick when the snap process started.  The whole snap-hold-kick operation was an out-of-sync mess, which sucked because he made from that spot earlier in the game.

Bullock had a good season with us last year and appears to be continuing those successful efforts into the pre-season of 2017.  I have my money on the NFL-proven Bullock to win this job.

You are saying that whole situation was unintentional...I almost could say it was intentional.  Regardless, he has been solid, but for some reason I am pulling for Elliott. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-05-2017, 11:00 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: A pick for a kicker, yea, I'd prefer they make the team haha. Because spending a pick on a kicker when so many of the most successful kickers in the NFL went undrafted just feels...wasteful. You spent a pick on a kicker because you were absolutely positive he was an elite kicker.
If that's not how you felt about him, you never should have spent a pick on him.

Let's not forget FA....They would have Elliott for cheap for four years.  I have no idea what Bullock gets paid, but at one point we were paying Nugent a pretty good chunk of cap changes. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-06-2017, 11:47 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Gotta wonder why we didn't sign Robbie Gould.

Money

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-06-2017, 11:47 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Bingo. I remember going into round 5 many of us (myself included) were hoping for a kicker. The first 4 rounds were nothing short of amazing, and from that point on I didn't really care how the draft went. We all knew kicker was a position of need, and when our time came to pick the consensus #1 kicker was still on the board... Imagine my surprise when we did take a kicker, but it was someone I never heard of.

At the time, I wasn't too upset. Many on here convinced me to trust our staff with this pick. I wanted to, and I still do... But I don't. I think we made a big mistake with Elliott. Gonzalez is tearing it up with Cleveland, and Elliott very well may not even make our team. That would be a real kick in the nads. Bullock may be decent for a year or two, but we may have been set for the next decade at kicker with Gonzalez.

Of course, it's still VERY early and time will tell how the two pan out. But right now, I'm not too confident things will work out in our favor. 

Please prove me wrong, Elliott 

Guys there were a lot of reasons they went with Elliott over Gonzalez.  

Elliott peformed extremely well in a similar climate, while at Memphis, playing in that conference.  Gonzalez is also OCD, and while I can sympathize (ADD and OCD), as a coach of another team, I would immediately do things to mess with his routine.  Ice him on his first attempt.  Line up in a weird formation.  Make tons of noise.  Anything to possibly throw him off his game.  

That may sound cruel, but I know teams will do it.

Elliott's pro day was one of the most impressive kicking displays I have ever seen.  He was kicking balls that would have been good from over 60 yards.  

The Bengals did a lot of vetting of these two players and we have to trust their process.  I am pulling for Elliott to become our kicker for the next decade.  Nothing against Bullock, but this is his 8th year in the league.  Whatever contract he has would likely be for a short term and then he would want much more.  Elliott would be under a rookie deal for four years for next to nothing and he is a rookie.  I would like to see the young guy grow and develop with this young team. 

[Big Boss]

We still have a month and four preseason games to go. Hopefully this was just one off-day, but even if it was let the best man win.

[BonnieBengal]

(08-06-2017, 11:38 AM)Steve Wrote: FYI
Bullock missed one FG last year & it was due to a bad snap....
so where's this cracking under pressure stuff...?

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/12/25/14077728/george-iloka-and-carlos-dunlap-react-to-bengals-loss-to-texans  That game ender against the Texans appeared to be his fault to me.  And the comment from Peko in this article seemed to blame him as well.  He missed a game ender.  How many times are we going to excuse that with how many kickers?  

Elliott missed some kicks in practice.  Let's see how he does in a real pressure situation.

[*psychdoctor*]

I would think that the kicker Elliott would have to miss egregiously during the preseason for him not to make the team. It is not Mike Brown style to draft a 5th rounder and cut him, he simply does not do this.

With that said, I have to trust coach Simmons on this one in drafting Elliot in the 5th round. It still bothers me they did not take Gonzalez but I just have to trust the coaches on this one.
I know Elliott has a good demeanor and Missed kicks does not get under his skin.

[BonnieBengal]

(08-06-2017, 03:11 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I would think that the kicker Elliott would have to miss egregiously during the preseason for him not to make the team. It is not Mike Brown style to draft a 5th rounder and cut him, he simply does not do this.

With that said, I have to trust coach Simmons on this one in drafting Elliot in the 5th round.  It still bothers me they did not take Gonzalez but I just have to trust the coaches on this one.
I know Elliott has a good demeanor and Missed kicks does not get under his skin.

Agreed.  We need to stick with Elliott. The team would not have drafted a kicker if they were happy with Bullock.

[BoBengal]

(08-06-2017, 11:49 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: I think he had some trouble in Pittsburgh before that. That missed kick in Houston obviously wasn't his fault so she can't be talking about that

I had to do some digging but it looks like Bullock did great in Pittsburgh, but had another (injured) guy under contract.  Bullock played (1) game with the the guys in Black-and-Yellow last season and was given the game ball by Mike Tomlin for his performance:

"...Bullock kicks Steelers to Win."
"...Bullock gets game ball."

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/LOOK-Randy-Bullock-sends-classy-message-to-Steelers-49756901

Stats from the game:
100% Field Goals (3/3 from 34, 38, 44 yards in a stadium that is notoriously tough on kickers)
100% PATs (1/1)
3 Touchbacks


It also looks like Bullock is currently the 32nd most accurate place kicker in NFL HISTORY (i.e. all-time according to ProFootballReference).  A quick google search shows that Bullock has made Game Winners in BIG games and against BIG teams like the 49ers, Patriots, etc. in recent years.  

This is a no-brainer:  As Bengals fans, we all want the (still young with ~5 years experience) NFL-proven guy as our kicker instead of the kiddo from small school Memphis that appears to be getting a head-case of the shanks kicking in front of a few fans at a scrimmage and practices.  Elliot is going to have to REALLY step up his game for the coaches to even think twice about this one.  The staff rolled the dice on a kicker, but it looks like we may have had our guy on the roster already... one that did well as a Bengal and helped us after the Mike-Nugent-debacle last season.  [As mentioned in the post above, if we all agree not to hold the only missed kick against Bullock because of the miscommunication -- the guy was 100% on PATs and 100% on field goals for us, and has a cannon of a leg).]

[Pat5775]

(08-06-2017, 06:26 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Agreed.  We need to stick with Elliott.  The team would not have drafted a kicker if they were happy with Bullock.

Disagree. We do not need to stick with Elliott if they're giving both him and bullock a fair competition in training camp/preseason (which is why I believe they drafted him in the first place). If bullock is the better kicker we absolutely have to roll with him. We cannot afford another season with a s*** kicker shanking everything in sight. See below 

 

(08-06-2017, 09:49 PM)BoBengal Wrote: I had to do some digging but it looks like Bullock did great in Pittsburgh, but had another (injured) guy under contract.  Bullock played (1) game with the the guys in Black-and-Yellow last season and was given the game ball by Mike Tomlin for his performance:

"...Bullock kicks Steelers to Win."
"...Bullock gets game ball."

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/LOOK-Randy-Bullock-sends-classy-message-to-Steelers-49756901

Stats from the game:
100% Field Goals (3/3 from 34, 38, 44 yards in a stadium that is notoriously tough on kickers)
100% PATs (1/1)
3 Touchbacks


It also looks like Bullock is currently the 32nd most accurate place kicker in NFL HISTORY (i.e. all-time according to ProFootballReference).  A quick google search shows that Bullock has made Game Winners in BIG games and against BIG teams like the 49ers, Patriots, etc. in recent years.  

This is a no-brainer:  As Bengals fans, we all want the (still young with ~5 years experience) NFL-proven guy as our kicker instead of the kiddo from small school Memphis that appears to be getting a head-case of the shanks kicking in front of a few fans at a scrimmage and practices.  Elliot is going to have to REALLY step up his game for the coaches to even think twice about this one.  The staff rolled the dice on a kicker, but it looks like we may have had our guy on the roster already... one that did well as a Bengal and helped us after the Mike-Nugent-debacle last season.  [As mentioned in the post above, if we all agree not to hold the only missed kick against Bullock because of the miscommunication -- the guy was 100% on PATs and 100% on field goals for us, and has a cannon of a leg).]

Thanks for the info. Making me feel a lot better about bullock and a little worse about Elliott. The way I look at it is if he's missing kicks in practice and in a meaningless scrimmage, what will he do in the waning moments in the fourth quarter, down by 2 against Pittsburgh? In that scenario, I'd much rather have bullock than a rookie shankapotamus.

And yes, of course it's early and Elliott hasn't even played in a preseason game yet. But if things continue the way they are now we would be beyond stupid to keep Elliott over bullock.

[*Nately120*]

So far taking Elliot over Gonzalez was a bad move. Keeping Elliot because we took him over Gonzalez could be a one-two punch. That pick is gone, so if Bullock is better just keep him. Please.

[BonnieBengal]

(08-06-2017, 09:49 PM)BoBengal Wrote: I had to do some digging but it looks like Bullock did great in Pittsburgh, but had another (injured) guy under contract.  Bullock played (1) game with the the guys in Black-and-Yellow last season and was given the game ball by Mike Tomlin for his performance:

"...Bullock kicks Steelers to Win."
"...Bullock gets game ball."

http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/LOOK-Randy-Bullock-sends-classy-message-to-Steelers-49756901

Stats from the game:
100% Field Goals (3/3 from 34, 38, 44 yards in a stadium that is notoriously tough on kickers)
100% PATs (1/1)
3 Touchbacks


It also looks like Bullock is currently the 32nd most accurate place kicker in NFL HISTORY (i.e. all-time according to ProFootballReference).  A quick google search shows that Bullock has made Game Winners in BIG games and against BIG teams like the 49ers, Patriots, etc. in recent years.  

This is a no-brainer:  As Bengals fans, we all want the (still young with ~5 years experience) NFL-proven guy as our kicker instead of the kiddo from small school Memphis that appears to be getting a head-case of the shanks kicking in front of a few fans at a scrimmage and practices.  Elliot is going to have to REALLY step up his game for the coaches to even think twice about this one.  The staff rolled the dice on a kicker, but it looks like we may have had our guy on the roster already... one that did well as a Bengal and helped us after the Mike-Nugent-debacle last season.  [As mentioned in the post above, if we all agree not to hold the only missed kick against Bullock because of the miscommunication -- the guy was 100% on PATs and 100% on field goals for us, and has a cannon of a leg).]

Bullock played one game in Pittsburgh before their regular kicker came back.  http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15091/randy-bullock  His stats are at the link.  He played one game for the Giants in 2016 and missed one extra point.  He made no field goal attempts in that game and was 2 of 3 on extra points.  He made all his kicks in one game for Pittsburgh.  But he only played a total of 5 games in 2016 with three different teams.  He played 11 games in 2015 with two different teams.  In seasons where he played every game, we have to go back to 2013 and 2014.  He was 25 of 35 in 2013 and 30 of 35 for FGAs in 2014.  I want to see what Elliot's got.  

[BonnieBengal]

(08-06-2017, 10:55 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Disagree. We do not need to stick with Elliott if they're giving both him and bullock a fair competition in training camp/preseason (which is why I believe they drafted him in the first place). If bullock is the better kicker we absolutely have to roll with him. We cannot afford another season with a s*** kicker shanking everything in sight. See below 

 

Thanks for the info. Making me feel a lot better about bullock and a little worse about Elliott. The way I look at it is if he's missing kicks in practice and in a meaningless scrimmage, what will he do in the waning moments in the fourth quarter, down by 2 against Pittsburgh? In that scenario, I'd much rather have bullock than a rookie shankapotamus.

And yes, of course it's early and Elliott hasn't even played in a preseason game yet. But if things continue the way they are now we would be beyond stupid to keep Elliott over bullock.

Bullock only played one game total for Pittsburgh.  He had a good game.  But it's one game.  I posted all his stats above.  He's so-so, which is why he has bounced around.  And Mike Brown would not spend a 5th rounder on a kicker who is just going to be a camp body. He wouldn't do it.